Patriots | Willing to listen to offers for backup QBs

[MoLewisrocks]

Cousin PF13 Good post.
I am still putting Unguentine on the burns a few months ago when I was suggesting that Hoyer could be traded. et,tu for those who ignored it. Will it happen? Who knows but it makes sense. First I will say why Mallett stays IMO.
-He was viewed from jump street as a first round talent.

-He dropped because of questionable rumors about his off field life.

-These things are sometimes contrived by Teams hoping to get a better Draft slot positioning for said player

-or by a rival players' agent who would rather his client got more money over a Mallett let's say.

-Of course we know the media would never lie to make a story.

-BB personally spent time with this kid talking football, game situation and plays...... and yet there was no way BB was going to get this kid because he was gone in Round one right? as some had predicted.........Hmmmm. Why would BB noodle with this kid?

-Does anyone know if BB spent a day with Brady?

-Not once did BB ever bring this kids' outside of football issue as a negative the Pats were willing to deal with to put out any media fires.

-He is also a coaches son and loves the sport which is a BB check on the box score.

-Four years is just about right that BB grooms him for TBs job.

-Let's face it. He has more talent than Hoyer

-Rumor had it the Dolphins were playing a chicken game to see how low they could get him.

Mallett has more tools than Ponder and Locker who went round one. He has more talent than Dalton and Kaepernick in Round two. He might have a better arm and a pure passer than Newton.

Those who say he does not fit the Pats system. What? Not smart enough? He had a 26 Wunderlc score. Brady had a 33 but Tony Romo is much smarter with a 37...............? Here are more examples:
Peyton Manning 28
Drew Brees 28
Joe Flacco 27
Carson Palmer 26
Jay Cutler 26
Kyle Orton 26
Ben Roethlisberger 25
Brett Favre 22
Tim Tebow 22
Colt McCoy 25
Other Wonderlic scores of note:
John Elway 29
Chad Pennington 25

Well than he must be a bad student in school right? He maintained a 3.2 GPR his two years are Arkansas.

Well he must bee too slow. Tom Brady ran the 40 at the combine is 5.3 and Mallet who is 3" taller and 25lbs heavier ran a 5.37.

Well he will be sacked too much!
Ryan Mallett was sacked 25 times in 411 pass attempts which equals a sack per every 16.4 attempts.

Cam Newton was sacked 23 times in 280 pass attempts which equals a sack per every 12.1 attempts.

Christian Ponder was sacked 23 times in 299 pass attempts which equals a sack per every 13.0 pass attempts.

Jake Locker was sacked 19 times in 332 pass attempts which equals a sack per every 17.4 attempts.

He was a drug addict? "A report was released by Tony Softli, the one time director of player personnel for the St. Louis Rams, and current ESPN employee that stated there were “heavy rumors” that Mallett was addicted to drugs, and that this addiction was the reason why Ryan Mallett chose not to declare for the 2010 NFL Draft.

What are those rumors based on? How was he so productive as an addict and student?"

He had an arrest in 2009 for public intoxication as a student at Arkansas. Perhaps all of you posters have never had this moment?

Why Hoyer might be a bobble for NFL Team to covet rather than what is available.
-Hoyer has at least some NFL experience

-Hoyer has played against NFL speed.

-Hoyer has a better arm than Flynn

-Hoyer has had some superb real NFL coaching for enough years in BO'B.

-Behind TB served Cassel well even though he has mixed reviews.

-Hoyer cost less than what "never been in the NFL Luck, RGIII and Tanneyhill" are going to get paid, new rookie wage scale or not.

-The Pats will lose Hoyer to FA in 2013. Get something now.

-Second round is a fair evaluation for a Draft pick.

-Weeden who is a first rounder or a second is 28 and Hoyer is 26.

-Kirk Cousins and Brock Osweiler are next out of the shoot and could be second rounders. Better than Hoyer? Nyet.....Not any time soon.

My prediction is either Cleveland in the second as they have two first rounders to get some quality players, won't have to stretch for Tanneyhill, and Hoyer is definitely competition for noodle armed McCoy. Isn't Hoyer perhaps the most logical QB for them in round 2? Might not Hoyer be better than McCoy? If not, K.C. and Pioli might give BB a call. How many here feel Kolb is a better QB than Hoyer at AZ? He's not. Who in Miami is a better QB?

Again, we are basing a lot on assumptions, but Hoyer is a better assumption as any new college Draft pick.

For the future: With Hoyer gone, Mallett gets more quality practice reps. If in fact he is the future why not upgrade his learning curve.

Hoyer is a backup to be a game manager here. I think Mallett is being groomed to win games here.

Hoyer has value and certainly after Luck and RGIII he might be next.
DW Toys

Hoyer shopped himself for a 2nd and likely an expressed willingness to sign a very reasonable deal at baseline starter money. NO TAKERS. The NEP however were willing to tender him in at $1.9M because believe it or not a system experienced backup has value...even short term. It's called piece of mind. Few of you had any use for Cassel. I believe some even proposed trading him to Wal-Mart prior to the 2008 season given we had studs like KOC and Gutierrez scrambling around behind him...that would have been great...

Bill was on record saying he believed Cassel could start in the league after watching him perform for 2-3 seasons as a backup here. He was right. He has said the same about Hoyer after his first 3 seasons. But other GM's aren't listening. Whatever. He has value here as Cassel did in 2008.

We will see what he has to say about Mallett once he's had time to assess his development from his rookie to 2nd year, when they expect substantial development. Lots of QB's with first round draft grades don't make the grade in transition. If he is the #2 here when the season commences or even still the #3, he has a shot. If he hasn't improved dramatically over what he showed last pre season he will be dead man walking...like KOC. If he's not the #2 here in 2013 then we will know he was a grading and selection mistake... Wouldn't be the first or last, at the position or other positions... Hell, he wined and dined Tebow like he was a visiting rockstar - and it meant nothing. Natural curiosity and doing a good kid a solid for a good friend in the college coaching ranks... Bill noodles with lots of them. Most of the guys on your list couldn't run this system let alone efficiently. And their wonderlic has little or nothing to do with that.

It's just silly that people have to project any QB Bill sniffs as boom or bust at the instant he sniffs them and then proceed to over or under value them. He wasn't sure he'd hang on to Brady that first season aside from the fact that was a hard worker and intriguing and he didn't think he would make waivers and get to the PS and he didn't have much else to fill the roster spot with anyway. By the end of his second camp Brady had passed not only the 3 incumbant backups he'd had to grapple for attention with his rookie year and the recently signed #2 experienced backup on the roster, he had essentially passed the franchise QB on the depth chart...experience (aka contract) issues aside.

As a first rounder Mallett should easily be in position just from a measurables talent standpoint, if that's what it really boils down to... to push Hoyer off the roster altogether this season and challenge Brady for the franchise gig... I for one don't envision him doing either. And given that I don't forsee him on the roster here past this season. Hopefully it's because he showed just enough in pre season to intrigue some other QB needy GM and not because he failed to develop at all.

 

[patfanken]

I wonder if this news is coming out about Mallet and when trade negotiations become stalled, BB might throw out Hoyer instead for less compensation. Hoyer wouldn't carry as much buzz in the media as Mallet would.

Again I's ask to what purpose. Our goal this draft shouldn't be to ADD picks, especially lower ones that don't help us move up. At this stage of the game Brian Hoyer is worth more to the Pats than a 5th or 6th round pick. And even though he might be the better QB at this moment, in terms of perceived value and potential, Ryan Mallet is more likely to get us more, even though at this moment he's worth less to the Pats.

Hoyer is the Pats back up QB. Mallet is a bargaining chip who's sole value is to get us a pick that's better than #74

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm on record as thinking it was a mistake to draft him in the first place. I thought there were better players available at actual positions of need. Regardless, he's here now and anybody that thinks that the Pats can get any higher than a mid-round pick for him is kidding themselves. If that trade is made, it's essentially a loss of money (should you think of draft picks in terms of revenue). The kid was good in college. Anybody that watched an abundance of SEC football would see that he wasn't made by his receivers. He's here now and it isn't at back breaking cost. I don't see what's wrong with letting him develop in the system behind Brady ala Rodgers in Green Bay. Brady is still great but it's not as if he's in his prime years. Keep him, let him develop, and see what we have while dangling Hoyer, who would probably command higher trade value anyway.

1.) You're assuming he's going to develop enough to be a suitable replacement for Hoyer.

2.) If the Patriots got a 3rd for the kid, it would be essentially a break even investment.

3.) Hoyer couldn't garner enough attention on the market to bring back a 2nd.

4.) 40 cents on the dollar is better than 0 cents on the dollar.


We don't know if the kid's going go be worth anything. The Patriots staff obviously have a much better take on him, and the shortened offseason last year may have held him back. But, unless the Patriots see him as the starter in year 4 of his contract, are already sure that they'll be willing to gamble with a new contract (extension or otherwise), are positive that the kid will be better than Hoyer by next year at the latest, or are positive that they can't bring Hoyer back next year, moving the kid is a smart play.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If Cassell+Vrabel only nets a 2nd I'm not sure what people think we'd get for Mallett or Hoyer.

The reason Cassel only got a second was that teams weren't willing to part with a 1st AND take a $14.6M cap hit for Cassel.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

A few questions Mo

1. What gave you the impression he's inaccurate? Didn't someone post that he had a completion percentage in the mid 60's in the toughest conference in the country?

2. What makes you think he couldn't play under C? Patrino DIDN'T run a spread or pistol offense. Mallet spent a whole lot more time under C than RGIII, Weeden, and Osweiler in college.

3. However lets assume every thing you say is true. Isn't Mallet STILL a better QB than anyone the Browns could get with that 37th pick....and perhaps even Tannihill????.

Listen I'm not saying Mallot is a sure fire answer to all of Cleveland's QB problems. I'm saying that he's LESS of a risk than pretty much anyone the Browns can pick in this draft, and certainly a LOT less risky than anyone they pick at #37. So IF its Cleveland's plan to add a QB in the first 2 rounds of this draft, they'd be better off trying to trade for Mallet than use that pick on what will be there in round 2.

If he doesn't fit the system and the FO and coaches are wedded to it as Holmgren and his HC and OC are historically it doesn't matter how talented he may be on some level. Petrino did run a power spread and he ran it largely out of the shotgun. Holmgren blanches at the mention of that word... And his short range accuracy is suspect. His accuracy overall is suspect when pressured. Scouts were pretty consistent in noting that. His passing % was impacted by the system Patrino ran that led to open receivers and passing lanes. His receivers often adjusted to throws because they were open enough too. It's been a knock on all his QB's, none of which have made it at the next level despite putting up decent or better stats.

Found this interesting article on of all places Mallett's own website...

Ryan Mallett's NFL Draft Prospects: Will The Real Ryan Mallett Please Stand Up?

And we now also know what kind of knucklehead was not only coaching him but vouching for him. And quite possibly covering for him...not that I even need to go there. I just think he's not a fit here, and not a fit for a West Coast offense, either. If the Cutler comparisons are even remotely fitting Josh will run screaming from him. As will Bill eventually because mental mistakes and poor decision making are his personal bugaboo.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If he doesn't fit the system and the FO and coaches are wedded to it as Holmgren and his HC and OC are historically it doesn't matter how talented he may be on some level. Petrino did run a power spread and he ran it largely out of the shotgun. Holmgren blanches at the mention of that word... And his short range accuracy is suspect. His accuracy overall is suspect when pressured. Scouts were pretty consistent in noting that. His passing % was impacted by the system Patrino ran that led to open receivers and passing lanes. His receivers often adjusted to throws because they were open enough too. It's been a knock on all his QB's, none of which have made it at the next level despite putting up decent or better stats.

Found this interesting article on of all places Mallett's own website...

I don't think Mallett's personal website would spell his name wrong . . . twice.

 

[WhiZa]

Again I's ask to what purpose. Our goal this draft shouldn't be to ADD picks, especially lower ones that don't help us move up. At this stage of the game Brian Hoyer is worth more to the Pats than a 5th or 6th round pick. And even though he might be the better QB at this moment, in terms of perceived value and potential, Ryan Mallet is more likely to get us more, even though at this moment he's worth less to the Pats.

Hoyer is the Pats back up QB. Mallet is a bargaining chip who's sole value is to get us a pick that's better than #74

Interesting debate. Who's value is worth more? Hoyer with 3 seasons with Tom Brady or Mallet with one season taking 3rd team reps?

 

[Sciz]

We not affiliated with, nor endorsed by Ryan Mallett, nor Arkansas Razorbacks, nor anyone associated with Ryan Mallett. We are a fan site of RyanMallett.Org

12345678Abc

 

[Kontradiction]

1.) You're assuming he's going to develop enough to be a suitable replacement for Hoyer.

I'm assuming Hoyer would net us more on the trade market than Mallett would at this point. Remember that Mallett was drafted as a "head case" in the third round. While there might be a team dumb enough to give us a second or a third for him, it's unlikely. It would most likely be a fourth at the highest. Again, Mallett has all the physical tools. He hasn't even had a full offseason to digest the play book. If we can't break even for him then it would be dumb to get rid of him.

3.) Hoyer couldn't garner enough attention on the market to bring back a 2nd.

And that's a guy that has actually seen quality reps. How much do you think Mallett is going to garner?

We don't know if the kid's going go be worth anything. The Patriots staff obviously have a much better take on him, and the shortened offseason last year may have held him back. But, unless the Patriots see him as the starter in year 4 of his contract, are already sure that they'll be willing to gamble with a new contract (extension or otherwise), are positive that the kid will be better than Hoyer by next year at the latest, or are positive that they can't bring Hoyer back next year, moving the kid is a smart play.

As a rookie with not even a full offseason's worth of work under his belt, I can't imagine that they would have a read on that yet. Even more reason why it wouldn't make sense to me to trade Mallett, let alone either or both of them.

 

[Jimke]

Teams would be very willing to take Hoyer or Mallett from the Patriots
for a 6th or 7th round pick.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

If Cassell+Vrabel only nets a 2nd I'm not sure what people think we'd get for Mallett or Hoyer.

Franchised for $14 million does play into this somewhat.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't think Mallett's personal website would spell his name wrong . . . twice.

Probably wouldn't, but it probably doesn't have that data on it either...and spelling doesn't invalidate it whomever maintains it. I remember thinking just based on scouting that LeFors seemed like a great late draft target for NE simply given on his accuracy and makeup. He went to Carolina in the 4th where they were desperate for someone to save them from Delhomme and he...was cut after one season and disappeared. Never considered Brohm who was drafted in the second round (56) by Green Bay and lasted one season as the third string developmental QB behind Rogers and Kolb before being waived and placed on the PS in 2009 from which Buffalo signed him. In 2011 he played for the Las Vegas Locomotives... All that production and potential and completion %'s and plenty of accolades and somehow it just doesn't translate.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'm assuming Hoyer would net us more on the trade market than Mallett would at this point. Remember that Mallett was drafted as a "head case" in the third round. While there might be a team dumb enough to give us a second or a third for him, it's unlikely. It would most likely be a fourth at the highest. Again, Mallett has all the physical tools. He hasn't even had a full offseason to digest the play book. If we can't break even for him then it would be dumb to get rid of him.

And that's a guy that has actually seen quality reps. How much do you think Mallett is going to garner?

As a rookie with not even a full offseason's worth of work under his belt, I can't imagine that they would have a read on that yet. Even more reason why it wouldn't make sense to me to trade Mallett, let alone either or both of them.

LOL......quality reps

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Mallett has the tools to become a great quarterback in the NFL, and with the Pats he could put up career numbers coming close to, or eclipsing Brady's.

Where can I get that pigs flying GIF?

Of course an asteroid "could" slam into the Earth this fall destroying humanity. The meaninglessness of "could".

 

[IllegalContact]

Probably wouldn't, but it probably doesn't have that data on it either...and spelling doesn't invalidate it whomever maintains it. I remember thinking just based on scouting that LeFors seemed like a great late draft target for NE simply given on his accuracy and makeup. He went to Carolina in the 4th where they were desperate for someone to save them from Delhomme and he...was cut after one season and disappeared. Never considered Brohm who was drafted in the second round (56) by Green Bay and lasted one season as the third string developmental QB behind Rogers and Kolb before being waived and placed on the PS in 2009 from which Buffalo signed him. In 2011 he played for the Las Vegas Locomotives... All that production and potential and completion %'s and plenty of accolades and somehow it just doesn't translate.

nicely worded........and completely irrelevant when it comes to the prospects of Malletts future.......unless you hate the guy for some non-football reason

 

[IllegalContact]

Where can I get that pigs flying GIF?

Of course an asteroid "could" slam into the Earth this fall destroying humanity. The meaninglessness of "could".

somewhere over there........next to your own meaningless opinion

 

[MoLewisrocks]

nicely worded........and completely irrelevant when it comes to the prospects of Malletts future.......unless you hate the guy for some non-football reason

It's only irrelevant if you don't believe that college QB's are often little more than products of the system...if not beneficiaries of pre-existing circumstances. Moreso than guys who manage to make it at the next level against the odds.

 

[AzPatsFan]

To begin with, there has never been any "Curse of the Bambino." The the inclination in the 50s and 60s to ignore black and Latin players and the habit in the 70s, 80s and 90s of ignoring good pitching and loading up on big, slow right-handed power hitters caused the 86 year drought. Suggesting that Ryan Mallett will rival Babe Ruth strikes me as a touch hyperbolic.

But both team building distortions are a result of playing in a unbalanced ballpark that induces creation of very warped lineups, unable to win anywhere else. The Fenway Monstrosity is as responsible as anything for the organization's lack of success...

As to the "Curse of the Bambino" please look up the last Sox, southpaw 20-game winner, and you'll see a young Bambino dressed in the Red Sox livery. One per hundred years is far too few...

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm assuming Hoyer would net us more on the trade market than Mallett would at this point. Remember that Mallett was drafted as a "head case" in the third round. While there might be a team dumb enough to give us a second or a third for him, it's unlikely. It would most likely be a fourth at the highest. Again, Mallett has all the physical tools. He hasn't even had a full offseason to digest the play book. If we can't break even for him then it would be dumb to get rid of him.

Again, Hoyer couldn't get himself a gig for a second round pick. As for the "physical tools", there may be a more meaningless term in football, but I'm not sure any of us have ever heard it. Mallett, supposedly blessed with all this first round talent and all these physical tools, fell to the 3rd round in a year where teams were QB crazy in round one. Does that mean he'll never make it? No, but it's not a good sign, either.

And that's a guy that has actually seen quality reps. How much do you think Mallett is going to garner?

At this point, I think you've lost track of the argument.

As a rookie with not even a full offseason's worth of work under his belt, I can't imagine that they would have a read on that yet. Even more reason why it wouldn't make sense to me to trade Mallett, let alone either or both of them.

They're the coaching/scouting staff. If they haven't gotten some clues after a season, they should resign.

 

[Froob]

Mallett was a 3rd rounder last year what has he done to increase his value to 1st rounder? Hoyer I could see going for a 2nd at most but Mallett...