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Patriots | Willing to listen to offers for backup QBs

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AƟƟynormal, Apr 20, 2012.

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  1. AƟƟynormal

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    Patriots | Willing to listen to offers for backup QBs
    Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:12:55 -0700

    New England Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio indicated the team would be willing to listen to offers from other teams for QBs Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett.

    0 Comments | Source: NFL.com - Ian Rapoport | Share: Share on Facebook

    Read more: NFL News and Rumors - Hot off the Wire Fantasy Football News


    Nothing less than a First for Mallett, else, we keep him, IMO. I'm not sure about Hoyer, it depends on how BB evaluates Mallett.

    Additional:
    https://twitter.com/#!/RapSheet/status/193065501558181888 Kind of thin, it doesn't seem like NE is pushing this, more coy. It does add to the draft drama anticipation, which is good.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  2. MP-Logick

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    I mean, that's not really news...they'd listen to offers on Brady, too - doesn't mean anything would actually happen.
  3. AƟƟynormal

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    Except Rapoport felt it was more than just a boiler plate statement or he wouldn't have bothered to tweet it. I admit, I'm assuming that.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  4. Mystery Pats Fan

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    IMO, getting rid of Mallet will be a big mistake, rivaling the Curse of the Bambino.

    Mallett has the tools to become a great quarterback in the NFL, and with the Pats he could put up career numbers coming close to, or eclipsing Brady's.

    Hoyer on the other hand, will never be a great starting quarterback, but a better than average backup and will do well if given the opportunity to play in games when it mattered, not just in garbage time.
  5. Mystery Pats Fan

    Mystery Pats Fan Banned

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    My exact thoughts. Listening to offers doesn't mean they have to respond to those offers.
  6. TyronePoole

    TyronePoole Banned

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    They'd be selling low on Mallet, Hoyer's not going to fetch much being a FA next year
  7. Leemo

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    #87 Jersey

    I like Mallett but if the Browns or Dolphins came calling with their top 10 pick then we accept the offer 100%
  8. Sparetire

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    I dont think BB will let Mallet go, Hoyer on the other hand is set to go IMO. i hope mallet would stay i think he can be a good QB, all he need is just to learn more from the greatest.
  9. NSPF

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    Slow down there. I don't think it's time to start saying Mallet will be as good as the GOAT yet. The odds of him coming close to Brady's production are slim to none. However, nobody that follows Brady is going to be as good as Brady, so I don't want to get rid of Mallet either.
  10. Jackson 2

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    To begin with, there has never been any "Curse of the Bambino." The the inclination in the 50s and 60s to ignore black and Latin players and the habit in the 70s, 80s and 90s of ignoring good pitching and loading up on big, slow right-handed power hitters caused the 86 year drought. Suggesting that Ryan Mallett will rival Babe Ruth strikes me as a touch hyperbolic.
  11. Snake Eyes

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    Mallett signed a 4yr deal, so unless that Pats are sure TFB will retire within 3yrs they're going to lose Mallett anyway, there's no way in hell he'll be content being a career backup, so why not get value for him if you're likely to lose him anyway?
  12. KontradictioN

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    #24 Jersey

    You were doing fine until the second paragraph. I agree that Mallett has all the tools but lets let him play a meaningful down before stating that he could eclipse the greatest of all time.
  13. MoLewisrocks

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    Mallett fell into Bill's lap at the bottom of the 3rd round last draft when he couldn't locate a trading partner offering better value for the pick. He hasn't done anything other than keep his nose clean as the third string QB here in the year since. He wasn't impressive in pre season, although the lockout certainly was a possible mitigating factor. The new CBA doesn't help him or any second year QB as he won't see the field with coaching even in shorts until well after the draft. His value likely hasn't increased beyond the second round (late or a 2013 2nd with earlier potential) if at all if some team that runs a less complex or precise offense desperately craves a developmental QB with starter measurables and potential to be more than a game manager and is squeezed out of the slim pickins again this season.

    IMO the reasons he might fit somewhere else are the same reasons he doesn't really fit the mold here. It remains to be seen if he even fits the mold sufficiently to be a #2 here, and we likely aren't going to find that out - at least definitively - this season. I know he had a first round talent grade a year ago. But so do a handful of QB's every draft season and few of them ever amount to more than eventual JAGS let alone potential Brady replacements. Such is the nature of the position and the difficulty it encounters in transition from the college to the pro game at another whole level.

    Hoyer in his time here has become a lot like Cassel, a game manager Belichick has grown to trust to do the right thing. I see a guy like that becoming Brady's replacement moreso than some measurables talent for whom the system would likely have to be adapted if not wholesale overhauled... I know many in the fan base abhor that thought as they want a sexier, potential big armed fantasy QB at the helm here when the GOAT retires. I just think they are kidding themselves along the same lines as those who dream of Bill packaging his two firsts and more to move up into the top 10 to draft a stud (fill in the position blank).

    And just to get it out of the way, I do not hate Mallett. You can see flaws in a player or sense they are not a system fit without hating them. What I see in Mallett is another Drew Bledsoe - and while he was a productive QB who had a decade long career that started here, that was pre BB and it didn't end here because he didn't fit the value oriented, disciplined and precise, mistake adverse read and react offensive system Bill chooses to run here. While his unheralded backup did. Now, maybe in his dotage Bill will decide to dramatically alter his thinking...and adopt the talent trumps system mantra. But I wouldn't bet on witnessing that on either side of the ball...
  14. MoLewisrocks

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    It's debatable he was fine until the first comma... After that he was off the rails.
  15. patsfan13

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    This is as silly as the guy who thinks Mallett will be anothe TB.

    You (and I) know nothing about how Malett is performing in the 'classroom' watching film with the GOAT and you can bet BB is monitoring that closly.

    Mallett has the physical tools (ie Arm and inthe pocket mobility) to be a ++ QB in this league perhaps another A Rodgers. That of course would have him being close to what TB is.

    Last preseason Mallett had not rookie or mini camps and was getting 3rd QB reps with the O trying to evaluate his game off of last years preseason is silly (as oppposed to a QB like C Newton who was getting starters reps in camp).

    What has been happening in the film room and on the praxtice field is what will determine Mallett's future. Hoyer could be a QB that can help a team reach the playoffs, but doesn't have the tools to get a team to the SB or conference championship game on a regular basis. MAllett might have that upside.

    We don't know I suspect BB has a pretty good idea of this. If Mallett can become a franchise QB you don't trade him period.
  16. patsinthesnow

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    #87 Jersey

    The Patriots QB farm system is awesome, if Hoyer is traded for a 3rd, then the pats will just steal Kellen Moore in the 6th round (when they get a pick there) and groom him. I wouldn't let go of Mallett though unless it was a mid-1st.
  17. RayClay

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    I'd be interested in that press release, do you have it?
  18. RayClay

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    Really going out on a limb, eh?
  19. 37Harrison

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    What are people smoking thinking that Mallett commands a 1st round pick? He fell to the 3rdpatriots round whenpick he wasneeds drafted and has done nothing in the nfl. If a gm offers a 1st for Mallett, he should be fired immediately. If a gm offers a top 10 pick, not only should he be fired but also institutionalized.
  20. Lamanai

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    Hoyer: 2013 2nd rounder + 2012 5th rounder
    Mallett: 2013 1st rounder

    The preference would be to deal Hoyer (less flexibility).

    If no teams want that deal, then c'est la vie. In my view it is a sellers market on QBs and we are not a position of needing to make any deals. I'd be satisfied going into the season with our three QBs, possibly waiting for a TC or early season injury.
  21. MoLewisrocks

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    You do if he doesn't fit your system. Drew was a franchise QB. Just not a good fit for a BB franchise. Lots of kids are great in the classroom and study film like maniacs and still can't translate that to elite production/performance at game speed at this level. Did Mallet take more than a handful of snaps under center at Arkansas? Petrino has never developed an NFL starting QB. The knock on his system is it's so good at getting receivers wide open it makes the QB's job too easy. His size and laser rocket arm are his top attributes. He also over relys on his arm as do most who have them. Scouts have routinely questioned his pocket presence under pressure and decision making as well as footwork and accuracy. He tends to overthrow and sail balls on shorter routes. His accuracy is erratic overall, worse on the move, and while he can make the jaw dropping throw he also makes the head scratching throw.

    Here are a couple of his draft scouting reports. I ignored any who focused on character issues. Some were kinder than others, but they all seemed to see the same on field issues to one extent or another. Some felt they could be mitigated while others didn't believe they could be mitigated enough. I tend to be in the latter camp - particularly when evaluating his potential as a starter here. You are what you are. Belichick and landing here may have allowed Brady to achieve his full potential, or overachieve his non believers, but he'd have succeeded anywhere he got just a shot. He was always driven and a self aware own worst critic despite a healthy ego and fierce determination - and he was a winner even when put in uncomfortable or nearly untenable positions. To an extent he sought out challenge. Mallett retreated from challenge and sought a comfort zone and still seemed to wilt under pressure. My gut has been right about every QB Bill has ever had here. Maybe Mallett will be the exception to that rule. I just don't see any reason to believe that to be the case to date. I hope he makes a liar out of me, I'm just not anticipating it after his rookie season.

    ProFootballWeekly.com - Patriots No. 5 pick scouting report: QB Ryan Mallett, Arkansas

    Scouting Report: Ryan Mallett | Draft Breakdown

    Scouting Report: Ryan Mallett | NFL Draft Monsters

    What happens on the playing field in TC and basically in pre season is what will determine Mallett's future... And it won't be about the jaw dropping throws fans will cling to, it will be about an ability or lack thereof to run this offense efficiently as coached with limited mental errors, poor throws and especially poor decisions. They reportedly loved Gutierrez effort and work ethic heading into his second season, but he fell apart (and kept reverting to form) under pressure from a fourth round draft flyer whose game had many of the same misfit characteristics) facing a bunch of future hamburger flippers during his second pre season. This happened in part because neither was remotely similar to Brady in skill set - that is predicated on poise under pressure, uncanny pocket presence despite virtually zero athleticism, consistent mechanics and accuracy and exceptional decision making under pressure.
  22. KontradictioN

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    How is it debatable that Mallett has all of the physical tools to be an NFL quarterback? He has a cannon arm, good stature, accuracy, and is mobile in the pocket. The biggest question mark when it comes to tools is the mental tools and whether or not he "gets it". Trading him off for a mid round pick in his second year after a rookie season in which he did not get a full training camp would be a huge mistake.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  23. patsfan13

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  24. patsfaninpa

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    Nolan Nowrocki. Isn't he the one who eviscarated Cam Newton's character last year? I really believe his scouting reports now. Obviously, that was what knocked Mallett down. He's kept his nose clean. He completed 64.7 pct playing in the SEC last year. How is that inaccurate? Jake Locker completed 55.4pct playing in the Pac 10 and Christian Ponder completed 61.5pct. I thought Mallett was the 2nd best qb last year behind Newton. I'm surprised Andy Dalton has done as well he has. I'd still take Mallett over Gabbert, Locker and Ponder.
  25. patfanken

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    Mo, I have been postulating trading Mallet for the past week or so on the Draft board. While I think trading Mallet for a #1 is overly optimistic, I think a unique set of circumstances have converged to realistically think that getting Cleveland's #37 pick is a possibility.

    Benefit to the Browns.

    1. The Browns are looking to upgrade at QB and their best draft options right now are Tannihill, with their #4 pick and Weeden and Osweiler in the second with their #37 pick

    2. If Mallet was coming out this year, strictly on QB skills, would be the #3 rated QB. His character issues dropped him to the #74 pick. I would think that most of those questions have been answered after his year with the Pats

    3. By trading for Mallet, the Browns now can use the #4 and #22 picks to grab a premium RB and WR (Richardson and Wright) and still get a first round talent at QB who already has a year in the league under his belt in a great program. That would be a huge haul for the Browns at a at a very reasonable cost

    4. They get a better QB prospect than they could get in the 2nd round of this draft. So instead of using #37 on Weeder or Osweiler, they use it to get Ryan Mallet.

    Benefit to the Pats -

    1. In a year when the Pats don't need numbers of draft picks, they can use that pick to get a pick one tier up from the quality of players they will see at the end of first round.

    For example the combing the #37 with the 27 gets you to #11, or the 31 and 37 can get you to #13 Now Cox, Barron, Ingram, Brockers, Couples,Gilmore, Kirkpatrick, Kuechly, Poe, etc all become possibilities

    BTW- both the Eagles at #11 and the Cards at #13 would be realistic trading partners - The Eagles need help both at LB and the OL, needs that will be available with the picks they'd get from the Pats. The Cards don't have a 2nd round pick right now and their major need is WR and there will be plenty to choose from in those spots

    2. They still would have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds

    3.. They now are in position to carry 2 QBs on the roster (plus one on the PS) That opens up a valuable roster spot for another rookie or FA

    4. They turned the 74th pick in 2010 into the 37th pick in 2011 for an asset that will be wasting on the bench for at least the next 3 years.

    So while you are right to suggest that Mallet needs to show more on the field to justify a team give us first round pick. For all of the above, there are certainly reasons aplenty for the Browns to give us that 37th pick that make sense to BOTH teams, simply because Mallet, as unproven as he is, is STILL a much better QB option than what the Browns are looking at with that #37 pick now
  26. Deus Irae

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  27. Deus Irae

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    How would it be any more of a mistake than drafting him in the first place?
  28. MoLewisrocks

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    First off it takes more than physical tools, lots of guys have those and still fail miserably.

    He is not remotely mobile in or out of the pocket and he's not consistently accurate, his accuracy waivers depending on mechanics and pressure level. And don't point to his senior year completion % because much of that was on his receivers and their ability to adjust to poor throws in part as a result of Petrino's scheme placing them in the open. Petrino's QB's often put up impressive stats. Yet they don't amount to anything at the next level. He's a coaches kid who can actually read pre snap defenses pretty well, as could Chad Jackson... although he struggles with identifying blitzes or dealing with concerted pressure. And that was at the college level. He does well in a pristine pocket, as do they all, which seldom exists at this level.

    Reading defenses post snap under pressure is another whole level of capacity. He may be an interesting fit for a simpler offense based solely on his physical tools and the tools a more measurables talent centric team might have at his disposal. Here it goes so far beyond that with so called intangibles or hard to measure skills tending to trump physical tools or elite talent. Have so far...

    Physically apart from having the requisite height Brady's own measurables physical tools were never off the chart, although they became better than some scouts anticipated they could be in large part because Brady has worked at honing them through devotion to hard work and precision mechanics. It's easier to make an arm stronger than it is to increase mental capacity and intangibles like poise under pressure and mastering the disciplined ability to make consistently good decisions in an instant.

    What ultimately sold Belichick on Brady in the end was not only how he deftly managed to just win games without making all sorts of mental mistakes despite being continually in adverse conditions, but how he did it under circumstances that screamed we don't ever really think he's nearly as qualified as our other options. Even though all he ever did was best them when it mattered most. Mallett didn't do that. He recoiled from adversity or challenges and in fact he lost their biggest games of the season the same way Drew used to, the deadly late pick or picks.

    The players you hear scouts most often compare him to are Jeff George, Derek Anderson, one of my least favorites Jay Cutler minus the mobility (which I assume means the absolute worst of Cutler). I have heard a few Rodgers comparisons, but as imobile as Ryan is those folks must be on crack. Unless it's the strong arm and stubborn headedness they see similarity to. Ditto the occasional Rapisburger comps to another stubborn poor decision maker who gets away with stupid because he can throw on the fly and is a load to take down.

    The problem with Gutz and KOC is they were too mobile and reverted to form rapidly under pressure. Mallett isn't at all mobile, but that is about where any Brady like comparison ends. Poise under pressure is what gets you ahead here. Fans didn't swoon but Cassel had it with few exceptions - although they've wrung most of that out of him in KC... Hoyer appears to maintain it. I'm waiting to see if Mallett has developed any in a season here or if he is still even subconsciously stubbornly over reliant on his arm and easily overcome by the desire to make a play with it where none exists. Fans don't appreciate poise when the result isn't a win. Bill does. Particularly in pre season. He's looking for guys who are doing what they are supposed to do in situations, not guys who say screw it I'm gonna sling it or scramble with or hang on to it and find a way... He wants the guy who trusts his coaches and teamates ability to live to fight another day or play or down...or next series as opposed to potentially digging a deeper hole in search of the elusive big play. Patient, good decision makers under pressure.

    In big games even as he's performed well early on Mallett has performed poorly under pressure late in games. Rodgers was a little like that early on although it wasn't picks with him so much as stubborness leading to fumbles and concussions.... And he claims to have gotten over that of necessity by 2010 - six years into his career. Mallett isn't going to have the luxury of 6 seasons to figure things out and even potentially overcome his worst tendancies.
  29. DW Toys

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    Cousin PF13 Good post.
    I am still putting Unguentine on the burns a few months ago when I was suggesting that Hoyer could be traded. et,tu for those who ignored it. Will it happen? Who knows but it makes sense. First I will say why Mallett stays IMO.
    -He was viewed from jump street as a first round talent.

    -He dropped because of questionable rumors about his off field life.

    -These things are sometimes contrived by Teams hoping to get a better Draft slot positioning for said player

    -or by a rival players' agent who would rather his client got more money over a Mallett let's say.

    -Of course we know the media would never lie to make a story.

    -BB personally spent time with this kid talking football, game situation and plays...... and yet there was no way BB was going to get this kid because he was gone in Round one right? as some had predicted.........Hmmmm. Why would BB noodle with this kid?

    -Does anyone know if BB spent a day with Brady?

    -Not once did BB ever bring this kids' outside of football issue as a negative the Pats were willing to deal with to put out any media fires.

    -He is also a coaches son and loves the sport which is a BB check on the box score.

    -Four years is just about right that BB grooms him for TBs job.

    -Let's face it. He has more talent than Hoyer

    -Rumor had it the Dolphins were playing a chicken game to see how low they could get him.

    Mallett has more tools than Ponder and Locker who went round one. He has more talent than Dalton and Kaepernick in Round two. He might have a better arm and a pure passer than Newton.

    Those who say he does not fit the Pats system. What? Not smart enough? He had a 26 Wunderlc score. Brady had a 33 but Tony Romo is much smarter with a 37...............? Here are more examples:
    Peyton Manning 28
    Drew Brees 28
    Joe Flacco 27
    Carson Palmer 26
    Jay Cutler 26
    Kyle Orton 26
    Ben Roethlisberger 25
    Brett Favre 22
    Tim Tebow 22
    Colt McCoy 25
    Other Wonderlic scores of note:
    John Elway 29
    Chad Pennington 25

    Well than he must be a bad student in school right? He maintained a 3.2 GPR his two years are Arkansas.

    Well he must bee too slow. Tom Brady ran the 40 at the combine is 5.3 and Mallet who is 3" taller and 25lbs heavier ran a 5.37.

    Well he will be sacked too much!
    Ryan Mallett was sacked 25 times in 411 pass attempts which equals a sack per every 16.4 attempts.

    Cam Newton was sacked 23 times in 280 pass attempts which equals a sack per every 12.1 attempts.

    Christian Ponder was sacked 23 times in 299 pass attempts which equals a sack per every 13.0 pass attempts.

    Jake Locker was sacked 19 times in 332 pass attempts which equals a sack per every 17.4 attempts.

    He was a drug addict? "A report was released by Tony Softli, the one time director of player personnel for the St. Louis Rams, and current ESPN employee that stated there were ā€œheavy rumorsā€ that Mallett was addicted to drugs, and that this addiction was the reason why Ryan Mallett chose not to declare for the 2010 NFL Draft.

    What are those rumors based on? How was he so productive as an addict and student?"

    He had an arrest in 2009 for public intoxication as a student at Arkansas. Perhaps all of you posters have never had this moment?

    Why Hoyer might be a bobble for NFL Team to covet rather than what is available.
    -Hoyer has at least some NFL experience

    -Hoyer has played against NFL speed.

    -Hoyer has a better arm than Flynn

    -Hoyer has had some superb real NFL coaching for enough years in BO'B.

    -Behind TB served Cassel well even though he has mixed reviews.

    -Hoyer cost less than what "never been in the NFL Luck, RGIII and Tanneyhill" are going to get paid, new rookie wage scale or not.

    -The Pats will lose Hoyer to FA in 2013. Get something now.

    -Second round is a fair evaluation for a Draft pick.

    -Weeden who is a first rounder or a second is 28 and Hoyer is 26.

    -Kirk Cousins and Brock Osweiler are next out of the shoot and could be second rounders. Better than Hoyer? Nyet.....Not any time soon.

    My prediction is either Cleveland in the second as they have two first rounders to get some quality players, won't have to stretch for Tanneyhill, and Hoyer is definitely competition for noodle armed McCoy. Isn't Hoyer perhaps the most logical QB for them in round 2? Might not Hoyer be better than McCoy? If not, K.C. and Pioli might give BB a call. How many here feel Kolb is a better QB than Hoyer at AZ? He's not. Who in Miami is a better QB?

    Again, we are basing a lot on assumptions, but Hoyer is a better assumption as any new college Draft pick.

    For the future: With Hoyer gone, Mallett gets more quality practice reps. If in fact he is the future why not upgrade his learning curve.

    Hoyer is a backup to be a game manager here. I think Mallett is being groomed to win games here.

    Hoyer has value and certainly after Luck and RGIII he might be next.
    DW Toys
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  30. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Makes little sense to trade Mallett at this point, as they'd be selling low.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
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