Patriots' Training Camp Day 3 (Sunday July 28)

[BradyFTW!]

The difference is Dobson struggled in one particular one on one drill, not in actual 7 on 7 or 11 on 11 drills. So his analysis on Dobson may be spot on.

When he is playing in 7 on 7 or 11 on 11, he is probably getting off the LOS quickly. He might not be on the particular drill in question, but then again that drill might not recreate real game experience in any way.

I think we can safely say that, if Dobson can't beat press coverage off the line, he has to either learn to very quickly or, alternately, we need to dial back our hopes of him making any meaningful contributions this year. A big, physical WR who can be reliably jammed at the line isn't very useful.

Hopefully it was just an aberration, and he'll end up being fine at it, but I wouldn't recommend writing the entire drill off as something that just isn't important.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Seems to be fairly good news about our young receivers. Tebow can pass? I wonder what got into him?

Disappointed with Dowling so far. Him and Cunningham are beginning to look like wasted 2nd round opportunities. But particularly Dowling because with the #33 pick, that's nearly a first rounder. Beginning to think we should have traded back...

Personally, I have no expectations of Dowling. I expect him to be either cut or wind up on IR - there just isn't very much precedent for players missing almost the entire first 2 years of their careers and then becoming meaningful contributors. They've lost too much ground.

I'd sure love to be proven wrong, though.

 

[Brady6]

1.) Amendola
1.a) Amendola's injury replacement

2.) Wing
3.) Prayer
4.) Hope
5.) Dream

If you look at it like this, the WR group actually has a chance to be significantly better than the group with put out there the majority of the games last season.

Amendola; Unlikely to be as productive as Welker, but he adds some more explosive elements to our team. Also despite Welkers productivity remaining similar I do think it is fair to say he was not the same level player as in years past, still one of the best but still not the same.

Dobson; replaces Lloyd a journey man WR with 1 season over 1000 yards in his 10 year career.

Boyce; replaces Branch a very good WR when he was in his 20's but his play significantly diminished over the last 2 season.

Gronkowski; I would rather have a player returning from an injury then a player who is playing through an injury, that is what Gronkowski was last season even before the arm injury he was having back and hip issues.

Hernandez; When the serial killer was on the field after he returned from his ankle injury he appeared to regress as a player, dropping catches that a player who's hands weren't covered with gun powder residue would catch.

Edelman; Still here, good depth behind Amendola, also capable of playing the Y receiver position.

Thompkin; May end up sharing a cell with Hernandez someday but for now he appears to be very promising on the football field.

Ballard; Was a productive Y TE in a very vanilla NYG offense, he allows us to use Gronkowski more off the line because he is a very good blocker unlike Hernandez.

Hawkins, Aiken, Sudfeld, Ford; TBD, but I'm sure at least one of them can provide us with some production.

I'm not blind I do not expect us to be a 2007 or 2011 passing attack, but there is absolutely an opportunity to match the production of 2012, it will have to be more of a team effort, and a #1 target by committee but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[fnordcircle]

Seems to be fairly good news about our young receivers. Tebow can pass? I wonder what got into him?

Disappointed with Dowling so far. Him and Cunningham are beginning to look like wasted 2nd round opportunities. But particularly Dowling because with the #33 pick, that's nearly a first rounder. Beginning to think we should have traded back...

Tebow has always had a decent long range passing game. Questions about him abound when it comes to going through progressions, making reads, throwing motion/time and accuracy in the mid and short range.

But people going HUH?!? about Tebow completing a long pass clearly never watched the guy play much, imo.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Personally, I have no expectations of Dowling. I expect him to be either cut or wind up on IR - there just isn't very much precedent for players missing almost the entire first 2 years of their careers and then becoming meaningful contributors. They've lost too much ground.

I'd sure love to be proven wrong, though.

Interesting comment on Dowling. Especially since HE was the one Dobson couldn't beat off the line on the one on one drill. I'm almost 100% sure Dowling makes the team. One supposedly bad day doesn't mean he'll be cut.

As far as Dobson having trouble beating the press coverage, like Rob0729 said, it was one rep on one drill. I'm not too worried. Watch the Senior Bowl video from the practices, he's pretty damned good at beating press coverage with both moves and strength.

 

[fnordcircle]

One supposedly bad day doesn't mean he'll be cut.

Well, that plus the last two years.

 

[belichick010405]

If you look at it like this, the WR group actually has a chance to be significantly better than the group with put out there the majority of the games last season.

Amendola; Unlikely to be as productive as Welker, but he adds some more explosive elements to our team. Also despite Welkers productivity remaining similar I do think it is fair to say he was not the same level player as in years past, still one of the best but still not the same.

Dobson; replaces Lloyd a journey man WR with 1 season over 1000 yards in his 10 year career.

Boyce; replaces Branch a very good WR when he was in his 20's but his play significantly diminished over the last 2 season.

Gronkowski; I would rather have a player returning from an injury then a player who is playing through an injury, that is what Gronkowski was last season even before the arm injury he was having back and hip issues.

Hernandez; When the serial killer was on the field after he returned from his ankle injury he appeared to regress as a player, dropping catches that a player who's hands weren't covered with gun powder residue would catch.

Edelman; Still here, good depth behind Amendola, also capable of playing the Y receiver position.

Thompkin; May end up sharing a cell with Hernandez someday but for now he appears to be very promising on the football field.

Ballard; Was a productive Y TE in a very vanilla NYG offense, he allows us to use Gronkowski more off the line because he is a very good blocker unlike Hernandez.

Hawkins, Aiken, Sudfeld, Ford; TBD, but I'm sure at least one of them can provide us with some production.

I'm not blind I do not expect us to be a 2007 or 2011 passing attack, but there is absolutely an opportunity to match the production of 2012, it will have to be more of a team effort, and a #1 target by committee but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I just read all of the back and forth that you had with Tony and some of the others regarding this passing attack. Obviously - it is a little early to determine who is going to be on the 53-man roster and who is going to have what role. As far as I am concerned, whatever happens, this passing attack will not fail like some guys want (i.e. Deus).

Statistically - ESPN is projecting the following:

Gronk - 70/978/13
Amendola - 74/754/7
Dobson - 41/451/4
Vereen - 48/386/2
Edelman - 34/377/2
Boyce - 18/234/1
Hoomanawanui - 17/186/1
Washington - 5/44/0
Ridley - 5/37/0

for a total of 312 receptions, 3,447 passing yards and 30 touchdowns.

Personally, when I see these numbers, I would project higher for Amendola, Dobson, Vereen and Boyce, a tad lower on Gronkowski and we have to watch how Edelman does when he gets back onto the field.

Brady is projected to go 393/605, 4765 yards and 37 scores. I think that is a tad high because of the Patriots employing the run more than they had prior to last year (there was a statistical uptick in running the ball last year).

I would expect 4,000 passing yards and between 30-34 scores from Brady which is a reasonable expectation between his five-year average and the fewer passing targets that he has this year.

Vereen is the guy to watch in this offense along with Dobson and Boyce.

I think Vereen is going to be the #2 target initially in the vertical offense alongside Amendola and will be a very important guy in the slot.

 

[Brady6]

Vereen is the guy to watch in this offense along with Dobson and Boyce.

I think Vereen is going to be the #2 target initially in the vertical offense alongside Amendola and will be a very important guy in the slot.

I agree; Vereen is a play maker who we can move around like we did in years past with the serial killer and isolate specific match ups and let him go to work.

 

[Kontradiction]

Well, that plus the last two years.

In fairness, the last two years weren't "bad", per se. They were just non-existant.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I just read all of the back and forth that you had with Tony and some of the others regarding this passing attack. Obviously - it is a little early to determine who is going to be on the 53-man roster and who is going to have what role. As far as I am concerned, whatever happens, this passing attack will not fail like some guys want (i.e. Deus).

Statistically - ESPN is projecting the following:

Gronk - 70/978/13
Amendola - 74/754/7
Dobson - 41/451/4
Vereen - 48/386/2
Edelman - 34/377/2
Boyce - 18/234/1
Hoomanawanui - 17/186/1
Washington - 5/44/0
Ridley - 5/37/0

for a total of 312 receptions, 3,447 passing yards and 30 touchdowns.

Personally, when I see these numbers, I would project higher for Amendola, Dobson, Vereen and Boyce, a tad lower on Gronkowski and we have to watch how Edelman does when he gets back onto the field.

Brady is projected to go 393/605, 4765 yards and 37 scores. I think that is a tad high because of the Patriots employing the run more than they had prior to last year (there was a statistical uptick in running the ball last year).

I would expect 4,000 passing yards and between 30-34 scores from Brady which is a reasonable expectation between his five-year average and the fewer passing targets that he has this year.

Vereen is the guy to watch in this offense along with Dobson and Boyce.

I think Vereen is going to be the #2 target initially in the vertical offense alongside Amendola and will be a very important guy in the slot.

Interesting, so either ESPN thinks Ballard and Jenkins don't make the team, OR, they are going to have ZERO receptions between them all season.

 

[belichick010405]

Interesting, so either ESPN thinks Ballard and Jenkins don't make the team, OR, they are going to have ZERO receptions between them all season.

Same goes for Fells.....

 

[goheels22002]

Great post. I just hope fnord doesn't say I'm "riding your richard".
My question is, is Edelperson walking around like Gronk? Is Armistead?

I did not see Edelman. I can't say about Armstead. I have no idea what he looks like. Maybe somebody else spotted them.

 

[goheels22002]

Great write overall GH!

I was wondering on the subject of DT's if anyone has heard any rumors pertaining to John Drew? He seemed like a really interesting prospect, I know he had off the field problems.

John Drew is still a free agent. He's got two strikes against him. 1) He fired a handgun on campus as a freshman, and 2) he went to Duke.

 

[Brady6]

I did not see Edelman. I can't say about Armstead. I have no idea what he looks like. Maybe somebody else spotted them.

Checking in on Armond Armstead - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Anybody have any feedback on how Fortson has looked as the 3rd DT?

 

[Brady6]

Same goes for Fells.....

I really think its a negative if Fells makes this roster, he is going to be 30 years old in the first month of the season and at his best he is a JAG. I want 2-3 of these players; Hoomanawanui (age 25), Ballard (age 25), Sudfeld (age 24), or Ford (age 23) to make up the depth chart behind Gronkowski.

My preference would be as listed below.

Gronkowski
Ballard
Sudfeld
Ford

 

[Rob0729]

I think we can safely say that, if Dobson can't beat press coverage off the line, he has to either learn to very quickly or, alternately, we need to dial back our hopes of him making any meaningful contributions this year. A big, physical WR who can be reliably jammed at the line isn't very useful.

Hopefully it was just an aberration, and he'll end up being fine at it, but I wouldn't recommend writing the entire drill off as something that just isn't important.

I agree that if Dobson cannot beat press coverage off the line, he will adjust his game or become a bust. But people are making far too much of a single one on one drill.

We are talking about a drill where the receiver runs a simple go route, the defender knows this, and the defender's only objective is to knock his receiver off his route at the line of scrimmage with no coverage responsibility down the field. We are not talking real game conditions here.

I don't know what to expect of Dobson this season. His reviews of the first three days of camp have been glowing for the most part. What does that mean? Not a whole heck of a lot. It is a good start, but it means little about how he will be in real game conditions. I am still putting his ceiling probably in the decent to good #2 WR, but he could exceed that for all we know.

My only point was you cannot spin that he struggled in one drill while performing extreme well in virtually every other report on the guy into that the guy is getting mixed reviews. He is getting almost universally positive reviews. He struggled on one drill. For a rookie in his third day of camp and first padded practice, that isn't a big deal.

 

[Demosthenes]

I agree that if Dobson cannot beat press coverage off the line, he will adjust his game or become a bust. But people are making far too much of a single one on one drill.

We are talking about a drill where the receiver runs a simple go route, the defender knows this, and the defender's only objective is to knock his receiver off his route at the line of scrimmage with no coverage responsibility down the field. We are not talking real game conditions here.

I don't know what to expect of Dobson this season. His reviews of the first three days of camp have been glowing for the most part. What does that mean? Not a whole heck of a lot. It is a good start, but it means little about how he will be in real game conditions. I am still putting his ceiling probably in the decent to good #2 WR, but he could exceed that for all we know.

My only point was you cannot spin that he struggled in one drill while performing extreme well in virtually every other report on the guy into that the guy is getting mixed reviews. He is getting almost universally positive reviews. He struggled on one drill. For a rookie in his third day of camp and first padded practice, that isn't a big deal.

On the flip side, those saying that there were mixed reports on Dobson aren't saying that he's terrible. It's more that they AREN'T saying "OMG< BEST WR EVER ! ", "HE'S A STUD!", "HE'S A LOCK!", that kind of thing.

It's not to sour or dampen the mood per se, rather, it comes across as trying to temper it a bit.

 

[belichick010405]

I agree that if Dobson cannot beat press coverage off the line, he will adjust his game or become a bust. But people are making far too much of a single one on one drill.

We are talking about a drill where the receiver runs a simple go route, the defender knows this, and the defender's only objective is to knock his receiver off his route at the line of scrimmage with no coverage responsibility down the field. We are not talking real game conditions here.

I don't know what to expect of Dobson this season. His reviews of the first three days of camp have been glowing for the most part. What does that mean? Not a whole heck of a lot. It is a good start, but it means little about how he will be in real game conditions. I am still putting his ceiling probably in the decent to good #2 WR, but he could exceed that for all we know.

My only point was you cannot spin that he struggled in one drill while performing extreme well in virtually every other report on the guy into that the guy is getting mixed reviews. He is getting almost universally positive reviews. He struggled on one drill. For a rookie in his third day of camp and first padded practice, that isn't a big deal.

That is unless you are Deus who will find just about anything to show that he is never wrong and always correct.

Anyway Rob - you are absolutely correct. Dobson has to continue to practice technique with his hands and shoulder level to avoid what he is facing in press man coverage so that when its game time, he is ready to address the point of attack.

 

[belichick010405]

On the flip side, those saying that there were mixed reports on Dobson aren't saying that he's terrible. It's more that they AREN'T saying "OMG< BEST WR EVER ! ", "HE'S A STUD!", "HE'S A LOCK!", that kind of thing.

It's not to sour or dampen the mood per se, rather, it comes across as trying to temper it a bit.

You have not been here long enough to even know what Deus has said since the Patriots drafted Dobson and you clearly have not read what Deus has said in the past.

 

[FlyboyPatsFan]

Video: Patriots' Training Camp Day 3 (Sunday July 28)

Video from Patriots Camp 2013, Day 3.

I'll leave the commentary to those who know a little about football. I enjoy watching it, and hope you enjoy watching this.

Not really up to par with the quality of past years as the lighting was tough and the last 6 minutes was shot with my cell phone as my camera battery crapped out pretty early. Still, if you were wishing you were there today you might find a few minutes in this to be of interest.