Patriots trading Richard Seymour to the Raiders!!!

[italia44]

Davis is friggin' insane......didn't he pay that CB osamagoogha or whatever 15m a year?.......isn't he second,next to Peppers,for salary for a defensive players?......more than all but 3 Quaterbacks?

Is this what it takes for an UFA to stay with the second worst team in the NFL?................Incredible!

 

[Bella*chick]

I'm reminded strongly of how the party line was BB making the Bills so fearsome by letting them have Bledsoe and Milloy.

We all know how that turned out.

Maybe, just maybe, BB knows stuff we don't....about Seymour, about the future, about what kind of impact he is likely to have. And he has usually been right.

 

[Deus Irae]

What does that even mean? Sure, I agree that if the Raiders have 2001 Brady waiting in the wings and a Belichick-caliber head coach, and they're able to re-sign Seymour, then this trade makes sense for them.

It means that the QB position can get healthy in a hurry. Hell, Russell has the talent, he just doesn't have the will to win. Davis will have to figure that out eventually, UNLESS HE SCREWS THE POOCH. Seymour should still have several years of top end performance left in him, barring injury.

I expect that there will be more to come, and that something will eventually make this deal make sense from the Patriots end. As of right now, however, it doesn't. This team has just significantly harmed its 2009 team for the possibility of a good pick in 2011.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm reminded strongly of how the party line was BB making the Bills so fearsome by letting them have Bledsoe and Milloy.

We all know how that turned out.

Maybe, just maybe, BB knows stuff we don't....about Seymour, about the future, about what kind of impact he is likely to have. And he has usually been right.

Actually, Bledsoe to Buffalo made that team much better, and the Bills went from 3 wins to 8 wins. It was the follow up that killed that team. Bad coaching and bad drafting are a terrible combination.

 

[patchick]

Seymour was the Patriots best run defender. Perhaps there's a logic strand here?

Yep. The Raiders had a mammoth need for a run-stopping DT. Nabbing Seymour is a dream come true for them...short-term.

As I said many pages ago, the weird thing about this trade is that it seems kind of backwards. It's the mirror image of all those baseball trades where the championship-caliber team trades away a chunk of its future to the going-nowhere team for the short-term rental of one impact player.

IOW, I think the Pats got great value in return for one year of Mr. Seymour's services, and it frees them to resign both Mankins and Wilfork. BUT...a team on the hunt for an immediate championship seldom sacrifices the now for the future.

 

[Marqui]

The bright side is we wont be favorites to win the SB anymore! That automaticly boosts are chances of winning it!

 

[DaBruinz]

I can't really see how people can consider this in any way a 'bad' move. If you get offered a 1st round pick for a 9th year defensive player who never really reached his potential, and is in a contract year, you take it.

Then there are a lot of variables.

How high will the pick end up? With Oakland, it's likely high.
How deep are you in that position? Patriots are in good shape
What were your chances of re-signing that player to a good contract? That is unknown.

and plenty other variables, but no matter the variable, in this situation, nothing will change the fact the Patriots got a good deal. Worst case, they 'only' got a good deal, best case, they got an absolute steal.

HUH??? A 9th year player who never reached his potential?? You clearly aren't talking about Richard Seymour. Seymour is, arguably, the best 3-4 defensive end in the league. To say he never reached his potential says your expectations are illogical or you don't understand the job of a DE in a 3-4 defense.

Seymour was a DT coming out of college. He was never supposed to be a Dwight Freeney "I can only pass rush" type of DE.

 

[VJ11]

The Raiders are desperate for a quality lineman on their defense, even if it is only for one season. The Patriots made a smart choice by deciding to trade Seymour, he's the oldest of the incumbent starters, and he is in the final year of his contract. The way the 2010 free agent market is shaping up, we probably would have lost Seymour anyway to a higher bidder. And this way, we clear some cap space, and we can concentrate on signing the likes of Wilfork, Mankins, etc. to long-term deals. I'm just disappointed that we can't hang on to a dominating performer like Seymour for a season or two longer. Now the defense will have to show they can play well and dominate the LOS without him. The young guys will have to step up. Good luck Sey in the black hole, you're gonna need it.

 

[DaBruinz]

For those who think that the loss of Seymour won't be felt:

Adjusted Line Yards for running on the Pats (and ranking)

Left End: 4.30 (20th)
Left Tackle: 2.88 (2nd) <--- Seymour
Mid/Guard: 4.18 (14th) <-- Wilfork
Right Tackle: 4.26 (22nd) <-- Warren
Right End: 4.41 (24th)

Which of these numbers is not like the other? Since most people only seem to evaluate defensive players for their sack totals, Seymour doesn't get anywhere near his due, because his greatest value is in that he absolutely shuts down the run. It's impossible to run behind the left tackle when Seymour's playing.

So basically, we just lost our best run-stopper and our top pass-rusher on the DL. AKA, the MVP of our defense. I get that we got value for him before he walked, but don't be surprised when our run defense suddenly becomes a problem this year. Maybe Belichick's banking on our opponents playing from too far behind to exploit Seymour's absence against the run, but this isn't going to help us win any games in january...

Warren was 22nd even though he played almost the entire year with torn groin muscles..

I'd like to see those numbers for 2006 and 2007..

 

[mossisboss]

Why would anyone be surprised Al Davis made this trade?

Let's remember Al Davis traded the 7th overall pick in the 2005 draft for Randy Moss. After 2 seasons of suckitude in 2003 & 2004.

He's done this before....and did the Raiders get better with Randy on their team....NO! Have the Raiders gotten better since Randy got traded to us...NO!

This trade reeks of desperation of an old man (Al) that wants to see his team return to glory before he croaks!

 

[Bella*chick]

Actually, Bledsoe to Buffalo made that team much better, and the Bills went from 3 wins to 8 wins. It was the follow up that killed that team. Bad coaching and bad drafting are a terrible combination.

Yes. Think the Riaders might suffer from bad coaching and bad drafting?

The end result is the same.

 

[BradyFTW!]

It means that the QB position can get healthy in a hurry. Hell, Russell has the talent, he just doesn't have the will to win. Davis will have to figure that out eventually, UNLESS HE SCREWS THE POOCH. Seymour should still have several years of top end performance left in him, barring injury.

If you think Tom Brady is establishing a precedent that other teams should follow in building their teams, then we disagree there, but that's a whole different debate. It takes good coaching, good player evaluation, and a lot of luck for that to happen, and the Raiders clearly don't have the first two. And you're still operating on the assumption that the Raiders can re-sign Seymour.

I expect that there will be more to come, and that something will eventually make this deal make sense from the Patriots end. As of right now, however, it doesn't. This team has just significantly harmed its 2009 team for the possibility of a good pick in 2011.

I agree from the Patriots end. As it stands, we now have a gaping hole on our defense, and I'll be surprised if we can manage an average run defense. Even though I know that we were only going to get one more year out of Seymour, I still have some reservations about the trade.

 

[italia44]

HUH??? A 9th year player who never reached his potential?? You clearly aren't talking about Richard Seymour. Seymour is, arguably, the best 3-4 defensive end in the league. To say he never reached his potential says your expectations are illogical or you don't understand the job of a DE in a 3-4 defense.

Seymour was a DT coming out of college. He was never supposed to be a Dwight Freeney "I can only pass rush" type of DE.

........what he said

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Initially found out about the trade via text message from my cousin who is an Avid raiders fan. I texted him to tell uncle AL thanx when we got moss and burgess. So it felt kind of like payback, we lost the anchor of our defensive line. The best damn 3-4 DE period.

Having that said I freaked out at first but the more I think about the big picture the better I feel. For starters D-line is our deepest part of the roster. We all were wondering how the contract fiasco was going to go down. With mankins, wilfork and sey in limbo, as well as the question that is forever looming where are our future playmakers coming from.

The only reason I feel like we have to wait before passing judgment is because if we win a SB this year than the trade was brilliant and we lost nothing and gained a ton. If we don't win in January everone will note the weakened rush D as well as seymour's ability to eat 2 blockers. Thus a double edged sword, this is why BB is the best I'm my IMHO. Cajones to make tough decisions and possibly extending the success of the franchise for years to come
IBBIT!!!

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't understand how that matters. Not every team in the league runs a 3-4 defense, so that statement is basically saying he's the best DE on the teams that run a specific system. I doubt if every team converted to 3-4 tomorrow, he'd still be the best 3-4 DE in the NFL.

Anyway, yes he did have a great season last year, but for a 6th overall pick, he's never been a consistent threat on the outside. Some years he's great, others he's pretty good, etc.

Steve - I had the feeling you didn't understand what the job of the 3-4 DE in the 2 Gap system was supposed to be, but you just proved you didn't. Which explains the fallacy of your posts.

 

[Patstopia]

I've been mulling this trade over all day, and I still can't wrap my brain around it. It's reminiscent of that feeling when Malloy was released. Like a cold hard slap in the face. I know things will work out, but we need leadership for this team and we keep losing more and more of it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Is it possible that in 2010 draft there will be no slotted salaries or cap for draft choice salaries either.
This could mean that 2010 first round picks could demand astronomical salaries and that is why the PATS want to minimize exposure to first round picks in 2010

don't be surprised if they trade their own 2010 first round pick

These are false statements. Though the league will be uncapped, Rookie Pool remains unchanged.

 

[Deus Irae]

If you think Tom Brady is establishing a precedent that other teams should follow in building their teams, then we disagree there, but that's a whole different debate. It takes good coaching, good player evaluation, and a lot of luck for that to happen, and the Raiders clearly don't have the first two. And you're still operating on the assumption that the Raiders can re-sign Seymour.

The Raiders play in the AFC West. Really, that should explain just how easy it would be to go from a 5 win team to a much better squad. People here are acting as if the Raiders were the team that went winless last season, and not the Lions. The Raiders won 5 games last year. The division was won with an 8-8 record.

I agree from the Patriots end. As it stands, we now have a gaping hole on our defense, and I'll be surprised if we can manage an average run defense. Even though I know that we were only going to get one more year out of Seymour, I still have some reservations about the trade.

Indeed.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, you and I clearly come from different football worlds. Have a nice day!

As for it being a horrible trade for the Raiders, I'll assume you're pulling everyone's leg.

Short term, its a good trade for the Raiders. Its a better trade if they can get Seymour to sign an extension. That being said, if they can't get him to sign an extension, then they traded their 1st round pick for 1 year of Seymour and a 3rd round comp pick.. Which makes it a steal for the pats..

 

[BradyFTW!]

Warren was 22nd even though he played almost the entire year with torn groin muscles..

I'd like to see those numbers for 2006 and 2007..

I hope you didn't read my post as a dig at Warren, because it definitely wasn't. He's a top-tier DE, who, like Seymour, sustained a serious injury and saw his production drop. I'm confident that he'll be right back at elite status this year, just as Seymour was in 2008. (I find it a little strange, though, that Warren and Seymour are perceived so differently on this board, when they're so similar. Warren's decreased effectiveness is correctly attributed to the injury, while Seymour's labeled an injury-prone lazy player who never reached his potential. Go figure).

2007:
LE: 4.12 (17th)
LT:4.16 (17th) <-- Green, then Seymour post-PUP
MG:4.16 (20th) <-- Wilfork
RT: 4.67 (26th) <-- Warren
RE: 2.63 (4th) <-- while this is more Vrabel's responsibility, I'm sure that Warren played a very significant role in it.

2006:
LE: 3.24 (7th)
LT: 4.25 (15th) <--Seymour; this is the year that he messed up his knee, correct?
MG: 4.08 (12th) <--Wilfork
RT: 2.79 (4th) <--Warren, who was an absolute force in 2006
RE: 4.05 (16th)