Pacman Jones suspended for season, Henry for 8 games

[Michigan Dave]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Convictions are irrelevant to the enforcement of the Code of Conduct. Due process was served: the NFL didn't like how Jones went about his business, and there is language in the contract that spells out possible punitive action. Done.

I understand the code of conduct. I also understand that it isn't enforced equally, which is a major problem.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Neither did OJ's crime but I wouldn't want him playing in the NFL if he were still able to. Convictions are irrelevant, they are what's necessary to lose your freedom and there is a tough standard for that . . . playing in the NFL is a priviledge, not a right like your freedom is until you're convicted. We need the sh!t out of the game, this is a start.

Yes, but the NFL is an employer. Look at it this way- if OJ applied to work at your place of employment, they would have to consider him on merit alone. If he was the most qualified candidate, he would get the job. If OJ applied for a position with my company, I could not legally deny him employment based on his perceived character. While the NFL operates out of a union environment and their employees are held to the standards of the CoC negotiated in their CBA, it doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Yes, but the NFL is an employer. Look at it this way- if OJ applied to work at your place of employment, they would have to consider him on merit alone. If he was the most qualified candidate, he would get the job. If OJ applied for a position with my company, I could not legally deny him employment based on his perceived character.

Sure you could. If I don't behave appropriately at work I can be fired. I don't have to do anything criminor or convictable. Heck I can be fired for using the internet for non work related endeavors. Um . . .

I can certainly be fired for being a jerk, using bad language, etc, but I can't be convicted for that.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Trade Asante for the Titans first and second rounders.

This is a great idea (not being sarcastic either) cause we all know Pac man left to his own devices like he has to be is screwed

 

[Michigan Dave]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Sure you could. If I don't behave appropriately at work I can be fired. I don't have to do anything criminor or convictable. Heck I can be fired for using the internet for non work related endeavors. Um . . .

I can certainly be fired for being a jerk, using bad language, etc, but I can't be convicted for that.

Yes, but as an applicant he can't be denied employment. Sorry for the confusion. Employment law is my forte.

Anyways, you can be fired for using the internet, bad language, being a jerk, wearing a red tie, whatever. But, the only way it is legally upheld is if your employer can prove that everyone that used the internet, bad language, was a jerk, or wore a red tie was dismissed (ie, there was no disparate treatment.) In the case here, I don't like how the NFL picks and chooses how they apply their CoC. Again, legally, they are able to do so because of the CBA language, but ethically, I don't see it as the right move. I want to clean up the NFL, but I want it done with the right intentions, not by making a public statement to set an example out of a kid. That's all.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Trade Asante for the Titans first and second rounders.

Tenessee is high enough (17 I think) that I'd do Samuel for their #1. Unlike the Saints at #28 who need a CB, they'd need to give us more.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Yes, but as an applicant he can't be denied employment. Sorry for the confusion. Employment law is my forte.

Pac Man is no longer an applicant - he is an employee who is being punished for inappropriate behavior.

 

[Fixit]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

If OJ applied for a position with my company, I could not legally deny him employment based on his perceived character.

Race
Gender
Creed
Age
Sexual Orientation

Those are all aspects that an employer cannot legally use to discriminate against or deny employment to an individual. Perceived character is definitely an acceptable reason to use. I've seen people not get jobs simply because the interviewer didn't think they'd fit in with everyone else, and it would affect the work dynamic.

The NFL is an employer. The players are employees. Screw up under the rules that have been set forth and prepare to face the consequences. Legality/illegality/conviction...none of that matters.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Pac Man is no longer an applicant - he is an employee who is being punished for inappropriate behavior.

Right- you had mentioned OJ. That's what I was referencing.

Pacman could argue that Ray Lewis' situation did not result in him being suspended, and Lewis actually was on trial for the death. Pacman would have what I would consider a pretty strong case.

 

[GoWhalers]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Tank Johnson gets a pass? That's surprising. It seemed like his misdeeds were far worse than Henry's...

 

[patsfanofNC12]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

no surprise they did a bad crime

 

[Tippett56]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

I would assume that legally (ethically??) for a code of conduct to work you need to advise the participants what the punishment will be for a certain transgression before they commit it. And I'm not sure that you can apply a punishment for cases that have not been proven.

But when all is said and done, some sort of stand had to be taken to ensure that future conduct improves.

HTH
Ric

 

[Michigan Dave]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Race
Gender
Creed
Age
Sexual Orientation

Those are all aspects that an employer cannot legally use to discriminate against or deny employment to an individual. Perceived character is definitely an acceptable reason to use. I've seen people not get jobs simply because the interviewer didn't think they'd fit in with everyone else, and it would affect the work dynamic.

The NFL is an employer. The players are employees. Screw up under the rules that have been set forth and prepare to face the consequences. Legality/illegality/conviction...none of that matters.

Negative. If I have a policy in place, say a policy similar to one my office holds. We refuse to hire based on felony convictions or violent misdemeanors. Therefore, if you are the most qualified applicant, and I turn you away because your background check turns up say a dropped charge of battery, I'm in some deep trouble. You can theoretically latch on to one of the protected classes pretty easily (and believe me, I get something almost daily coming across my desk like this), and the EEOC will be knocking on the employer's door. Title VII is a good place to read up, because employment legislation since 1964 has tightened things up. As a 26 yr old white male, I could have a discrimination claim if I was treated differently in the workplace as a co-worker. Different times. But I digress.

The bottom line is that I don't think the NFL is treating each situation equally. Legally they don't have to, because of their CBA. But personally, I think it's a raw deal.

 

[Fixit]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Tank Johnson gets a pass? That's surprising. It seemed like his misdeeds were far worse than Henry's...

Yeah, I don't know what happened there. Maybe the NFL is afraid of his dogs.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Right- you had mentioned OJ. That's what I was referencing.

Pacman could argue that Ray Lewis' situation did not result in him being suspended, and Lewis actually was on trial for the death. Pacman would have what I would consider a pretty strong case.

Actually, there is one thing Pacman did that Lewis apparently didn't--violate league rules that require players to report arrests. I'm not arguing that in and of itself such an "offense" merits a year's suspension, but it didn't help his case, either.

Also, as a sign of how serious the NFL is re: Jones--Chris Henry, if he meets all other terms of his suspension, is allowed to participate in TC and pre-season games; Jones is not. [In fact, he is not allowed on the premises until June 1, but, starting then, he must meet with team officials once a week.]

 

[Fixit]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Negative. If I have a policy in place, say a policy similar to one my office holds. We refuse to hire based on felony convictions or violent misdemeanors. Therefore, if you are the most qualified applicant, and I turn you away because your background check turns up say a dropped charge of battery, I'm in some deep trouble. You can theoretically latch on to one of the protected classes pretty easily (and believe me, I get something almost daily coming across my desk like this), and the EEOC will be knocking on the employer's door. Title VII is a good place to read up, because employment legislation since 1964 has tightened things up. As a 26 yr old white male, I could have a discrimination claim if I was treated differently in the workplace as a co-worker. Different times. But I digress.

The bottom line is that I don't think the NFL is treating each situation equally. Legally they don't have to, because of their CBA. But personally, I think it's a raw deal.

Just out of curiosity, why are interviews legal? It should be pretty easy to tell who's the most qualified just from their resume. You know, if the hiring process is so objective and concrete by legal mandate.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Actually, there is one thing Pacman did that Lewis apparently didn't--violate league rules that require players to report arrests. I'm not arguing that in and of itself such an "offense" merits a year's suspension, but it didn't help his case, either.

Also, as a sign of how serious the NFL is re: Jones--Chris Henry, if he meets all other terms of his suspension, is allowed to participate in TC and pre-season games; Jones is not. [In fact, he is not allowed on the premises until June 1, but, starting then, he must meet with team officials once a week.]

I find that wrong. But, you make a good point about not reporting the arrest- bad move by Pacman.

I think the NFL is more serious about Pacman because he's gotten most of the press, and therefore a sterner punishment will give the commish favorable PR.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Just out of curiosity, why are interviews legal? It should be pretty easy to tell who's the most qualified just from their resume. You know, if the hiring process is so objective and concrete by legal mandate.

Because it is defensible in court to argue better fit in the working environment when you have equally qualified applicants. Also, because communication skills can be an essential function of a job, and if someone is unable to perform an essential function of the job, and the employer cannot reasonably accommodate, then that candidate is no longer qualified for the position. Also, interviews help determine the most qualified candidate, since all applicants should be answering the same questions, which also should be functional to the position.

Basically, it all comes down to treating each applicant equally and being able to prove that you hired based on qualifications. That is why companies are required to keep applications on file, that is why applicant tracking systems exist.

 

[Fixit]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

Also, interviews help determine the most qualified candidate, since all applicants should be answering the same questions, which also should be functional to the position.

And if the most qualified applicant should give an answer that gives the hiring entity reason to suspect that they may not be of good character or trustworthy?

 

[pats-blue]

Re: pacman jones suspended!!!

I disagree with this. Goodell should've waited until there was a conviction or at the least until charges were filed. A lot of Pacman's troubles haven't stuck legally, and I think that he could've sent a better message there. I find it troubling that a player (Merriman) can openly cheat, attacking the integrity of the game on the field, and have a minimal suspension and be awarded a Pro Bowl and DPOY considerations, while this is handled so harshly. I'm all for upholding the code of conduct when players are convicted, but let due process play through first. Then send your message.

There is no "due process" for professional athletes. They are NEVER held accountable by the courts. They have enough money to buy the best lawyers and throw that money at overworked court systems that simply WILL NOT throw the time, $$$ and effort to prosecute these guys for the crimes simply because it is not wise to blow your entire budget on one of these cases. Simply put they get sweetheart deals that you or would not get because of the threat of excessive legal action.

This idiot arrived with a guy, sat with said guy in the strip club, left with said guy in the same car after proclaiming prophetically what would happen a short time later...hhhmmm funny how the guy he did not know at all DID his dirty work for him. Yet when questioned by police he did not know anything about the guy and did not help police in any way in fact is OBSTRUCTING he investigation. Still a young guy is paralysed and will be for the rest of his life.

Why should we wait for a CONVICTION? If the charges don't stick does it mean he is innocent? Is OJ? Please, plus he failed to tell the league of additional police contact and charges which is a DIRECT violation f the rules.

I love the statement "playing in the NFL is a privilage not a right". His due process is take the suspension and if convicted then take the permenant ban. Thats how it should work. I don't watch the NBA anymore simply because it is nothing but tall thugs who are running the asylum. No way I want the NFL to turn into the NBA. I like the "No Fun League" simply because I get to watch FOOTBALL not some sideshow, if I want thugs and idiots I'll watch the NBA.