OT: Anybody watching Dungy and Rodney telestrate how Tyree was open...

[RobertWeathers]

I changed the channel. Just can't watch.

Olberman in fact, does interject these subliminal political lines. Most just don't catch it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think he did want to bring him back, just not at the money he ended up getting paid.

It is silly to blame Samuels for that loss. That was one play in the game, so you can't say it cost them the win. There were other opportunities, the Giants just took advantage of more of them.

Heck, if you want to blame him, Asante also dropped a potential interception near the sidelines in that game as well.

We know that. Plus he gave up the first TD to Manning and Tyree. That was 3 shots he had at altering the outcome had he just done his job.

Ian's point wasn't that they didn't want him back at any price, but they didn't make an effort to bring him back for big bucks. And they didn't. At one point prior to tagging him for 2007 they had an offer on the table for an average just under $6M, or about a third less than he wanted and got from Philly. I'm not sure that offer was still even on the table after 42. That $6M salary nearly covers all 5 of the corners on the roster this year by comparison... and $9M covers 3/4ths of the entire secondary. Asante isn't a $9M corner, or even a $6M corner, and while some continued to make the case he was worth it to this team because of how he performed within the system, that isn't really the case as painfully reviewing that evening via telestrator simply underscored.

 

[condon84]

Interesting thread, I wish I would have seen the breakdown myself, maybe I can find it on YouTube or something.

I would have been more interested in seeing a breakdown of the line play on that fluke. Holding is always called in that particular situation, and it wasn't on that play for some reason. I also believe 1, if not 2, patriot rusher was the victim of hands to the face on that play as well.

I have probably watched that game 5 times and it is amazing how many missed opportunities the Patriots had. There were some things that I believe haven't been talked about (Brady missed Moss for 2-3 big plays with uncharacteristically bad throws, Welker did not make a route adjustment when the corner covering him blitzed, the 4th and 1 on the final drive was painfully close to being stuffed by Rashad Moore or whatever that DT's name was). I hope someday a book will be written about this game that could answer some of the lingering questions. This is probably the most painful loss any team will ever suffer and it was completely avoidable with just one break going the Pats way, nevermind them actually playing just slightly closer to their potential.

Dungy broke the play down. He was the one that initially said the Pats were playing man coverage (Harrison confirmed). Basically, Asante had good coverage down the sideline, then he saw Manning running for his life and scrambling. That's when Asante broke off coverage and left Tyree who broke off his route and ran to the middle of the field where Harrison was in the vicinity.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

by responding to this, i know i validate it. f off !! more succinctly put ? f the f off. i still cannot deal. time nor pain heals.

 

[nickdog]

That play will be talked about forever. It's the new " Immaculate Reception ".
Sorry, Franco Harris, you've been upstaged.

Yup-that play was part of what my friend calls "The Immaculate Drive". If any number of plays changes in that drive-from the almost sack to the dropped interceptions to the catch on the helmet-well The Patriots complete the undefeated season.

It just wasn't meant to be.

 

[NE39]

We know that. Plus he gave up the first TD to Manning and Tyree. That was 3 shots he had at altering the outcome had he just done his job.

Ian's point wasn't that they didn't want him back at any price, but they didn't make an effort to bring him back for big bucks. And they didn't. At one point prior to tagging him for 2007 they had an offer on the table for an average just under $6M, or about a third less than he wanted and got from Philly. I'm not sure that offer was still even on the table after 42. That $6M salary nearly covers all 5 of the corners on the roster this year by comparison... and $9M covers 3/4ths of the entire secondary. Asante isn't a $9M corner, or even a $6M corner, and while some continued to make the case he was worth it to this team because of how he performed within the system, that isn't really the case as painfully reviewing that evening via telestrator simply underscored.

It wasn't his play in the Super Bowl, it was he cost. I doubt that one game changed Belichick's opinion on Samuels. Other players had bad games.

I agree that Philly paid a premium for Asante, but $6M is average money for a good CB. Look at what some guys have signed for recently, and $6M per is average money. I have no problem with the Pats philosophy to invest more money on the lines and to not pay a premium to a CB. They win, so it is justified. That doesn't mean Asanta isn't a good player. The guy has 24 Ints in the last 3 and a half seasons.

The fact is it probably shouldn't have come down to that late drive. The Pats had a historically great offense that year, yet they only scored 14 points. Doesn't the offense share the blame? Didn't their OL, particularly up the middle, play poorly?

You can't just blame that game on Asante.

 

[letekro]

Yup-that play was part of what my friend calls "The Immaculate Drive". If any number of plays changes in that drive-from the almost sack to the dropped interceptions to the catch on the helmet-well The Patriots complete the undefeated season.

It just wasn't meant to be.

Eh, even if Rodney breaks it up, they probably still would've converted on 4th and 10. The Giants came out and put it on us. They deserved to win, it has nothing to do with destiny.

 

[NE39]

Eh, even if Rodney breaks it up, they probably still would've converted on 4th and 10. The Giants came out and put it on us. They deserved to win, it has nothing to do with destiny.

It would have been 4th-and-5.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It wasn't his play in the Super Bowl, it was he cost. I doubt that one game changed Belichick's opinion on Samuels. Other players had bad games.

I agree that Philly paid a premium for Asante, but $6M is average money for a good CB. Look at what some guys have signed for recently, and $6M per is average money. I have no problem with the Pats philosophy to invest more money on the lines and to not pay a premium to a CB. They win, so it is justified. That doesn't mean Asanta isn't a good player. The guy has 24 Ints in the last 3 and a half seasons.

The fact is it probably shouldn't have come down to that late drive. The Pats had a historically great offense that year, yet they only scored 14 points. Doesn't the offense share the blame? Didn't their OL, particularly up the middle, play poorly?

You can't just blame that game on Asante.

Let's not rehash the epic argument. We all agree that the OL got manhandled and that hamstrung the record offense for most of the game. But the fact remains that they sucked it up and did what they had to do down the stretch and with less than 3 minutes remaining they took the lead. And ST did their job pinning Eli deep in his own end and the DL did it's job only the ref was indecisive. Fact also remains that on that final drive alone Asante had two shots at ending the game with NE in the lead if he just did his job and he blew both of them. Not to mention he also let the immortal David Tyree beat him on the first TD when he was again playing for the pick and not covering his man in man.

So we're not just blaming him, just pointing out he was not worth the $$$ even in this system because he was not playing with the discipline the system demands. Bill lets the great ones guess if they earn that right by guessing right 99% of the time. Asante wasn't remotely in that percentile. So his job was to be where the system dictated, and to make the play when that created an opportunity to. He failed to do that on at least 3 occasions in that one, all important game. This thread was about the one play where if he covered his responsibility the throw is likely not even attempted. That is what the telestrator and commentary confirmed.

If a corner requires a record setting offense to cover his own deficiencies then he's certainly not worth the $$$.

 

[Tunescribe]

That's when Asante broke off coverage and left Tyree who broke off his route and ran to the middle of the field where Harrison was in the vicinity.

Asante just stopped and stood there a few yards away and watched Rodney grab Tyree, where he EASILY could have closed in and assisted with the tackle or help break up the play. It's clear as day, and makes me so damn mad every time I see it. Whenever they re-run Tyree's catch during the NFLN promo I have to close my eyes. Adding insult to injury is the fact I spent a king's ransom to attend that game.

Yes, it was a team loss, but Asante Samuel is my Super Bowl 42 goat in blowing two critical potentially game-winning plays on that final drive. The offense did what it had to do giving the Pats a late lead.

 

[condon84]

Asante just stopped and stood there a few yards away and watched Rodney grab Tyree, where he EASILY could have closed in and assisted with the tackle or help break up the play. It's clear as day, and makes me so damn mad every time I see it. Whenever they re-run Tyree's catch during the NFLN promo I have to close my eyes. Adding insult to injury is the fact I spent a king's ransom to attend that game.

Yes, it was a team loss, but Asante Samuel is my Super Bowl 42 goat in blowing two critical potentially game-winning plays on that final drive. The offense did what it had to do giving the Pats a late lead.

It looked like Asante rushed up to cover the flat when he broke off the coverage and then stopped when Eli let it unload. There's no question he gambled but Harrison still should have made that play, he was right there. It was a jump ball and all he had to do was knock it down. Even after that play, we still had a chance to prevent them from scoring a TD and we couldn't stop them. Asante is an easy scapegoat, but there were plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Tunescribe]

It looked like Asante rushed up to cover the flat when he broke off the coverage and then stopped when Eli let it unload. There's no question he gambled but Harrison still should have made that play, he was right there. It was a jump ball and all he had to do was knock it down. Even after that play, we still had a chance to prevent them from scoring a TD and we couldn't stop them. Asante is an easy scapegoat, but there were plenty of blame to go around.

Asante quit on that play, you see him jog to a stop just yards away from Rodney and Tyree, figuring Rodney had it covered. He easily could have assisted on the play. No excuse for his letting up.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Anybody watching Dungy and Rodney telestrate how Tyree was open...

Yeah.. after seeing the side view of the play it was apparent that Samuel gave up on it and blew the coverage. That said, Harrison should have been able to knock that ball out, we should have had Eli sacked before any of it occurred, and every time this topic comes up I want to beat my head off the wall.

...yes, that way lies insanity!

 

[Synovia]

Interesting. Makes you wonder if that play was the reason why Belichick didn't go out of his way to try and bring him back.

Had nothing to do with it.


Asante's history of doing exactly these sort of things, on the other hand....

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Re: Anybody watching Dungy and Rodney telestrate how Tyree was open...

The goggles, they do nothing!

ROFL Jiminy Jillickers

 

[Deus Irae]

It looked like Asante rushed up to cover the flat when he broke off the coverage and then stopped when Eli let it unload. There's no question he gambled but Harrison still should have made that play, he was right there. It was a jump ball and all he had to do was knock it down. Even after that play, we still had a chance to prevent them from scoring a TD and we couldn't stop them. Asante is an easy scapegoat, but there were plenty of blame to go around.

Blaming Harrison, or claiming that he could have made the play, makes absolutely no sense at all. It wasn't even his man, he tried to jar the ball loose, and the receiver made the catch off of his helmet. Samuel was free lancing and looking to make the big play rather than sticking on his man and doing his job, and it came back to bite the team in the ass. Trying to pin that on anyone else, or to portion out the blame pie, just doesn't fly.

 

[condon84]

Blaming Harrison, or claiming that he could have made the play, makes absolutely no sense at all. It wasn't even his man, he tried to jar the ball loose, and the receiver made the catch off of his helmet. Samuel was free lancing and looking to make the big play rather than sticking on his man and doing his job, and it came back to bite the team in the ass. Trying to pin that on anyone else, or to portion out the blame pie, just doesn't fly.

Samuel blew the coverage, but Harrison was right there to make a play. It doesn't make sense to you that someone in a position to make a play should make a play?

I mean, yes, Asante screwed up, but, Harrison is right there to cover for his screwup and nullify the play. What if Asante had slipped and fell down, does that excuse Harrison from making the play as well because it's not his man?

 

[IndianPat]

I didnot know that Assante had blown coverage on Tyree on that play. You were making 9 mill that year and you had two chances to make plays on that last drive and you blew it. "Get Paid" huh? "gotto work for it, my man!!"

 

[JFK]

There was holding on that play. The ref could have blown it dead. We all know Asante gambles. He won us games that way. Now he takes a risk and fails, we find it convenient to blame him? It's a team sport. If a guy misses a tackle and the next guy misses the tackle and the opponent scores a TD, they both get blamed because they both missed tackles. I was surprised Rodney didn't stop that completion but it happened. We could have stopped them later but Burress scored.

 

[TomPatriot]

Asante quit on that play, you see him jog to a stop just yards away from Rodney and Tyree, figuring Rodney had it covered. He easily could have assisted on the play. No excuse for his letting up.

He doesn't care about that play or the INT he dropped; he got his money - all of it.