O'Connell = Cassel?

[mcbee]

That's what nfl.com says. He has a lot more experience, but he's a mess mechanics wise.

Great.

Why waste a 3rd on this guy again?

This is a major reach, sorry.

Who cares about developing a backup for Brady, just take one of the old vets off the shelf. Costs nothing draft wise.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Prepare for the pile-on from the ball washers.

 

[Rob0729]

It is the Ron Wolf school of developing QBs. You take him in a third round and try to develop him to trade him for a first rounder in a few years. O'Connell has the skills to become a top QB in the NFL, but he needs the polishing. It could pay off bigtime if they can polish this guy up and get him some playing time in garbage time.

 

[BelichickFan]

Obviously the Patriots like him a lot to take him in the third round. Charley Casserly said many teams liked the pick at that point.

 

[DefenseRules]

Why do we spend so much time worrying about what the "Experts" think. I learned my lesson a long time ago when they ripped us for Drafting Richard Seymour and Ty Warren. Look how that turned out?

 

[Caspir]

It is the Ron Wolf school of developing QBs. You take him in a third round and try to develop him to trade him for a first rounder in a few years. O'Connell has the skills to become a top QB in the NFL, but he needs the polishing. It could pay off bigtime if they can polish this guy up and get him some playing time in garbage time.

Just substitute his name with Matt Cassel and you have the last three years of this board's thought on back up QBs. People should stop regurgitating this "Ron Wolf" crap just because they heard it on the NFLN. They will not be trading this guy for a first round pick, that's a pipe dream. If we're taking bets you give that maybe a 10% chance, with maybe a 10% chance of a catastrophe that ends up with him leading the team, and an 80% shot that he turns out exactly as Cassel did.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Just substitute his name with Matt Cassel and you have the last three years of this board's thought on back up QBs. People should stop regurgitating this "Ron Wolf" crap just because they heard it on the NFLN. They will not be trading this guy for a first round pick, that's a pipe dream. If we're taking bets you give that maybe a 10% chance, with maybe a 10% chance of a catastrophe that ends up with him leading the team, and an 80% shot that he turns out exactly as Cassel did.

The only way you trade your back-up for high round picks is when your #1 goes down and the back-up performs well in his place. I'm pretty sure that none of us want to see that happen. Let's be serious, the goal of tha Patriots is to win the Superbowl, and they aren't doing that if Brady is hurt, period. So all this talk about the back-up QB is just that talk. If Brady were to miss say 4 regualr season games, the Pats would be fine, Cassel could
"manage the game" with the talent around him well enough, to survive Brady's short absense.

This was an absolute waste of a 3rd round pick, you do realize that we are comparing him to a guy that they drafted with a 7th round comp pick (which is baiscally an 8th round pick).

 

[patsgo]

That's what nfl.com says. He has a lot more experience, but he's a mess mechanics wise.

Great.

Why waste a 3rd on this guy again?

This is a major reach, sorry.

Who cares about developing a backup for Brady, just take one of the old vets off the shelf. Costs nothing draft wise.

im sure belichick consults the nfl.com on eveything, if the people are so good there why arent they working for a nfl team??? dahhh because most of those guys , casserly,lombardi, billick,mora, have all been fired, get it now???

 

[Mogamedogz]

Just substitute his name with Matt Cassel and you have the last three years of this board's thought on back up QBs. People should stop regurgitating this "Ron Wolf" crap just because they heard it on the NFLN. They will not be trading this guy for a first round pick, that's a pipe dream. If we're taking bets you give that maybe a 10% chance, with maybe a 10% chance of a catastrophe that ends up with him leading the team, and an 80% shot that he turns out exactly as Cassel did.

GREAT post.

 

[patsox23]

That's what nfl.com says. He has a lot more experience, but he's a mess mechanics wise.

Great.

Why waste a 3rd on this guy again?

This is a major reach, sorry.

Who cares about developing a backup for Brady, just take one of the old vets off the shelf. Costs nothing draft wise.

You need to stop reading nfl.com - O'Connell is FAR better than Cassel and the vast, vast majority of people don't think O'Connell was a reach. At all. You've found one of the only sites that would say so. Smarten up.

 

[Celt]

O'Connell was the best developmental QB in the draft. He's got a strong arm and great speed for a QB. He's very raw. He will be the #2 QB in 2010.

Great selection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Hem8WbjvI

 

[Rob0729]

Just substitute his name with Matt Cassel and you have the last three years of this board's thought on back up QBs. People should stop regurgitating this "Ron Wolf" crap just because they heard it on the NFLN. They will not be trading this guy for a first round pick, that's a pipe dream. If we're taking bets you give that maybe a 10% chance, with maybe a 10% chance of a catastrophe that ends up with him leading the team, and an 80% shot that he turns out exactly as Cassel did.

Funny, a guy who was a four year starter in college has an 80% chance to turn out exactly like a 4 minute starter in college like Cassel? Cassel and O'Connell are nothing alike in that Cassel did nothing in college at all and people were in love with his potential and thinking that because he was stuck behind Leinhart and Palmer that he was a star who just didn't get his chance.

Whether you like it or not, the Pats are employing the Ron Wolfe strategy. I never said it would pay off, but it might. It paid off for the Falcons last year with Matt Schaub. Who knows if it will, but I am betting that is what the Pats are doing and they have a history of trying to do that.

BTW, just because you apparently get your knowledge from the NFLN, some of us are free thinkers. The Pats have been employing the Ron Wolfe strategy since they drafted Rohan Davey. NFLN wasn't around back then.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

This was an absolute waste of a 3rd round pick, you do realize that we are comparing him to a guy that they drafted with a 7th round comp pick (which is baiscally an 8th round pick).

No, the Pats' comp-7 that year was Mr. Irrelevant, Andy Stokes, who truly lived up to his billing. :bricks:

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Maybe, just maybe, BB realizes that he needs a better backup for Brady, especially with the less than lustrous Cassie becomming a FA next year. Tom has been hit hard and there is a chance that at some time in a season we'll really NEED someone who can play NFL QB well enough to let the players around him win the game.

It's all about W/L records and a good coach/GM should prepare EVERY position for potential adequate backup. Remember in the late 90s when Parcells had a really strong (ack!) Jets team and he lost VT early with NO viable backup? It was a pleasure to see the otherwise talented Jets team go down the tubes because of sub-par backup QB mistakes. BB was there and saw what happened to a SB contender.

 

[Metaphors]

That's what nfl.com says. He has a lot more experience, but he's a mess mechanics wise.

His OL was a mess. I didn't see anything about his mechanics that were really bad. Here is what nfl.com says:

Negatives:
Despite his athletic ability, size and arm strength, he is very inconsistent with his delivery, needing to improve his footwork, as he tends to throw off balance and off his back foot too often...
Must develop better zip on his deep throws and not generate so much velocity throwing into the short-to-intermediate areas...
Has good mobility throwing on the move, but needs to see threats better firing downfield and is not always alert to backside pressure, as many of his fumbles (20 in the last three years) have come after getting hit from the blind side...
Has good command of the team and shows courage, but gets into "home run" mindset, trying to force big plays and instead makes mistakes...
Must develop a better rhythm on his passes, especially with his footwork...
Has never played in anything more than a simplified system and must become more alert on the field, as he does not usually make quick and proper reads...
Seems to try to aim the ball rather than hitting his receivers in stride...
Might need more than a few years to develop a good feel for reading defenses, as he must do a better job of scanning the field, as he tends to look too long at his primary targets, taking unnecessary punishment when the pocket collapses...
Needs to improve his timing patterns to prevent receivers from having to adjust...
Will need more refinement in his delivery, as he does not open and close his shoulders quickly...
Overthrows at times on fades and post patterns.

When I go through this list, I don't see messed up mechanics. I see raw ability that needs to be coached up. Footwork, pocket awareness, pace of throws, quick downfield reads, repeatable delivery. Can you think of a better rolemodel than Brady for this kid?

QBs are always a crapshoot and O'Connell is no different. If he puts the work in, he has a high ceiling. I put the key point in bold above. He played on a terrible team and a lot of snaps probably looked like jail breaks to him. He stayed in control and kept his team together. That ALWAYS translated to the NFL.

Cassel was a case of unfulfilled potential in a winning environment. Belichick took a flyer to see if he could tap into that potential and take the next step. Limited success and Cassel has likely run his course with the Pats.

O'Connell is a case of impressive, unrefined skills with key intangibles in a losing situation. Put him in a strong support/coaching structure and see if he can refine his natural skills. He needs to put in the work and have the dedication to succeed. I'd move Moss down one locker and have him sit between Brady and Moss every day.

O'Connell may eventually top out at the same point as Cassel, but that doesn't mean he is starting out at the same point. I see a top-notch #2 QB as early as 2009, which is worth a late 3rd for me. He has the skills and intangibles to go much higher than that, but I'm not going to put that cart before the horse.

 

[Metaphors]

Whether you like it or not, the Pats are employing the Ron Wolfe strategy.

I agree for Cassel and Gutierrez. They were penny stocks that may turn into a big return later. I don't agree that is the motivation for taking O'Connell. He is an real investment with a defined objective (backing up Brady sooner rather than later). If Cassel and Gutierrez don't grow, you sell and move on. If O'Connell washes out, that is a hit to your growth strategy.

Cassel and Gutierrez are a no-lose situation. O'Connell carries a cost, and therefore an associated risk of tangible loss. I really like O'Connell so I'm positive about his future with the Pats. However, I'm not fooling myself into thinking he is bust-proof or that the Pats don't have reasonably high expectations for him.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree for Cassel and Gutierrez. They were penny stocks that may turn into a big return later. I don't agree that is the motivation for taking O'Connell. He is an real investment with a defined objective (backing up Brady sooner rather than later). If Cassel and Gutierrez don't grow, you sell and move on. If O'Connell washes out, that is a hit to your growth strategy.

Cassel and Gutierrez are a no-lose situation. O'Connell carries a cost, and therefore an associated risk of tangible loss. I really like O'Connell so I'm positive about his future with the Pats. However, I'm not fooling myself into thinking he is bust-proof or that the Pats don't have reasonably high expectations for him.

I am sure the initial strategy is to keep him as a back up, but in 4 years he will be a free agent and if he shows flashes of potential to be a starter, someone is going to pay him to compete for a starting job. The Pats can use him as a #2 in the short term and if he comes in a game or two and plays really well as Schaub did against the Patriots a few years back, his trade value may be far more than his value on the roster a year before he becomes a free agent.

The Pats are forward thinkers. They may feel that this guy can be a solid #2 while he hones on his skills and may be able to get good trade value in the future if he develops. It is a risk, but every pick has a risk to it.

 

[stcjones]

His OL was a mess. I didn't see anything about his mechanics that were really bad. Here is what nfl.com says:



When I go through this list, I don't see messed up mechanics. I see raw ability that needs to be coached up. Footwork, pocket awareness, pace of throws, quick downfield reads, repeatable delivery. Can you think of a better rolemodel than Brady for this kid?

QBs are always a crapshoot and O'Connell is no different. If he puts the work in, he has a high ceiling. I put the key point in bold above. He played on a terrible team and a lot of snaps probably looked like jail breaks to him. He stayed in control and kept his team together. That ALWAYS translated to the NFL.

Cassel was a case of unfulfilled potential in a winning environment. Belichick took a flyer to see if he could tap into that potential and take the next step. Limited success and Cassel has likely run his course with the Pats.

O'Connell is a case of impressive, unrefined skills with key intangibles in a losing situation. Put him in a strong support/coaching structure and see if he can refine his natural skills. He needs to put in the work and have the dedication to succeed. I'd move Moss down one locker and have him sit between Brady and Moss every day.

O'Connell may eventually top out at the same point as Cassel, but that doesn't mean he is starting out at the same point. I see a top-notch #2 QB as early as 2009, which is worth a late 3rd for me. He has the skills and intangibles to go much higher than that, but I'm not going to put that cart before the horse.

"as many of his fumbles (20 in the last three years) have come after getting hit from the blind side..."

This is what scares me.........he sounds like Jason campbell of the skins.....can't sense the rush well at times and is prone to fumble.....not sure you can "teach" that awareness.....with Brady it is like a "spider sense"...........

 

[JoeSixPat]

When thinking about O'Connell people should keep in mind that as "weak" as some consider the QB crop in this draft - next year's is reportedly even weaker.

Assuming that O'Connell truly is a worthy third down pick this year - and assuming he gets enough practice, pre-season, and trash time during the year to show he's got some NFL skills, my prediction is that the teams that have a legitimate need for QB next year - and/or those that suffer from the injury bug this year, will be inclined to offer much better than a third round pick in trade.

In the meantime, we'll see what BB has planned for him. He's aparently quite the athlete and I'll be interested to see if BB finds a place for him on special teams or even as a TE in certain situations. (at 6' 5" he's quite a target, and I'd guess he can carry another 15 pounds on that frame to bring him up to 240 if need be)

But given the weak crop of QB prospects for next year, I'm not finding it difficult to imagine some team in need willing to give up a higher pick for him (i.e. would a bad team in need of a QB give up a 2nd rounder next year for one of the better QB prospects drafted in the third round this year?)

So in that respect, ask yourself this question - would you have been happy to trade a late third down pick in this draft for a high 2nd round pick in 2009?

If your answer is an enthusiastic "Yes", then BB might have achieved exactly that by drafting O'Connell.

 

[Captain Cliche]

What I like is...they are probably the only team that is in the position to make this type of "luxury" pick.