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No more late 4th Qtr Field Goals to go up by 6

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by groundgame, Nov 11, 2012.

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  1. groundgame

    groundgame Rookie

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    From here on in, I'd go for it on 4th down, to possibly seal the game, instead of the recipe-for-heartbreak field goal to go up by 6.
  2. CityOfChampions

    CityOfChampions Rookie

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    If we went for it and didn't score the Bills would've tied it with a field goal.
  3. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #95 Jersey

    Bills would have tied the game if we didn't go for 3...you take the points. Hope you aren't a coach
  4. coolguy

    coolguy Banned

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    im actually surprised more teams don't go it on 4th down against the patriots defense......not like they can stop it.
  5. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You need to think this through. It was 4th and 9. If they would have failed there, then the Bills would have needed just a FG to tie and a TD to win.
  6. northernpatriot

    northernpatriot Rookie

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  7. CheeseMonkeys

    CheeseMonkeys Rookie

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    I agree. I also think the Patriots/ Bill Belichick should stop being such huge pussies and start going for 2 every TD instead of kicking the extra point. Imagine how far ahead we could get?
  8. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    You take the 3 almost every time unless its 4th and less than a yard and inside of the 10......they were nowhere near that deep during that play.
  9. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    Me thinks you need to put the crack pipe away
  10. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    Definitely angry with coaching for the wrong issue. The panic after the Ridley game start was almost disastrous. Run the dam ball, at least once...Lol. instead, we run twelve seconds off the clock, accomplish nothing (even my fiance called tb a ***** for not running on third...I tried to explain how slow he was but ****...she gets it more than mcdaniels does lol), and allow buffalo to keep both timeouts after being at first and goal with what, 230 left? Pathetic play calling at its finest. Exactly the kind of crap that drive me crazy after the last super bowl.


    Anyone else notice the online play pick up after Thomas stepped in? Think mankins was rushed back?
  11. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan Rookie

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    What would TB have accomplished by running it there, gain 2 yards that we didnt need fo the FG and maybe get plastered by a LB? Passing was the right thing, I think once he ****ed his arm he saw the refs hat and knew woody wasnt eligible so he dumped it.
  12. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    I had to work, so I downloaded the game. While waiting, i absent mindedly clicked this book mark and saw your thread title. I was sure we must have lost by a point, so imagine my surprise at the interception.

    Go for it on fourth and nine instead of the sure points? You see, the reason you're fourth and nine is you only gained one yard in three plays. Not smart.

    Since there's no controversy here, how about an explanation why they throw three times from the one yard line? How about a sneak, or a well blocked running play? Just a little breathing space. Nothing like watching your QB almost get killed or give up a safety.

    I do not understand these bouts of pass happy now that they've seemed to acquires some balance. Is it like a flareup of a dormant disease?
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  13. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I also noticed Tom with what appeared to be some acreage available to the end zone. You have to remember 10 yards is a long distance and he's likely even less agile than younger years. I trust his judgment. He knows if it's wide open and if not he's going to get smashed.

    I think he should save his youtube of faking out Urlacher and leave it at that.

    On the other hand, a quick count sneak from his own goal line would have been pretty nice IMO. Oh well.
  14. Arrington Planet

    Arrington Planet Rookie

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    This was atrocious, I shouted at my screen for a goddamn run play there.
  15. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    Yes the pass was the right call there, tb doesn't move like cam Newton...

    Maybe one run to force the two minute warning or a time out. I know the false start killed things a bit, but time was certainly a factor at that point. Brings up goal to go from your teens, but Ridley had been ripping off huge chunks all day...pull Thomas and hope he blows up the left side. Play calling in the rz at the end of the game was poor. Luckily, spikes is a beast. Those injuries don't happen and this game could be much different.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  16. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    At least once in every game,McDaniels throws in a retarded WTF offensive series that makes you pull your hair out.

    That drive inside their own 1 yard line was the retarded series of the day that almost came within inches of a safety

    When you face one of the worst defenses against the run and you have one of the most productive running backs in the league,it's a no brainier what you do when in deep,apparently Josh tried to be too cute and almost blew the game.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  17. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The clock management was absolutely atrocious at the point of the game that you are referencing, and I don't really care what anyone else's opinion is.

    There was a point where we had about 2:25 on the game clock and I wondered if they'd even run another play before the 2 minute warning, yet somehow they actually ran multiple plays and actually kicked the FG with about 2:06 on the clock!!!

    It was absolutely insane in my opinion, and I'd hope that many others would agree.
  18. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    If it's a more makeable conversion than yeah but I believe it was 4th and goal from the 9 which is a very tough make. Today they did the right thing
  19. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    I think the first play was a run from the 2 that lost 2 yards. And then a false start on 2nd and goal from the 4 (in turn second and goal from the 9). One could still argue you run 2 more times to get the clock down. The 2 minute warning may have contributed to the pass call as clock would have stopped after play.

    Extremely poor clock management. Almost as bad as the clock management before the half against the Seahawks when they came up with a goose egg. Grrrrrrrr
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  20. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Do you remember the field goal the Patriots chose not to take at the end of the 1st half against the Seahawks?
  21. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    Different scenario, but what I remember is poor clock management costing the Pats 7 points (post above). First and goal on the 9 (or so), 3 timeouts, 36 seconds left, and Brady gets cute and doesn't use the timeout until 18 (BB had to run down the sideline and call it). That situation was a complete cluster that should have been a TD. But again, no comparison to yesterday's situation.
  22. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Rookie

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    Any idea why we rushed up to the line after it was 1st and Goal at the 1-yard line and got off a **** play that resulted in a 3 yard loss because of it?

    In the NFL, when you're up by 3pts and there's 2 minutes and 30 seconds on the clock and you have just run for a first down to the oppponents goal line common sense tells you to let the clock run down to the 2-minute warning because yes, time is in fact on your side, go to the sideline and talk about the next 3-4 plays that you'll run to put this game away.

    So rushing the play actually caused the right-side of our OLine to be out of synch to allow Ridley to get blown up. The chances of NFL teams scoring from the 1-yard line on 4 probably plays has to be around 93%. There was no frigin need to rush up to the line to try and catch the Bills quickly or anything, not sure if that was Josh or not, but the idea is to kill the clock and score the TD, that was beyond foolish.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  23. PatsFaninAZ

    PatsFaninAZ Rookie

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    While I think it was the right decision, I don't think OP is crazy. It's a risk reward calculation, pure and simple. But I think it is close.

    The difference between 3 and 6 points is not that high in that situation. If the Bills were out of time outs or there was only a minute left, it is different. What is the difference between 3 and 6. Well, if you stop them outside the 35, you win either way. If you give up the TD you lose either way. So, the only downside is this scenario: (1) you don't get the TD or a defensive penalty that gives you 4 more downs, (2) they get 45 but not 80 yards, (3) they make the FG. And even then, all that has happened is you reduced your chance of winning to 50/50 in OT.

    There are two added benefits: you give them at least 10 extra yards to have to go even if you don't make it, and you take away their no-risk fourth down inside the 35 yard line.

    On this last point, I would love to see the stats. How do teams do in the fourth quarter in drives where they know they have four downs per series? Usually, there is a disincentive not to go on fourth. Either you give up a fg try or give your opponent the ball back. When you are in the Bill's situation, there is no risk in the risk reward equation.

    I think back to the 2007 super bowl. If Moss drops the TD and we only tie the game with an FG, the Giants punt on fourth down and Brady gets the ball last and OT is the worst outcome. Instead, they convert on fourth down. You want the TD of course, but putting your opponent in a no-risk 4th down situation matters.

    One other thing you have to add to the math by the way: you might miss the FG. On the other side, one very small benefit of having 6 is you still get OT if they miss the extra point.
  24. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    I agree with everything you're saying, but I don't think they had the option to run the clock down to the 2 min warning. Could be wrong, but I think it was more like 2:50 left at that time. But either way. When it was live, I was thinking best to pull a Fitzpatrick from last year in Buffalo. Kneel twice, try to punch it in from the 1 on third, and kick the FG with 40 seconds left (and/or Buffalo burning their TO's) if you fail.

    Anyway, a win is a win and although the play calling prior to the kick was horrendous, the FG was the right call in that situation.
  25. goheels22002

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    #50 Jersey

    Granted, a different situation, but I was just trying to remind the OP that you take the points. In one case, it wound up costing the Patriots the game. Yesterday, it might have as well if the Bills played for overtime.
  26. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    The worst part (if i remember correctly) was that on 1st down from the 1-2; they ran an empty backfield.

    If you REALLY WANT TO PASS, in a situation that 95% of the NFL does a running play on; You arent even going to TRY PLAY ACTION ????

    seemed silly to me.
  27. PatsWickedPissah

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    Disable Jersey

    I was at the game and wicked pissed at the hurry up call then. That idiotic decision was the root of the problem leading to the Bills having lots of time for a final winning drive attempt. It seemed clear that we out clevered ourselves with the hurry up there. This season our once vaunted clock mangement skills have approached Herm Edwards :eek: territory. BB has to look in the mirror and then take Josh and TFB to the woodshed on these kinds of decisions.

    It was perfection on these small things that led to the rash of SB wins, starting in 2001 with a less talented but perfectly managed team. It is screw-ups on these small things that loses ballgames by 1-3 points, the story of this season.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  28. dizi24

    dizi24 Rookie

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    You realize we probably won last nights game because we did kick the field goal, right? If we don't get it on fourth down, we're up 3. The only reason we won last nights game is because Fitzpatrick and the Bills couldn't settle for a field goal and they forced an attempted TD pass.

    The difference between having to drive down the field for 3 points vs. 7 points is HUGE. I'm usually a big fan of attempted 4th down attempts, but going up 6 points is a huge move. Even with this D, I have no problem giving the other team one drive to put up 7 with the game on the line.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  29. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    I was waiting for a reasonable response to the OP's reasonable suggestion. Considering everyone knew the Bills were going to march down the field, and the extra FG didn't change the threat of losing if the Bills scored a TD, I would have strongly considered going for it there. In fact, when the Pats went up six, the idea of OT seemed pretty appealing.

    Ultimately, I think kick the FG, so as not to hurt the lame defense's feelings, etc. But it's certainly a fair question.
  30. RodThePat

    RodThePat Rookie

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    It's not about hurting anyone's feelings, it's about what you think our chances of converting a 4th and 9 in that situation were. And they weren't very good. If it was 4th and goal from the 2, I think Bill would've strongly considered it, but we had two straight incompletions at that point, and turning it over on downs there meant the Bills would get the ball with more than 2 minutes on the clock, 2 timeouts, needing a FG to tie it. That's an incredibly big risk to take.
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