QB School's Week 6 Mac Jones Analysis

[cmasspatsfan]

Bill should turn the GM work over to somebody: no question. Whether that somebody ought to be Groh/Wolf, I do not know. I would be inclined to make a cleaner weep, but in all honesty I don't know enough about Groh's skills, nor his capacity to say no to his friend and mentor, Bill Belichick, to say. The burden of proof re all that in my mind falls on those who would advocate for the status quo, which to some degree would be the case if we were to keep Groh as GM. To me, the best way ensure we have it right is to have a full, open, objective hiring process in which Groh has no advantage over external candidates.

I think he's been delegating but still gets the last word.

 

[Thelonious]

Agreed but it would be nice if Lowe is not starting Sunday.

LOL. Indeed it would.

I think he's been delegating but still gets the last word.

And that has to end...immediately. The team is on to next year. We don't want a repeat of this year, or the one before, or the one before....

 

[upstater1]

Andruzzi started all 16 games that year.
Light 14.
Compton 16.
Woody 15
Randall 16

Hochstein and Koppen weren’t drafted until 2003. Ashworth was drafted in 2002.

I’m assuming you meant 2nd superbowl and not season?

Yes I was referring to 2003 when Sapp made fun of Hochstein.

Hochstein joined in 2003, but was actually drafted back in 2001. I just remember being underwhelmed by him. Ashworth took over for Randall and Woody left for the Jets. Koppen was drafted.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

I think he's been delegating but still gets the last word.

Ya, I suspect Bill wants his people to challenge him, and encourages them to do so, but he gets the final word.

 

[condon84]

I tend to think so many people look at stats.

Against the Jets, his stats sucked. But Mac actually played well in that game.

Miami and the Raiders games were big negatives for him, despite the stats

If the stats aren't good but he's being decisive and helping the team win, then I would be happy and say he's playing well.

Brady didn't have the greatest stats in the first few SBs but we all know he was playing well and putting the team in the best possible position to win.

If Mac threw for 200 yards but he's avoiding sacks, dumping it to the right receivers, avoiding turnovers, etc I would be happy.

His first year Josh basically held his hand, didn't allow him any freedom and it looked pretty good. Now that he's had freedom to make reads and progress, he's been a **** show. It just goes to show that he's just not that kind of QB where the offense can give him the ball and let him do his thing.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

If the stats aren't good but he's being decisive and helping the team win, then I would be happy and say he's playing well.

Brady didn't have the greatest stats in the first few SBs but we all know he was playing well and putting the team in the best possible position to win.

If Mac threw for 200 yards but he's avoiding sacks, dumping it to the right receivers, avoiding turnovers, etc I would be happy.

His first year Josh basically held his hand, didn't allow him any freedom and it looked pretty good. Now that he's had freedom to make reads and progress, he's been a **** show. It just goes to show that he's just not that kind of QB where the offense can give him the ball and let him do his thing.

I think the last few games of Mac's 1st year the opposition started stacking the box and putting a lot of pressure on Mac. Mac has never figured that out since the end of his rookie year. Last year he was lost in his head with Patricia. This year he bottomed out against Dallas and the Saints. No idea if he will recover. Mac did have some nice passes last game against the Raiders with his feet set and some zip on the ball - I said some. Can Mac complete a few more good passes in this game against Buffalo? We will see.

 

[venecol]

I think the last few games of Mac's 1st year the opposition started stacking the box and putting a lot of pressure on Mac. Mac has never figured that out since the end of his rookie year. Last year he was lost in his head with Patricia. This year he bottomed out against Dallas and the Saints. No idea if he will recover. Mac did have some nice passes last game against the Raiders with his feet set and some zip on the ball - I said some. Can Mac complete a few more good passes in this game against Buffalo. We will see.

Yup, they're forcing him to throw outside the numbers or check downs. His ball speed isn't great to the outside, ripe for picks.

 

[SteveBsFan]

I can safely guess that Mac is not good enough to win a lot of games in the NFL. BB did the guy the no favors in his second year. If the oline was this bad when Brady was drafted he may have been just another camp casualty by year 3? Or maybe Brady’s pocket footwork and presence would have been enough? I think Brady would have been fine just because of the traits he shows early.

I personally don’t think it would have had much of a negative impact because they had Brady stick with a lot of quick throws / screen passes and he was damn good at that. So heavy pass rush often worked in his favor as he’d dump it off to Faulk for decent gains.

 

[SteveBsFan]

I think the last few games of Mac's 1st year the opposition started stacking the box and putting a lot of pressure on Mac. Mac has never figured that out since the end of his rookie year. Last year he was lost in his head with Patricia. This year he bottomed out against Dallas and the Saints. No idea if he will recover. Mac did have some nice passes last game against the Raiders with his feet set and some zip on the ball - I said some. Can Mac complete a few more good passes in this game against Buffalo? We will see.

That’s my theory. Defenses stack the line and even if they don’t actually blitz, he can’t seem to read it fast enough so he panics and makes a bad throw.

They can easily put 6-7 guys on the line and just have the LB drop back into coverage and the damage is usually done just with that.

Is he bad at reading defenses to see fake blitz plays? Is he assigning hot routes and blockers to people who aren’t even blitzing which weakens other areas?

I doubt anyone outside the coaching staff really knows because they know what they’re calling but it seems you just need to fake pressure to get in his head now

 

[Betterthanmost]

All aboard the Drake team. Keep throwing the pick 6 Mac. You are helping the patriots. Need Denver to win more games though.

 

[Patriot Missile]

And if we are going to bench Mac or get rid of BB, that's pretty much hitting the reset button once again, after we've done that for 3 straight seasons.

Something has to stay put and be allowed to grow in place, or we'll be no better than the Jets who have been hitting reset just about every year.

The way I see it, Mac does have some problems, but he is far from being the reason why we are 1-5.

The offensive line and Mac. What else is there? He’s had 3 pick 6’s returned for tds and 4 for his career. Brady had 4 for his entire longest career ever!!!! And no he’s not Brady!! Nobody is!! They’ve scored a whopping 72 points. Last in the league. The defense has given up 152, 2nd worst in the league, no thanks to Mac and the 40 points he gave up off turnovers. THINK ABOUT THAT. The defense would be top 10 in pa without Mac, but instead are 31st in spite of him. Take the sack, throw it away, better yet, make a 2nd or 3rd read, step up to the pressure, sidestep, do something besides a stupid turnover. Give me a break with the receivers are never open. There’s 11 defenders on the field, believe me, someone is open, the te? the rb? He can’t slow it down. He’s in year 3 and he’s fair game for criticism. No more excuses for this guy. They are 1-5 because of him.

 

[PatsFan2]

Yes. That's indeed hard to believe.
But you can also say the same of Parker. Is Parker that bad that he fakes a give up route before breaking inside?

To your question yess!

 

[PatsFan2]

I can safely guess that Mac is not good enough to win a lot of games in the NFL. BB did the guy the no favors in his second year. If the oline was this bad when Brady was drafted he may have been just another camp casualty by year 3? Or maybe Brady’s pocket footwork and presence would of been enough? I think Brady would of been fine just because of the traits he shows early.

Anyway, reason why I think Jones is a bust to below average qb is not just the environment that was unfortunately created/inherited, but his physical skills, read ability and pocket presence. He can’t make all the throws that a real NFL qb makes. It’s so blatantly obvious that the strength needed to make the short sideline throw across the field isn’t there. It’s a pick 6 waiting to happen and all the defenders know it. You can’t convince me that when defenses are game planning for Mac that this isn’t discussed. “Be patient, wait for it.” If you can’t make that throw, you can’t be a qb in this league. They will never respect you. He also can’t get to his 2nd or 3rd reads, that will get any qb packing their bags. You can’t be great in this league without that trait. And I promise you, for all the people that say even “Mahomes couldn’t be successful behind this oline,” I guarantee, even as a rookie he would flash signs of being in command on this team and make a show of it at least.

All the great ones can make all the throws, move properly in the pocket and excel at reading defenses. The average to good ones may be good at just reading defenses, athletic enough to be a dual threat or simply have a cannon or super accurate arm that compensates for not having read ability or pocket awareness.

Mac has shown none of these traits in year 3. He got the pass in year 2, now he’s under a microscope and failing miserably.

That^ you nailed it Brother right on. Mac can't make all the throws and the Defense knows it.

 

[PP2]

The offensive line and Mac. What else is there? He’s had 3 pick 6’s returned for tds and 4 for his career. Brady had 4 for his entire longest career ever!!!! And no he’s not Brady!! Nobody is!! They’ve scored a whopping 72 points. Last in the league. The defense has given up 152, 2nd worst in the league, no thanks to Mac and the 40 points he gave up off turnovers. THINK ABOUT THAT. The defense would be top 10 in pa without Mac, but instead are 31st in spite of him. Take the sack, throw it away, better yet, make a 2nd or 3rd read, step up to the pressure, sidestep, do something besides a stupid turnover. Give me a break with the receivers are never open. There’s 11 defenders on the field, believe me, someone is open, the te? the rb? He can’t slow it down. He’s in year 3 and he’s fair game for criticism. No more excuses for this guy. They are 1-5 because of him.

Telling me you don't watch the all-22 without telling me you don't watch the all-22.

But you are right on one point, Mac has zero trust in his own line and that in turn, is affecting his confidence.

 

[Ross12]

Yup, they're forcing him to throw outside the numbers or check downs. His ball speed isn't great to the outside, ripe for picks.

But they aren’t. There are passes open down the middle. He’s just not seeing them because he’s scared to step up.

 

[PatsFan2]

Yup, they're forcing him to throw outside the numbers or check downs. His ball speed isn't great to the outside, ripe for picks.

And that's Mac's Biggest flaw and as a Hof DC that's the first thing BB would see if he was Coaching against Mac Jones. Why does BB think he could win with a Guy who couldn't beat him if the roles were reversed?? It's called Arrogance I'm smart and everybody else is stupid. I really hope the Krafts are thinking about moving on from him it's time.

 

[upstater1]

To your question yess!

So who is worse?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

So who is worse?

I think it is Parker. Mac panics, but still knows the play, and where to start his reads. I think O'Sullivan was wrong in his guess. But Mac is so jittery, it is hard to know for sure.

 

[PatsFan2]

So who is worse?

Is that a rhetorical question??

 

[Triumph]

That’s my theory. Defenses stack the line and even if they don’t actually blitz, he can’t seem to read it fast enough so he panics and makes a bad throw.

They can easily put 6-7 guys on the line and just have the LB drop back into coverage and the damage is usually done just with that.

Is he bad at reading defenses to see fake blitz plays? Is he assigning hot routes and blockers to people who aren’t even blitzing which weakens other areas?

I doubt anyone outside the coaching staff really knows because they know what they’re calling but it seems you just need to fake pressure to get in his head now

I saw a stat somewhere that stated Corky Mac struggled worse vs rushing 4 than the blitz.