Ninkovich and Crable as our OLB's

[Patspsycho]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

I'm not one to pine for the past, but the LB corps has been so weakened the past few years it's no surprise the team has declined.

2004: Bruschi-T.Johnson-Willie Mac-Phifer-Vrabel

2007: Bruschi-Seau-Colvin-A.Thomas-Vrabel

2009: A.Thomas-Mayo-Guyton-TBC-Ninkovich

Look at those names! The 2009 guys (minus Mayo) wouldn't even have sniffed the starting line ups of the previous years.

Never mind no longer having what was clearly the best d-line anymore.

My point is... nothing. I'm sure it will be strengthened again for 2010. I just hope it gets really strong.

We need to draft Chuck Norris.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

I'm not one to pine for the past, but the LB corps has been so weakened the past few years it's no surprise the team has declined.

2004: Bruschi-T.Johnson-Willie Mac-Phifer-Vrabel

2007: Bruschi-Seau-Colvin-A.Thomas-Vrabel

2009: A.Thomas-Mayo-Guyton-TBC-Ninkovich

Look at those names! The 2009 guys (minus Mayo) wouldn't even have sniffed the starting line ups of the previous years.

Never mind no longer having what was clearly the best d-line anymore.

My point is... nothing. I'm sure it will be strengthened again for 2010. I just hope it gets really strong.

It will be strengthened again for 2010, but I dont think it can get really strong for 2010. There just arent any FAs out there that can completely change our LB position. It will take a few years and draft picks to get back to our really strong LB groups of past years.

 

[Patjew]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

We need to draft Chuck Norris.

Finally, a plan that can work!

Norris on one side, Seward on the other. Who could hope to stop that???

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

Finally, a plan that can work!

Norris on one side, Seward on the other. Who could hope to stop that???

Why didn't BB think of this idea before? we ought to charge him commission.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

I like Ninkovich a lot, but he's a special-teamer/backup. If you go into the season with him penciled in as a starter, or even a primary backup, you're probably in trouble.

As for Crable, I think we're past the point of being able to assume that he can offer anything. If he can contribute next year, great, but I hope the FO plans on proceeding as though he won't.

 

[102 Pat]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

We need to draft Chuck Norris.

Chuck Norris could stop the run, pressure the QB and punt if he had too...

Jokes aside, I would be shocked if Crable makes it thru pre-season without getting hurt. I had high hopes when he was drafted a few years ago and those hopes are all but gone...

 

[The_Riddler]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

We have a lot of time. The cry for linebackers is not a new one. We need TWO starting OLB's, and a role player (presumably Woods). You make it sound like this is an easy task.

QUOTE=BelichickFan;1689969]Sucks that we have a game coming up in about 7 1/2 months. No time to do anything about this mess. And it's not like Belichick has ever signed a veteran FA OLB like Vrable, Colvin, Thomas or TBC.

You mean like Clay Matthews and Rey Maualuga ?

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

First, I still think that is very likely that TBC returns. The only teams I could see potentially interested in him now are either KC or Denver. Cleveland's days or raiding the the Pats is over with Holmgren in charge. TBC is now considered product of a system and the only teams that would be interest in him are teams who run that system. I would assume that Denver franchises Dumerville which means their need for an OLB is not that high.

Second, I wouldn't hold much hope for Crable. The guy has ended on IR each of the last two years. Odds of him making a comeback is doubtful.

Third, Ninovich is a role player, not a starter.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

You mean like Clay Matthews and Rey Maualuga ?

Again, if you take Matthews, you give up on Darius Butler, Julian Edelman, Brandon Tate and our first second rounder this year.

It's such a deep draft, we're likely to take a really good player in the 2nd round, and 2 years from now, we'll be asking, is Clay Matthews equal to the value of a a #1 CB Butler, a #2 WR Tate, the NFL's best slot WR in Edelman, and a versatile OLB like Eric Norwood or DE/pass rush specialist like Ricky Sapp/Carlos Dunlap?

In a couple years, the trade down from the Matthews slot may look like genius.

 

[MassPats38]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

I agree. I'd like to see some jackassedness come in to NE. Our guys all seems quite pleasant and agreeable. I want some thugs, albeit some thugs that can play in harmony.

Bryan Cox was something of a freak, and that worked out okay when he joined the team.

I still have no clue as to what Crable can do, and Banta-Cain and Ninkovich should not be the starting options. Banta-Cain still has issues against the run, a fairly glaring issue for a full time LB.

 

[The_Riddler]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

Again, if you take Matthews, you give up on Darius Butler, Julian Edelman, Brandon Tate and our first second rounder this year.

It's such a deep draft, we're likely to take a really good player in the 2nd round, and 2 years from now, we'll be asking, is Clay Matthews equal to the value of a a #1 CB Butler, a #2 WR Tate, the NFL's best slot WR in Edelman, and a versatile OLB like Eric Norwood or DE/pass rush specialist like Ricky Sapp/Carlos Dunlap?

In a couple years, the trade down from the Matthews slot may look like genius.

WHAT are you talking about ? They could have sat tight in round one, taken Clay Matthews and then taken Darius Butler with the KC pick ! And still have gotten Vollmer at the end of Round two or even in Round 3. Tate has done absolute JACK, until he does, then try to make a case. We already have the NFL's best slot WR, what are you talking about KoolAid drinker. We need freakin staring LBs. MY WORD !!!!!!!!!!! Please stop apologizing or trying to justify BB's piss poor draft strategy, it's getting old.................

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

There is no way we go on with Ninovich and Crable. Belichick is not dumb and realizes that this is one of the first positions we need to address if we are to have an adequate defense next year.

Here are my opinions on what will happen.
1. We bring TBC back, he saw what happened when he left the first time, he was very unproductive in a different system. He signs with us because it's best for him and the Pats
2. Adalius Thomas is gone
3. See what we get from coming back from injuries. Crable was considered a starter before he went down and if by some miracle he can stay healthy this year I wouldn't be shocked if he started. If McKenzie can come back and be the player he was in college this allows us to move Guyton back to the outside. So as of now I'd say the starters for next year without any changes are Crable, McKenzie, Mayo and Guyton. But of course there will be changes.
4. Expect two veterans to come in. Don't be shocked if one of the two is a flashy pass rush specialist like Taylor or Peppers.
5. Expect them to draft at least 2 olb's one with a pick in the first two rounds. I'd love to see Jerry Hughes or Ricky Sapp.

Mark my words, the linebacking core for the Patriots will be fierce again next year.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

WHAT are you talking about ? They could have sat tight in round one, taken Clay Matthews and then taken Darius Butler with the KC pick ! And still have gotten Vollmer at the end of Round two or even in Round 3. Tate has done absolute JACK, until he does, then try to make a case. We already have the NFL's best slot WR, what are you talking about KoolAid drinker. We need freakin staring LBs. MY WORD !!!!!!!!!!! Please stop apologizing or trying to justify BB's piss poor draft strategy, it's getting old.................

Wow, someone needs to lay off the caffeine.

What I'm talking about is what the Patriots GAINED by trading Matthews. The only way to figure that out is to look DIRECTLY at what they got from trading. The trade DIRECTLY yielded the picks I reported. That's not obvious enough to you? I didn't even mention Vollmer, and just speculating on him being available in the 3rd round is ridiculous ESPECIALLY when his value is now HIGHER than where he was drafted. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

WHAT are you talking about ? They could have sat tight in round one, taken Clay Matthews and then taken Darius Butler with the KC pick ! And still have gotten Vollmer at the end of Round two or even in Round 3. Tate has done absolute JACK, until he does, then try to make a case. We already have the NFL's best slot WR, what are you talking about KoolAid drinker. We need freakin staring LBs. MY WORD !!!!!!!!!!! Please stop apologizing or trying to justify BB's piss poor draft strategy, it's getting old.................

Again, are we sure Clay Matthews would even fit the Pats' system? Just because he is great on the Packers' squad doesn't mean he would be 1/10th the player with the Pats. Just because the Packers run a 3-4, doesn't mean they run the same 3-4 the Pats do. Dom Caper is far more reliant on zone blitzing than the Pats' system does. Capers comes from the Steelers' philosophy of 3-4, not the Belichick style.

It seems like Matthews would be at least decent on the Pats' squad, but that is not a guarantee. Yes, Vrabel came out of the Steelers' style of defense and made a great impact, but many Steeler LBs have proven that they can be a dominant player in that scheme and nothing elsewhere.

 

[pats1]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

If Banta Cain returns, I think 1 OLB and 1 ILB of starting quality is fine. TBC doesn't thrill me but as the 4th best LB he's a lot better than this year being the 2nd best.

It's not a great situation but it's ridiculous to panic in January. Yes, OLB is a big need but shock subjects like this are a bit silly.

You don't want Banta-Cain to be a full-time starting OLB. He's not good enough in run coverage. The Pats need two more OLBs, as long as you believe Burgess and Thomas are gone. You're not getting by with a new guy, Banta-Cain, Ninkovich, and Crable at the position. You need three-starting quality OLBs to rotate (Banta-Cain, _____, _____ - just like McGinest, Vrabel, Colvin), and that's what the Pats will focus on.

Guyton, a.k.a. Roman Phifer 2.0, is not a 3-4 OLB. I know he's played a little there in the past, but he's not suited for that position. He has absolutely no size and would get abused against the run; he will not set an edge for you. Similarly, he's had problems against the run as a 3-4 ILB. He's best suited as a sub LB, meaning the Pats are also going to have to find a run-stopping ILB to play alongside Mayo in 2010 on early downs. Maybe McKenzie is that player, but we don't know yet. But the Pats sure as hell aren't going to have just Mayo and Guyton at ILB this season, especially after what happened against Baltimore.

The 4-3 is possible, as they did early this past season. That would make Wilfork less of a necessity, but they still don't have the personnel to run it, unless you think Pryor or Brace are all of the sudden capable of starting. Even then, you're still looking for more help at LB. Overall, I think BB would like to stick with the 3-4.

 

[pats1]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

There is no way we go on with Ninovich and Crable. Belichick is not dumb and realizes that this is one of the first positions we need to address if we are to have an adequate defense next year.

Here are my opinions on what will happen.
1. We bring TBC back, he saw what happened when he left the first time, he was very unproductive in a different system. He signs with us because it's best for him and the Pats
2. Adalius Thomas is gone
3. See what we get from coming back from injuries. Crable was considered a starter before he went down and if by some miracle he can stay healthy this year I wouldn't be shocked if he started. If McKenzie can come back and be the player he was in college this allows us to move Guyton back to the outside. So as of now I'd say the starters for next year without any changes are Crable, McKenzie, Mayo and Guyton. But of course there will be changes.
4. Expect two veterans to come in. Don't be shocked if one of the two is a flashy pass rush specialist like Taylor or Peppers.
5. Expect them to draft at least 2 olb's one with a pick in the first two rounds. I'd love to see Jerry Hughes or Ricky Sapp.

Mark my words, the linebacking core for the Patriots will be fierce again next year.

If Crable and McKenzie are starting for the Patriots in 2010, people will be jumping off the Zakim bridge.

 

[pats1]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

I'm not one to pine for the past, but the LB corps has been so weakened the past few years it's no surprise the team has declined.

2004: Bruschi-T.Johnson-Willie Mac-Phifer-Vrabel

2007: Bruschi-Seau-Colvin-A.Thomas-Vrabel

2009: A.Thomas-Mayo-Guyton-TBC-Ninkovich

Look at those names! The 2009 guys (minus Mayo) wouldn't even have sniffed the starting line ups of the previous years.

Never mind no longer having what was clearly the best d-line anymore.

My point is... nothing. I'm sure it will be strengthened again for 2010. I just hope it gets really strong.

You're forgetting Colvin in 2004.

 

[Jimke]

Re: Ninovich and Crable as our OLB's

Draftees don't fit the system or aren't high enough in value. Free agents either don't fit or are overpriced.

Our 2010 outside linebackers as of now are NINKOVICH and CRABLE, unless you believe Thomas is coming back.

I supposed we could pay Woods $2.4M and keep him for another year. He didn't play much this year.
===============================

But, we certainly trust Belichick to find OLB's.

I just hope BB doesn't trade a couple of draft picks for Derrick

Burgess's twin brother.

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

Absolutely not on Jason Taylor. He is beyond done. Anybody know the latest on Merriman?

We all hated Merriman, but we would love him here. He has the skills we look for and experience.
He was a good soldier for the Chargers this year as well. I don't know if the Chargers don't franchise him.

I can see a couple others that are there but will be franchises more than likely as in Ryans and Kirk Morrison (ILB so Guyton to OLB)

We need HEART as I have said all along. Keith Bullock brings leadership, experience and nastiness.

Ninkovich might work out. He had some good plays. Woods....nyet! MacKensie is an unknown like Crable. Crable looked terrible last pre-season.

As far as the Draft, I am with those who see Sergio Kindle as the type we would seek. I can see Corey Wooten from Northwestern as a Elephant OLB like Willie. I have seen him drop into coverage pretty well at 6'6" and 275. We know he can rush but may be gone as he is a top twenty type pick though.

I didn't see enough of McLain to see if he is a leader type. He is rated as the best LB. Most likely....gone.

It is the whole back seven that were a problem.

Believe it or not Safety is still a major issue on this team. It is Merriweather and somebody. Merriweather has skills but does not have the smarts to line up anyone and still takes wrong angles. His is a mental issue. If I remember his Combine Wonderlic did not qualify him for Mensa.
Sanders is a smart decent backup with physical liabilities and does not cover very well at all. He was 3 wins and 3 losses as the starter for all of you Cousins who said he straightened out the defensive backfield.
McGowan who finished second in tackles and third in PDF on the team and has ST value. They won 6 or 11 of the games he started with one loss that should not have been, the Colts. When he was asked to do a specific assignment like cover Clark he was outstanding. I think he is a rotation guy. They kept the training wheels on Chung like Merriweather two years ago so who knows. If Taylor Mays hangs until #22 do we grab him? I can see Merriweather, Mays, Chung and McGowan.
DW Toys

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Ninovich and Crable as our OLB's

Draftees don't fit the system or aren't high enough in value. Free agents either don't fit or are overpriced.

Our 2010 outside linebackers as of now are NINKOVICH and CRABLE, unless you believe Thomas is coming back.

I supposed we could pay Woods $2.4M and keep him for another year. He didn't play much this year.
===============================

But, we certainly trust Belichick to find OLB's.

I'm not a big fan of your new thinly-veiled criticism style of posting.
To make statements, consider them fact when they are not, then draw a conclusion based upon them is kind of annoying. You are having a strawman argument with yourself.
Not that you are't allowed to, its just getting old to me.