Ninkovich and Crable as our OLB's

[PowerRunRevival]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

If Crable and McKenzie are starting for the Patriots in 2010, people will be jumping off the Zakim bridge.

They won't be, I think Mayo starts along with either one or two of the TBC, Ninovich, Guyton, Woods, Crable, McKenzie group.

Other than that we will start one or two of the players we draft and sign in free agency.

 

[pats1]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

They won't be, I think Mayo starts along with either one or two of the TBC, Ninovich, Guyton, Woods, Crable, McKenzie group.

Other than that we will start one or two of the players we draft and sign in free agency.

Every player you mentioned is not starting quality, except for TBC.

 

[Jimke]

Re: Ninovich and Crable as our OLB's

I'm not a big fan of your new thinly-veiled criticism style of posting.
To make statements, consider them fact when they are not, then draw a conclusion based upon them is kind of annoying. You are having a strawman argument with yourself.
Not that you are't allowed to, its just getting old to me.

No outside linebacker drafted in the 1st or 2nd round in 10 years

kind of backs up his contention.

 

[chevss454]

Re: Ninovich and Crable as our OLB's

No outside linebacker drafted in the 1st or 2nd round in 10 years

kind of backs up his contention.

Yes, but...
BB has been stockpiling draft choices and now it's time to cash in those chips. ILB's McClain (ALA) and Spikes (FL) or OLB's Kindle and Muckleroy (both from TX) and Graham (MI) and others from which to choose as well as FA's. These are smashmouth tough football players with attitude which the Pats need.

 

[Mack Herron]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

Every player you mentioned is not starting quality, except for TBC.

Respectfully disagree. TBC is a passing down player. Cannot seal the edge on the run. We need 2 OLBs that can turn runs inside and 2 ILBs that can shed a block and tackle a RB. There was way too much inconsistency in these areas from all 4 LB positions, including Mayo.

 

[JMarr]

Draftees don't fit the system or aren't high enough in value. Free agents either don't fit or are overpriced.

Our 2010 outside linebackers as of now are NINKOVICH and CRABLE, unless you believe Thomas is coming back.

I supposed we could pay Woods $2.4M and keep him for another year. He didn't play much this year.
===============================

But, we certainly trust Belichick to find OLB's.

When I read the title of this thread I almost spit out my coffee. Thanks for the laugh.

I agree with the poster who said Guyton should slide to the outside in the 3-4 [but as a backup!]. I think his skillset is better suited to it--pretty good in coverage, and quick for his size [meaning he might be able to be an effective outside pass rusher]. I don't know if he's big enough to set the edge, but I doubt he would be a dropoff from Burgess, TBC or Woods with a little coaching.

Guyton might be the hardest worker and one of the smarter players on the defense, but is not a starting NFL linebacker IMO. He got absolutely abused in the running game all year. ILB? Don't think so--just about any player on the field, from Guards to RBs are able to engage him one on one with relative ease.

 

[pats1]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

Respectfully disagree. TBC is a passing down player. Cannot seal the edge on the run. We need 2 OLBs that can turn runs inside and 2 ILBs that can shed a block and tackle a RB. There was way too much inconsistency in these areas from all 4 LB positions, including Mayo.

I agree with you completely. I guess what I was trying to say is that TBC isn't fit to be a full-time starter, but would work in a rotation; he's therefore on a higher plane than the rest of the OLB group.

 

[pats1]

When I read the title of this thread I almost spit out my coffee. Thanks for the laugh.

I agree with the poster who said Guyton should slide to the outside in the 3-4 [but as a backup!]. I think his skillset is better suited to it--pretty good in coverage, and quick for his size [meaning he might be able to be an effective outside pass rusher]. I don't know if he's big enough to set the edge, but I doubt he would be a dropoff from Burgess, TBC or Woods with a little coaching.

Guyton might be the hardest worker and one of the smarter players on the defense, but is not a starting NFL linebacker IMO. He got absolutely abused in the running game all year. ILB? Don't think so--just about any player on the field, from Guards to RBs are able to engage him one on one with relative ease.

Backup OLB who is good in coverage? Don't you mean a backup ILB? Same thing. He's a nickel LB, whether you call him a backup ILB or backup OLB. How about they save their backup OLB spots for guys who can rush the passer, like TBC.

 

[mgteich]

Ok, we agree taht Guyton is a good backup OLB. Banta-Cain is a sitautional passer, even if we re-sign him.

So, the leaves us with the need to fill THREE starting linebacker spots.

I find it amusing that someone posted that we have been saving our draft picks for this very need. Well, if so, we have been stockpiling our picks for 10 years.

Clearly, given that Thomas is going, we currently have one of the worst linebackers groups imaginable with only one starter in Mayo. We do have seven months to fill the needs, but the needs are severe.

When I read the title of this thread I almost spit out my coffee. Thanks for the laugh.

I agree with the poster who said Guyton should slide to the outside in the 3-4 [but as a backup!]. I think his skillset is better suited to it--pretty good in coverage, and quick for his size [meaning he might be able to be an effective outside pass rusher]. I don't know if he's big enough to set the edge, but I doubt he would be a dropoff from Burgess, TBC or Woods with a little coaching.

Guyton might be the hardest worker and one of the smarter players on the defense, but is not a starting NFL linebacker IMO. He got absolutely abused in the running game all year. ILB? Don't think so--just about any player on the field, from Guards to RBs are able to engage him one on one with relative ease.

 

[pats1]

Ok, we agree taht Guyton is a good backup OLB. Banta-Cain is a sitautional passer, even if we re-sign him.

So, the leaves us with the need to fill THREE starting linebacker spots.

I find it amusing that someone posted that we have been saving our draft picks for this very need. Well, if so, we have been stockpiling our picks for 10 years.

I don't see how Guyton is "a good backup OLB." He's a good backup ILB. If Julius Peppers or Elvis Dumervil or Dream OLB X goes down for the Patriots, does anyone think that Guyton can come in and rush the passer? Of course not. Then why call him a backup OLB? Because he's a nickel, coverage linebacker. Then why not call him an ILB?

 

[mgteich]

I'm fine with Guyton as a solid backup ILB, and even as a sometime starter. I was agreeing with another poster that he has the skills set to be a good backup outside as well.

I don't see how Guyton is "a good backup OLB." He's a good backup ILB. If Julius Peppers or Elvis Dumervil or Dream OLB X goes down for the Patriots, does anyone think that Guyton can come in and rush the passer? Of course not. Then why call him a backup OLB? Because he's a nickel, coverage linebacker. Then why not call him an ILB?

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm fine with Guyton as a solid backup ILB, and even as a sometime starter. I was agreeing with another poster that he has the skills set to be a good backup outside as well.

He does? How so? He can cover, but can he set the edge or rush the passer?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

Absolutely not on Jason Taylor. He is beyond done. Anybody know the latest on Merriman?

Taylor wasn't bad for the Dolphins this year. I'd take him on a one year contract. Considering that there's no cap, it's better to have him than not have him, I figure.

 

[pats1]

I'm fine with Guyton as a solid backup ILB, and even as a sometime starter. I was agreeing with another poster that he has the skills set to be a good backup outside as well.

Let's just drop the "backup" part of that sentence for a minute - if you're going to be a backup to a position, then you need to have the general skills to be the starter that position (i.e. Moss isn't a TE).

Does Guyton have the skills to be an OLB in the 3-4, backup or not? I don't think so. He's not big enough to set the edge and teams would target him against the run. He's not considered a pass rusher by all accounts. He's a good coverage linebacker. I just don't see why we're calling him an OLB if he doesn't have the normal OLB skill sets.

 

[pats1]

He does? How so? He can cover, but can he set the edge or rush the passer?

Exactly. If he doesn't have at least one of the core skillsets of a 3-4 OLB, then I don't see why we're calling him a backup OLB. Yes, he is good in coverage. That's more of an ILB responsibility, so let's call him a backup ILB. What's so wrong with that?

Bottom line is, Guyton is NOT the answer to fill one of the holes at OLB, so I don't even know why we're bringing him up.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Ninovich and Crable As Our OLB's

We all hated Merriman, but we would love him here. He has the skills we look for and experience.
He was a good soldier for the Chargers this year as well. I don't know if the Chargers don't franchise him.

What did Merriman do this year? NADA. His knees are toast. He's been getting worse and worse ever since he came off the juice.

I can see a couple others that are there but will be franchises more than likely as in Ryans and Kirk Morrison (ILB so Guyton to OLB)

We need HEART as I have said all along. Keith Bullock brings leadership, experience and nastiness.

And he has a hatred for the Patriots. He's not likely to come here.

Ninkovich might work out. He had some good plays. Woods....nyet! MacKensie is an unknown like Crable. Crable looked terrible last pre-season.

As far as the Draft, I am with those who see Sergio Kindle as the type we would seek. I can see Corey Wooten from Northwestern as a Elephant OLB like Willie. I have seen him drop into coverage pretty well at 6'6" and 275. We know he can rush but may be gone as he is a top twenty type pick though.

I didn't see enough of McLain to see if he is a leader type. He is rated as the best LB. Most likely....gone.

It is the whole back seven that were a problem.

Believe it or not Safety is still a major issue on this team. It is Merriweather and somebody. Merriweather has skills but does not have the smarts to line up anyone and still takes wrong angles. His is a mental issue. If I remember his Combine Wonderlic did not qualify him for Mensa.
Sanders is a smart decent backup with physical liabilities and does not cover very well at all. He was 3 wins and 3 losses as the starter for all of you Cousins who said he straightened out the defensive backfield.
McGowan who finished second in tackles and third in PDF on the team and has ST value. They won 6 or 11 of the games he started with one loss that should not have been, the Colts. When he was asked to do a specific assignment like cover Clark he was outstanding. I think he is a rotation guy. They kept the training wheels on Chung like Merriweather two years ago so who knows. If Taylor Mays hangs until #22 do we grab him? I can see Merriweather, Mays, Chung and McGowan.
DW Toys

The FRONT seven was the problem. Not the back seven. The Front seven wasn't putting pressure on the QB and the DBs were doing their best, but you can only do so much when the QB get 5-7 seconds to throw the ball free and clear...

 

[mgteich]

OK, we have several months to discuss this, let's do the analysis in parts. Five LB's usually get major amounts of reps. We also need 3-4 backups in case of injury, as developmental players, and as special teamers.

STARTERS
We play the 3-4 most of the time so we need four starting LB's. We currently have exactly ONE - Mayo, period. We need three more.

PLAYERS WHO MIGHT FILL IN AND PLAY A MAJOR AMOUNT OF REPS
We need at least three role players and backups.
we have
Guyton, Ninkovich.
We also have the IR returnees Crable and McKenzie.
=======================================

Given that we have three open positions, posters are exploring where our few assets might fit in, depending on who else we might acquire.

Let's just drop the "backup" part of that sentence for a minute - if you're going to be a backup to a position, then you need to have the general skills to be the starter that position (i.e. Moss isn't a TE).

Does Guyton have the skills to be an OLB in the 3-4, backup or not? I don't think so. He's not big enough to set the edge and teams would target him against the run. He's not considered a pass rusher by all accounts. He's a good coverage linebacker. I just don't see why we're calling him an OLB if he doesn't have the normal OLB skill sets.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

We need to take a DEEP look at Jerry Hughes of SCU..He could be a mighty good player in development at OLB.

 

[pats1]

OK, we have several months to discuss this, let's do the analysis in parts. Five LB's usually get major amounts of reps. We also need 3-4 backups in case of injury, as developmental players, and as special teamers.

STARTERS
We play the 3-4 most of the time so we need four starting LB's. We currently have exactly ONE - Mayo, period. We need three more.

PLAYERS WHO MIGHT FILL IN AND PLAY A MAJOR AMOUNT OF REPS
We need at least three role players and backups.
we have
Guyton, Ninkovich.
We also have the IR returnees Crable and McKenzie.
=======================================

Given that we have three open positions, posters are exploring where our few assets might fit in, depending on who else we might acquire.

I don't think we're too far apart here. I think we both agree that Guyton probably isn't a full-time starter in this defense.

It's like asking the question on whether Matt Chatham was a backup ILB or backup OLB. It didn't really matter because he was almost exclusively a special teamer. BUT, in the case when he was pressed into duty (2003), he was an OLB.

Obivously, Guyton isn't just a special teamer, but he'll be part of that nickel package, which has two LBs, not necessarily a ILB or an OLB. BUT, in the case when he's pressed into duty, what position will he play? His entire skill set and history points to ILB, so that's where I think you're wrong by saying OLB, because he's NOT going to set the edge and he's NOT going to rush the passer.

I agree with your general assessment though. There's currently ONE full-time starter under contract - Mayo. That leaves one starter at ILB and two rotation guys at OLB, along with TBC, if he returns.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let's just hope that this draft is loaded with quality OLB prospects, because what I'm hearing is that Shanahan is going to switch the Redskins to the 3-4, and the Chiefs had to assure Crennel that there would be a serious focus on linebackers and safeties in order to get him to join that squad.