NFLN: Brady/Manning Debate

[jcdavey]

logically speaking, i'd have montana as GOAT

brady and elway battling for #2

peyton 3 or below marino


tough call

 

[Calciumee]

I think at this point in their careers no Colts fan would ever trade Manning for Brady and vice versa. The debate was more interesting when Manning was the numbers guy and Brady was the winning guy yet now Brady has the numbers and Manning has won the big one. Really you're picking knits.

Yes, but only once!

 

[SHOWTIME15]

i love this list. manning #2 didn't even make it.

 

[stevedogc]

And Manning has been in the league one more season than Brady.

Peyton Manning has played more then 1 season more then Brady. Manning has started 208 regular season games and Brady has started 143 regular season games. Thats a difference of 65 games or the equivalent of 4 NFL seasons.

Also:

54,828>34744
399>261

Again, Manning has played in 65 more games and attempted 2500 more passes then Brady. Of course his total numbers will be better. Using total numbers as a determining factor in who is a better player is as flawed of a reason as you can get. By your logic, Drew Bledsoe, Warren Moon and Vinny Testaverde are all better QBs then Steve Young cause they have more carrer passing yards and passing TDs then Young. Also, Testaverde and Moon both have more career yards and TDs then Montana. So you must beleive that Testaverde and Moon are better QBs then Montana.

Brady and Manning are both great QBs and along with Montana will be argued as the top 3 in NFL history. But if all Colts fans can use as their arguement are total career numbers (which I proved is an extremely flawed arguement) and a portion of Bradys career stats(IndyColtsfans continued postings of Bradys last few playoff games) then they need to avoid this arguement all together cause they are making no valid points.

 

[BradyFTW!]

wtf? Since when do Colts fans have a leg to stand on in "debating" the Pats accomplishments? what have the Colts ever done?

Quantitative stats are one of the most worthless ways to measure a QB that there is. By passing yardage, Drew Bledsoe and Vinny Testaverde are the 7th and 8th best QBs of all time, and they'd likely be even higher if the primes of their careers have been post-2004. So I think we can go ahead and throw that entire metric right out the window. The fact of the matter is that Brady is better indoors and better outdoors than Manning is, despite playing his outdoor games in far worse conditions, with inferior receivers, and against a higher level of competition. Manning is a hell of a quarterback, but between he and Brady there's just no contest. It's not even a debate worth entertaining anymore.

Quick fact: of the top 10 in career passing yards, 5 never won a Super Bowl, 6 never started in and won one (Bledsoe in 2001 being the other). Of the top 10, Montana and Elway were the only ones to win multiple SBs. And as bad as it looks now, Kerry ******* Collins is exactly 111 passing yards away from bumping Joe Montana out of the top 10, at which point that group will boast a grant total of four Super Bowl victories (not counting Bledsoe's nonperformance in 2001).

Give me the QB with the best TD-INT ratio and int% any day. On a related note, Brady and Manning have the same career TD% (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_perc_career.htm), while Brady is miles ahead of Manning in int% (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_perc_career.htm). Manning barely cracks the top 30 all-time in either category. Historically, he's probably the most overrated QB ever other than Brett Favre.

 

[Mainefan]

Boy, I'm glad we can finally settle this once and for all and stop arguing about it.

 

[stevedogc]

Boy, I'm glad we can finally settle this once and for all and stop arguing about it.

well argueing this stuff is what makes sports so much fun. I have no problem with a Colts fan claiming Manning is better then Brady. Just make a vaid arguement.

 

[BradyFTW!]

well argueing this stuff is what makes sports so much fun. I have no problem with a Colts fan claiming Manning is better then Brady. Just make a vaid arguement.

You can't. That's the problem. Pretty much every argument that you could have made for Manning in the past has been invalidated since 2007.

 

[Joker]

Peyton's forehead is fly friendly...a nice clear fly landing strip...Brady's mop obscures his run of the mill forehead and is definitely insect unfriendly...advantage Peytie

 

[stevedogc]

You can't. That's the problem. Pretty much every argument that you could have made for Manning in the past has been invalidated since 2007.

I completely agree. Thats why Colts fans have resorted to using things like career stats. Comparing total numbers of two players with a 65 game difference is ludicrous and makes no sense at all.

 

[Joker]

Living in the middle of a Twilight Zone episode involving cow pies, mutant 500 pound Darlene's,mystery air conditioned plasti-domes and perrenial 4H hog breeder of the year award winners doesn't make much sense either.

 

[sbpatfan]

I just feel bad for Colt fans. It must be hard going to bed with your sister at night knowing the "GOAT" (greatest of all time, not the thing you and cousin Billy Bob milk in the morning) only has one championship against Rex Grossman and friends.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I just feel bad for Colt fans. It must be hard going to bed with your sister at night knowing the "GOAT" (greatest of all time, not the thing you and cousin Billy Bob milk in the morning) only has one championship against Rex Grossman and friends.

I can't hate on Indiana too much, if only because it gave us Larry Bird.

 

[jcdavey]

I can't hate on Indiana too much, if only because it gave us Larry Bird.

he was so great

 

[ScottieC]

Seems like now, the Peyton/Tom argument in the Press and Nationally is shifting towards the "He's the Offensive Coordinator" and calls the plays, tells the kicker to leave the field and let him go for it, etc etc.

Not sure how that makes Peyton a better "Player" than Tom Brady, but hey, I guess you have to argue something when it's getting more difficult to argue Regular Season Statistics.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Boy, I'm glad we can finally settle this once and for all and stop arguing about it.

seriously, the players voted for Tom and a few years ago the GMs voted for Tom as well.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Seems like now, the Peyton/Tom argument in the Press and Nationally is shifting towards the "He's the Offensive Coordinator" and calls the plays, tells the kicker to leave the field and let him go for it, etc etc.

Not sure how that makes Peyton a better "Player" than Tom Brady, but hey, I guess you have to argue something when it's getting more difficult to argue Regular Season Statistics.

I caught a recent segment on NFLN with Baldinger and LaCanfora, where LaCanfora rated PManning 11th best player in the league. Baldinger just couldn't believe it, and went on about how PM has "revolutionized the way quarterbacks play the game."

While I have no doubt that Manning is a master of reading defense, I also think people are too swayed by all the silly gestures he does at the line of scrimmage. That's why it was great to see both Revis and especially Ray Lewis giving Brady credit for how he reads the defense and the situation.

Here's the video:
NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Baldinger, La Canfora unveil top 10 player lists «

 

[ScottieC]

I caught a recent segment on NFLN with Baldinger and LaCanfora, where LaCanfora rated PManning 11th best player in the league. Baldinger just couldn't believe it, and went on about how PM has "revolutionized the way quarterbacks play the game."

While I have no doubt that Manning is a master of reading defense, I also think people are too swayed by all the silly gestures he does at the line of scrimmage. That's why it was great to see both Revis and especially Ray Lewis giving Brady credit for how he reads the defense and the situation.

Here's the video:
NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Baldinger, La Canfora unveil top 10 player lists «

If he revolutionized the way QB's played the game, where is this revolution?

What are players doing now that they were not doing before? I believe that Montana and Elway would take exception to that comment. As well they should.

Walsh revolutionized QB play, Montana was just the exceptional QB that made his play calling historic.

 

[Snake Eyes]

If he revolutionized the way QB's played the game, where is this revolution?

Manning waves his hands in the air and says things.

It's funny how the overwhelming majority of the people who claim a player "revolutionized" a position can't tell you how, the one exception being Lawrence Taylor, who pretty much ran the I-formation out of the league during his tenure.

As far as QBs go, no one has ever called out what the defense is doing at the line, or changed the play at the line

You just need to constantly talk about how smart Manning is, how he's revolutionized things, and repeat over and over again.

 

[Rob0729]

I hate Baldinger. He acts like Peyton Manning created the no huddle offense. Did Baldinger forget about Jim Kelly? The no huddle offense was first introduced in 1988 with Boomer Esiason. It was made popular as the K-Gun offense with Kelly in the early 90s. So Baldinger thinks Manning changed the way the game is played because he was a master of doing something that has been round for over two decades? In fact, the only reason Manning even got a chance to do the no huddle is because Ted Marchibroda who was the head coach of the Colts from 1992-1996 was the OC of the Bills when Kelly was running the K-Gun.


Of course he has Peyton over Brady as the best QB in 2011 because "he was the best regular season QB of all time", "he changed the way the position has played", "ther hasn't been a better QB over the last 10 years", "the offenses some day won't go into huddles because of Manning". All career achievements, not recent achievement.

The moron doesn't even get the premise of the arguments. This poll was THE BEST OF 2011. Not the best of their career. Top players as they stand right now. As LaCanfora pointed out, Manning seems to have taken a step back over the last two years. It still makes him an elite QB, but not the QB he was four or five years ago which is why Baldinger has him over Brady. It is hard to argue Manning is better than Brady right now. It isn't even a slam dunk argument that Manning is better than Rodgers or Philip Rivers.

I shouldn't be surprised. Baldinger hates the Pats and there was no way he would make Brady the #1 player or even the first QB.