Mike Reiss brings some sanity to the Brady thing... (ESPN Radio)

[Kontradiction]

Now that I'm not at work and not posting from my cell phone and able to hear the actual interview, I can feel free to comment on the topic at hand.

This is the entire quote after the question...

You know, I wouldn't say they're getting together and having dinner and, you know, all that stuff, and that it's great. I mean I think they're in a business relationship and that's how I characterize it. So I'm not naive to say, you know, "everything is great", Greenie, but, at the same time, I think they both have a common understanding that this is business. You mentioned the different examples of the way the Patriots have had. Lawyer Milloy, Richard Seymour, Mike Vrabel, you know, I think Brady has seen that first hand. Drew Bledsoe and the other examples. So he "gets it", and I think that's what I'd say. I think there's a common understanding between the sides as to what's going on here. I don't think there's anger or anything like that. I think Brady would like a new deal. OBVIOUSLY he would. But I don't think he's coming into camp here angry at the situation.

Basically, I took this as Reiss stating that he doesn't think that Brady and the Patriots are buddy-buddy. He and Kraft are not going to get together for dinner and a movie and have Kraft cut a hole in the bottom of the popcorn box and wait for Brady to stick his hand in there. He's saying that they have a good business relationship and have for quite some time. At the same time, he's saying that Brady has seen what has happened with some other bigger veterans that the Patriots have had over the years (going so far as to mention them by name) and knows that this has the potential to be a long, drawn out negotiation for a new contract. He says that the two sides know that Brady wants to be one of the highest paid players in the league and, possibly, the highest paid player at his position. So I'm not sure why you guys are jumping all over Deus. The only problem that I see here is that he paraphrased the quote and didn't use the whole thing. Even then, you can get the point from the paraphrase.

At the same time, I think we should all take notice how many times Reiss says one word. That word is: "THINK". Reiss is essentially giving his opinion here, however educated it may be. It stands to reason that he could either be very right (which is what I'm going with given his history) or very wrong. He THINKS they have a good business relationship. He THINKS that Brady could be or has been influenced by other veterans departing after asking for more money. He THINKS that the two sides have a common understanding. He DOESN'T THINK there is any animosity between the two sides. He DOESN'T THINK Brady is coming into camp angry. These are very key words here. Reiss doesn't know for certain either way, and I believe we should all keep that in mind when looking at and judging this.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yeah, it would be so much better here if we just agreed with one another over and over again ad nauseum.

Actually it would be so much better here if we could discuss things rationally or just agreed to disagree and move on. But some would rather tilt at semantic windmills ad nauseum and proclaim themselves the only critical thinkers amidst a sea of moronic homers. I call it the Felger/Deus contrarian syndrome. Equating critic with critical and and anyone who doesn't agree with that a blind homer (even if they used to be a favorite seemingly intelligent poster...). Felger developed this syndrome the day Michael Holly released Patriot Reign. For Deus it was the day Seymour got traded...

If Brady released a statement tomorrow saying he is reporting to camp and will play the season under his existing contract because he respects the game too much to do otherwise, and his relationship with the organization will not be impacted by the lack of an extension because even though he wants one he respects the fact that the organization is disciplined in it's handling of all personnel matters and he trusts they will take care of business when the timing is right...Deus would be the first to post that this proves (he and) Silver was right to say there is a disconnect and that their personal relationships aren't great is pretty apparent, but obviously Brady isn't going to allow it to interfere with his season or the teams. That's one of the reason's Brady doesn't bother to say much when asked about contract negotiations beyond sure he'd like to have a new deal but we're (elite players) all overpaid anyway and he's focused on getting back on the field with his coaches and teamates... Nobody listens, rather the fritics parse his comments seeking confirmation of discontent.

And I will repeat, the analogies offered of what happened with Milloy (who after one ring was coasting on the field and becoming a negative leader the locker room), and Bledsoe (who was uncoachable and according to his last two HC's insubordinate and hated Belichick and couldn't run his offense anyway to save his job), and Seymour (who didn't earn his big extension and never really was all in or a positive leader and never forgave Bill for benching him for a quarter once), and guys like Willie looking for more than they were worth heading into their dotage, or a fragile WR or ballhawking CB who thought they were superstars, or guys who retired as Patriots of their own volition being in any way related to the situation Brady is in at this juncture of his HOF career is pretty nonsensical.

Do these clowns honestly believe NE is the only franchise where all the players don't finish their careers arm and arm with management singing Kumbayah? Generally speaking here and elsewhere guys who consistently deliver at a high level and are team leaders and care more about winning every last Lombardi than collecting every last cent they can and who respect the game and themselves and their organization enough to walk away when they believe they no longer can...those are the guys you keep to retirement. I would be shocked if like Tedy Bruschi and Troy Brown and Rodney Harrison, Tom Brady isn't one of those guys. He will do whatever it takes to stay on top of his game for as long as he can, and when he can't he will go home of his own volition...but not to play for the 49'ers...to raise his kids and figure out what to do with the rest of his life after football.

And btw Kontra, Brady and Kraft did have dinner recently, and Kraft confirmed they have a special relationship, although I'm not aware of them ever attending a movie together unless it was the screening of one of the Three Games to Glory productions... As for Belichick whom Brady holds in great esteem, he and the lovely Linda and a scant handful of players were among the Brady supporters who participated in his Audi Best Friends Challenge on the Cape last month, after which there was a lovely clam bake.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually it would be so much better here if we could discuss things rationally or just agreed to disagree and move on. But some would rather tilt at semantic windmills ad nauseum and proclaim themselves the only critical thinkers amidst a sea of moronic homers. I call it the Felger/Deus contrarian syndrome. Equating critic with critical and and anyone who doesn't agree with that a blind homer (even if they used to be a favorite seemingly intelligent poster...). Felger developed this syndrome the day Michael Holly released Patriot Reign. For Deus it was the day Seymour got traded...

I was criticizing the team's moves before Seymour, and post-Seymour was no different. What you like to ignore is the reality that the criticism was sound and accurate. You'd rather pretend it was all just about wanting to disagree out of some level of anger or disappointment over one issue. You can wrap yourself up in team pajamas and deride those who didn't buy into the nonsense you were putting out about that team, but the season is over, and it showed the problems that so many (because it wasn't just me, no matter how you try to wrap it up into the "Felger/Deus" crap) were noting.

Unfortunately for you, the elephant in the room is that the team's words and actions have shown that it understands that they were bad moves and decisions, and that those of us who were criticizing those moves were right to do so.

 

[Deus Irae]

If Brady released a statement tomorrow saying he is reporting to camp and will play the season under his existing contract because he respects the game too much to do otherwise, and his relationship with the organization will not be impacted by the lack of an extension because even though he wants one he respects the fact that the organization is disciplined in it's handling of all personnel matters and he trusts they will take care of business when the timing is right...Deus would be the first to post that this proves (he and) Silver was right to say there is a disconnect and that their personal relationships aren't great is pretty apparent, but obviously Brady isn't going to allow it to interfere with his season or the teams. That's one of the reason's Brady doesn't bother to say much when asked about contract negotiations beyond sure he'd like to have a new deal but we're (elite players) all overpaid anyway and he's focused on getting back on the field with his coaches and teamates... Nobody listens, rather the fritics parse his comments seeking confirmation of discontent.

Interesting theory. Of course, once again, it conflicts with the reality of what's actually gone on, and what I've actually said on the issue:

I have no idea whether there's a "disconnect or not". Frankly, I won't really worry about it even if it turns out the be true. There's no way in hell that the owners will sign a new CBA that doesn't keep some method of 'franchising' top players for at least a season or two in order to ease into a new system, so Brady's not going anywhere no matter how disconnected he might feel. Teams just won't allow a Brady or Manning to be lost in that manner.

However, the attacks that posters here make towards the media every time a story comes out which is not 100% ballwashing of the Patriots just get ridiculous.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/343693-si-today-disconnect-between-pats-brady.html#post1835349

 

[PatsFanSince74]

...
At the same time, I think we should all take notice how many times Reiss says one word. That word is: "THINK". Reiss is essentially giving his opinion here, however educated it may be. It stands to reason that he could either be very right (which is what I'm going with given his history) or very wrong. He THINKS they have a good business relationship. He THINKS that Brady could be or has been influenced by other veterans departing after asking for more money. He THINKS that the two sides have a common understanding. He DOESN'T THINK there is any animosity between the two sides. He DOESN'T THINK Brady is coming into camp angry. These are very key words here. Reiss doesn't know for certain either way, and I believe we should all keep that in mind when looking at and judging this.

Impressive analysis. I agree 100% with the part I excised. Focusing just on the part I quote above:

I listened to the tape a few times because I think he's our best shot at knowing what's going on. Reiss qualifies what he says in three ways:

1) His reporting. He makes that comment about "bringing some reporting" to the discussion and then says that in the "last day" he learned that they weren't doing a lot of talking right now but that they had been talking "for the better part of last year" about a deal. He concludes those remarks by saying that he doesn't expect a deal in the near future. So, that's what he "reports."

2) He very carefully qualifies one statement as "just my opinion" when he describes the position that Kraft is in as an important part of the owners' group vis a vis giving out a big contract with the CBA still under discussion. That could either mean that he's guessing or that he had an off the record conversation with someone "close to" Kraft and agreed that he wouldn't characterize it as something that a Patriots insider said, so he goes out of his way to say this is "just my opinion." As a Journalism student, you know that "off the record" can mean a lot of things, including "not for attribution," meaning that the reporter can use the information but not attribute it to anyone in the organization. If that's true in this case, then this information is probably the single most important thing that Reiss said.

3) The rest of what he says is exactly as you describe it. He constantly says "I think." To me this means, he is saying what makes sense to him based on his general knowledge of the Patriots and the people involved as a reporter, but he doesn't know nor is he presenting himself as knowing anything particular relating to the contract discussion.

For me, (3) is enough, since I regard Reiss as the most perceptive guy around when it comes to reading the Patriots. If he says he'll be "shocked" if Tommy holds out, that's good enough for me. He's not saying he specifically knows that he won't hold out, just that he'd be shocked if he did, based on everything else he knows.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Folks, step back and realize what we're doing during these threads. Posters are using their considerable and impressive reading and verbal analysis skills to parse the comments of sports analyists in minute detail. I'd wager that those writers making the comments did not input a fraction of the thoughtful consideration before making them than has been done here ex-post-facto. It's off season and we're grasping at scintillas of 'information'.

Let camp begin!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Folks, step back and realize what we're doing during these threads. Posters are using their considerable and impressive reading and verbal analysis skills to parse the comments of sports analyists in minute detail. I'd wager that those writers making the comments did not input a fraction of the thoughtful consideration before making them than has been done here ex-post-facto. It's off season and we're grasping at scintillas of 'information'.

Let camp begin!

I agree on camp beginning, but for the rest, I think the attention to what someone like Reiss says is understandable because otherwise we know so little about something that is important to all of us. Reiss is probably the only media observer of the Pats whom most of us respect.

One can reasonably argue that, in the grand scheme of things, Brady's contract shouldn't be all that important to us, but following and caring deeply about the Pats is something that many have decided is important and worth some of our leisure time.

 

[Synovia]

Question starts around 4:25. Answer (minus the "Ya know" stuff)

The word "great" comes at 4:40

Also:

runs through 4:46.



You need to read Silver's piece again, because there's no contradiction there. Silver talks about "disconnect" and "cool distance", not "upset". That's certainly not contradicted by anything Reiss said. Now, what people read into the article might well be a different story....



Silver's column about the growing disconnect



Yes, Reiss takes the not coming into camp angry approach, while others seem to feel there's more discontent than does Reiss. However, listen to Reiss again, and read Silver's piece again, and I think you'll find that a lot of posters owe Mr. Silver an apology.

Your ability to see things that simply aren't there is amazing.

 

[Synovia]

. What you like to ignore is the reality that the criticism was sound and accurate.

We're not ignoring it Deus. We just think its neither sound, nor accurate.

I have no idea whether there's a "disconnect or not". Frankly, I won't really worry about it even if it turns out the be true. There's no way in hell that the owners will sign a new CBA that doesn't keep some method of 'franchising' top players for at least a season or two in order to ease into a new system, so Brady's not going anywhere no matter how disconnected he might feel. Teams just won't allow a Brady or Manning to be lost in that manner.

However, the attacks that posters here make towards the media every time a story comes out which is not 100% ballwashing of the Patriots just get ridiculous.

At no point in the quote above does it say there is a disconnect, despite your insistence otherwise.

 

[JSn]

He and Kraft are not going to get together for dinner and a movie and have Kraft cut a hole in the bottom of the popcorn box and wait for Brady to stick his hand in there.

That's a brilliant idea!

 

[efin98]

That's a brilliant idea!

Might make for an awkward season though...

 

[tuckeverlasting]

brady holding out just sounds like another one of john clayton's wet dreams.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

At the end of the day you got to ask yourself, is Brady too Hollywood and poised to hold out and itching to move on or is Kraft inherently cheap and stupid enough to play himself into that scenario or are most of the local and national mediots simply brain dead or faking it to rile up the percentage of this fan base that is...

This NESN scribe makes the case for option 3...

Tom Brady Holdout Talks Are Completely, Utterly Meaningless - New England Patriots - NESN.com

 

[signbabybrady]

At the end of the day you got to ask yourself, is Brady too Hollywood and poised to hold out and itching to move on or is Kraft inherently cheap and stupid enough to play himself into that scenario or are most of the local and national mediots simply brain dead or faking it to rile up the percentage of this fan base that is...

This NESN scribe makes the case for option 3...

Tom Brady Holdout Talks Are Completely, Utterly Meaningless - New England Patriots - NESN.com

This poster thinks option three makes the most sense.