Mid-June Andre Carter update & contract watch

[patfanken]

I think the confusion lies however in the belief that the Giants could have just placed him on PUP right now and saved the roster spot. Because of Ballard's service time it seems they would have either had to wait and tie up one of those oh so important 90 roster spots, or waive him and hope he passed. Which they did.

They chose... foolishly.

That's it in a nutshell. The Giants thought that that 90th roster spot was worth more than a decent player who likely won't play in 2012. They clearly felt that no one would claim such a player, and for 30 teams they were right. And to a certain degree it made sense. MOST teams work hard at planning for the coming season, few teams are constantly looking at the future as well.

People should remember that Ballard is NOT a big time TE. He is what he is, a big TE who is a good blocker and although he is relatively slow, a capable and steady receiver. That's ot. As a potential back up to Gronk, a 3rd blocking TE, and depth he has value to the Pats in 2013....IF he recovers from his surguries. The Pats are paying a half a million THIS year for an asset they can't use until next year.....maybe. It was probably a risk that most teams didn't want to take.

Its also interesting to speculate that NEXT season the Pats will carry 4 TE's, and have 2 legitimate backups for their TE duo, with Ballard backing up Gronk, and Fells, Hernandez

BTW-Coughlin's "disappointment" was clearly aimed at his FO. My guess is the FO was so sure that no would claim him, that they made the transaction WITHOUT consulting the HC.

 

[mayoclinic]

People should remember that Ballard is NOT a big time TE. He is what he is, a big TE who is a good blocker and although he is relatively slow, a capable and steady receiver. That's it. As a potential back up to Gronk, a 3rd blocking TE, and depth he has value to the Pats in 2013....IF he recovers from his surguries. The Pats are paying a half a million THIS year for an asset they can't use until next year.....maybe. It was probably a risk that most teams didn't want to take.

Not so sure what you mean by "big time TE". Ballard's not Gronk ... no one is. But he's a 24 year old kid with great size who's a strong blocker, and who in his first year of playing time averaged 15.9 YPC and put up significantly better receiving numbers than Dan Graham every did for us. He had more receptions and yards receiving than Ben Watson had in 6 out of his 8 seasons. His 15.9 YPC was the best of any TE in the NFL in 2011. And given his youth and inexperience, it was a reasonable expectation that Ballard would have gotten better if not for his ACL injury. He may not be "elite" or an All Pro, but he's not just a "slow, capable and steady receiver" and back up, assuming he can recover from his injury.

 

[mayoclinic]

Jeff Howe updates the Andre Carter situation:

Still Andre Carter country? - BostonHerald.com

According to Howe, Carter wants to come back to the Pats to the point where he has declined overtures from other teams. But he's also looking for a 3-4 year deal at Pro Bowl DE kind of money according to Howe. I can't see the Pats going for that given Carter's age and coming off a significant injury.

 

[BradyManny]

Jeff Howe updates the Andre Carter situation:

Still Andre Carter country? - BostonHerald.com

According to Howe, Carter wants to come back to the Pats to the point where he has declined overtures from other teams. But he's also looking for a 3-4 year deal at Pro Bowl DE kind of money according to Howe. I can't see the Pats going for that given Carter's age and coming off a significant injury.

I can't really see anybody giving Carter that kind of deal, can you? This might be a situation where we have to let him test the market, find out what he's worth/not worth and if it works out, he ends up back here.

I really think Carter was our best defensive player when on the field last year, even over Big Vince. I thought he was a beast on all 3-downs. He's perfect in the lockerroom and he's exactly what we need to bring guys like Jones and Bequette along. Not just in terms of teaching them work ethic, being a professional, and being competitive - but also in showing them how to rush the passer. Carter is someone who is not just running off the edge, but has technique to his pass rush, and can use strength and hands. Jones has shown that in college and will earn his keep in the NFL by doing likewise in the pros.

All that said - with that injury and his age, how can you give him more than a one year prove it deal? I don't see it. We have the cap space to overpay for him for this year slightly (like we did with Shaun Ellis last year), give him an incentive laden deal that could end up being pricier. And hopefully that's good enough for both sides.

 

[resdubwhite]

I really think Carter was our best defensive player when on the field last year, even over Big Vince.

Now lets not say anything too hasty.

 

[patchick]

According to Howe, Carter wants to come back to the Pats to the point where he has declined overtures from other teams. But he's also looking for a 3-4 year deal at Pro Bowl DE kind of money according to Howe. I can't see the Pats going for that given Carter's age and coming off a significant injury.

Wow. I have tremendous respect for Carter, but that just doesn't sound close to realistic for a 33-year-old pass rusher who's still rehabbing a major leg injury. But maybe the reason he hasn't signed yet is he's trying to get back to the point where he has his full burst and can demonstrate in a workout that he's still the player he was last year?

IF he can get there, Carter-Ninkovich-Scott-Jones would give me more confidence than any Pats OLB/DE group in a long time. And the defense in general, adding Scott, Gregory, Jones, Hightower, Wilson and Dowling and subtracting...what of significance? Just Mark Anderson? I'll take that.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Jeff Howe updates the Andre Carter situation:

Still Andre Carter country? - BostonHerald.com

According to Howe, Carter wants to come back to the Pats to the point where he has declined overtures from other teams. But he's also looking for a 3-4 year deal at Pro Bowl DE kind of money according to Howe. I can't see the Pats going for that given Carter's age and coming off a significant injury.

Major Get Carter fan here, however fuggetaboutit if he wants that duration and $. Let him calibrate reality by testing the other 31 GMs but with a 2 year option 3rd year offer in his pocket from the Pats with performance incentive money bringing him to top third but not Pro Bowl level DE potential $.

 

[Jimke]

Now lets not say anything too hasty.

Don't know if he was better than Wilfork but he was our best pass rusher and a sure tackler against the run. Having said this, I think there has to be some
compromise on both sides to sign him. He is getting over a serious injury and the Patriots have to take that into account.

 

[patsfan13]

Would love to see this guy back in addition to being a beast if healthy he would be a great mentor for C Jones, great example of how to be a PRO at that position.

 

[jah]

Now lets not say anything too hasty.

Yeah, seriously. Vince put the team on his back last year. Team MVP by far.

 

[BradyManny]

Yeah, seriously. Vince put the team on his back last year. Team MVP by far.

I understand the sentiment - but what I saw was Carter affecting the game more than Wilfork until the injury. Carter was a 3-down beast. It doesn't take anything away from Vince who had a great season.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Carter is at an impasse with the Pats...he wants a long term deal.

Andre Carter wants long-term deal from Patriots - NFL.com

I loved Carter's play last season but he does not deserve a long term contract at 33 years old.

I think with the serious injury in 2011 that he should be a year to year contract player....no team will give Carter a multi year deal.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Hope he comes back.

Just remember seeing him lay Sanchez on his back in that Jets away game last season like 3 times. It was great, he is awesome for us.

 

[Sicilian]

I understand the sentiment - but what I saw was Carter affecting the game more than Wilfork until the injury. Carter was a 3-down beast. It doesn't take anything away from Vince who had a great season.

The nature of the positions they play makes it easier to see the impact of Carter over Wilfork, but I still think Wilfork was more valuable to this D last year, hands down. I feel like the defense improved after Carter's injury (not BECAUSE of the injury, just in spite of it), and losing Wilfork would have had a much bigger impact.

 

[patsox23]

If any 33-year old is bankable for a long-term deal, it's Andre Carter. He's in sick shape, sick in the good way, that is. Give him three years, see what happens. I'm sure there's a creative way to protect the team and our cap.

 

[BradyManny]

The nature of the positions they play makes it easier to see the impact of Carter over Wilfork, but I still think Wilfork was more valuable to this D last year, hands down. I feel like the defense improved after Carter's injury (not BECAUSE of the injury, just in spite of it), and losing Wilfork would have had a much bigger impact.

Fair enough - Wilfork's value is undeniable. He is irreplaceable. Losing him would be worse than losing Carter - but part of that has to do with replacement. I would still argue that maybe Carter had a bigger impact in his play at times, but will grant you that Wilfork is far more valuable.

As for the defense improving after Carter was gone - we agree that's a function of the other 10 guys out there, and the returning health of key players (Chung, Spikes).

If Carter had been there, I like to think this defense could've prevented Eli from going the length of the field with such incredible ease that it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. In fact, I know it wouldn't have been that easy with Carter out there - and the game might've been in hand by that point if he was there to make the key play or two on defense that never happened.

 

[pdangle]

There's no way the pats give a 33 yr old situational rusher coming off a nearly unprecedented injury with no camp a 3 or 4 (ha!) yr contract.

He did great last year. But so did basically everyone we plugged in there it seemed. Probably because Vince had two guys on him constantly.

Anyway im sure NE appreciates all he did and all, but he got paid for that already thank you very much. Until he shows he has it back on the field he's a short term flyer at best.

Ahh.. He does realize he'd be 37? Is there even such a precedent.

He's one player surprisingly I don't think will be missed production-wise, either via new players stepping in and/or this injury or his age catching up, if he can't or won't come back.

But heck give him a 10 yr non gauranteed low bonus contract if he wants and let him fight for a spot like everyone else. The cream will rise. Just don't buy the cow.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I understand the sentiment - but what I saw was Carter affecting the game more than Wilfork until the injury. Carter was a 3-down beast. It doesn't take anything away from Vince who had a great season.

That is what the casual observer would have seen, since sacks are such a flashy stat. There is a reason why BB made Wilfork the highest paid NT ever, and it doesn't show up on a stats sheet.

 

[Ring 6]

If any 33-year old is bankable for a long-term deal, it's Andre Carter. He's in sick shape, sick in the good way, that is. Give him three years, see what happens. I'm sure there's a creative way to protect the team and our cap.

He just had an injury that could be career threatening, and may take away the strength of his game. Severe leg injuries don't just heal, esp at 33, and have you go back to what you were.
I think he has a good chance to make it back on the field this year, but it is very far from a certainty that he will be back anywhere near 100%.

 

[Ring 6]

I understand the sentiment - but what I saw was Carter affecting the game more than Wilfork until the injury. Carter was a 3-down beast. It doesn't take anything away from Vince who had a great season.

I think you will have a very hard time finding anyone who watched the DL play agree with that.