Mayo Mayo Mayo

[sbpatfan]

Bart Scott is better than Mayo? I can't stop laughing. You could cut off one of Mayo's arms and he'd still be better than Scott. Baltimorepatfan = closeted jets troll.

 

[Calciumee]

Mayo is a good player but honestly IMO the two inside linebackers the Jets have, David Harris and Bart Scott, are both as good as Mayo, if not better.

 

[randomk1]

Harris is overrated. Scott is pretty good, but not $8M a year good or Mayo good.

Harris is better than Scott imo. Scott gets alot of attention because of his big mouth and playing on one of the best defenses of the last decade.

 

[Off The Grid]

Baltimore *Alleged* Pats Fan...

He ain't too bright.

 

[BlueThunder]

I wouldn't mind having Harris on the Pats...but the pricetag is too big...let him eat the Jet's cap....

 

[TheComeback]

Harris is better than Scott imo. Scott gets alot of attention because of his big mouth and playing on one of the best defenses of the last decade.

Harris is underrated. If he and Mayo were paired together, they'd be unstoppable and easily become the best ILB combination in the league.

Hopefully Spikes can develop into a Harris-caliber player. He definitely has the talent, he just needs to refine his mental game.

 

[Deus Irae]

Harris is underrated. If he and Mayo were paired together, they'd be unstoppable and easily become the best ILB combination in the league.

Hopefully Spikes can develop into a Harris-caliber player. He definitely has the talent, he just needs to refine his mental game.

I'm looking at Mayo/Spikes as the new version of Bruschi/Johnson. Spikes, like Johnson, will be the thumper who just shuts down opponents who try to run at him, and Mayo will play the Bruschi role of all around ILB.

I'd like to see them avoid the injury issues as much as possible, though.

 

[Sciz]

Harris is underrated. If he and Mayo were paired together, they'd be unstoppable and easily become the best ILB combination in the league.

Hopefully Spikes can develop into a Harris-caliber player. He definitely has the talent, he just needs to refine his mental game.

Harris is just a slower version of Mayo. Scott is the block-buster that you want next to Mayo.

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

I couldn't possibly care any less about how many tackles Mayo racked up last season. If Mayo is a better player than Harris/Scott simply because he got more tackles, then London Fletcher would be Canton bound and also the Pats wouldn't have brought in Spikes and Fletcher because Paris Lenon, who was coming off a 120 tackle season on an awful defense when he signed with the Pats a couple of years ago, would be dominating with Mayo right now.

Bart Scott and David Harris are two of the best players on arguably the league's best defense, so I don't see why it's crazy to suggest that they're better than the leader of a defense that made a lot of plays here and there but was still below average at best, especially in the playoffs.

 

[ausbacker]

I couldn't possibly care any less about how many tackles Mayo racked up last season. If Mayo is a better player than Harris/Scott simply because he got more tackles, then London Fletcher would be Canton bound and also the Pats wouldn't have brought in Spikes and Fletcher because Paris Lenon, who was coming off a 120 tackle season on an awful defense when he signed with the Pats a couple of years ago, would be dominating with Mayo right now.

Bart Scott and David Harris are two of the best players on arguably the league's best defense, so I don't see why it's crazy to suggest that they're better than the leader of a defense that made a lot of plays here and there but was still below average at best, especially in the playoffs.

Probably because two players at a considerably higher cost = 1 player's production.

It's not crazy to make your suggestion at all.. it's downright stupid.

 

[Deus Irae]

I couldn't possibly care any less about how many tackles Mayo racked up last season. If Mayo is a better player than Harris/Scott simply because he got more tackles, then London Fletcher would be Canton bound and also the Pats wouldn't have brought in Spikes and Fletcher because Paris Lenon, who was coming off a 120 tackle season on an awful defense when he signed with the Pats a couple of years ago, would be dominating with Mayo right now.

Bart Scott and David Harris are two of the best players on arguably the league's best defense, so I don't see why it's crazy to suggest that they're better than the leader of a defense that made a lot of plays here and there but was still below average at best, especially in the playoffs.

It's crazy because neither is even close to his level, and you're claiming both are better.

 

[Professor Frink]

I think people are giving BaltimorePatsFan way too much crap for his statement. Harris and Scott are both excellent LBs and personally I think David Harris is every bit the player Mayo is. What is it exactly that Mayo does so much better than him? Is he better in coverage? As a blitzer? Can he peel off blocks better? I don't see any of that, and don't just throw tackle numbers at me, there is a hell of a lot more that goes into evaluating an ILB than just tackles.

As far as Scott goes, I think it's pretty clear he doesn't have the athleticism and raw talent that Mayo and Harris have. Because of that, he plays a different type of role than the other two, he does more of the dirty work. As far as effectiveness in his role goes, he is fantastic. Those low tackle numbers do not represent the kind of high impact player he is to a run defense. He's also an excellent blitzer and has the speed to run down players who attack the edge.

Any respected football analyst and they will tell you Bart Scott's high level of play has had an enormous impact on the Jets' defense the last two years.

I still believe Mayo is the better player, but it's certainly not as one-sided as people in this thread want to believe.

 

[ausbacker]

I think people are giving BaltimorePatsFan way too much crap for his statement. Harris and Scott are both excellent LBs and personally I think David Harris is every bit the player Mayo is. What is it exactly that Mayo does so much better than him? Is he better in coverage? As a blitzer? Can he peel off blocks better? I don't see any of that, and don't just throw tackle numbers at me, there is a hell of a lot more that goes into evaluating an ILB than just tackles.

As far as Scott goes, I think it's pretty clear he doesn't have the athleticism and raw talent that Mayo and Harris have. Because of that, he plays a different type of role than the other two, he does more of the dirty work. As far as effectiveness in his role goes, he is fantastic. Those low tackle numbers do not represent the kind of high impact player he is to a run defense. He's also an excellent blitzer and has the speed to run down players who attack the edge.

Any respected football analyst and they will tell you Bart Scott's high level of play has had an enormous impact on the Jets' defense the last two years.

I still believe Mayo is the better player, but it's certainly not as one-sided as people in this thread want to believe.

If you'd bothered to watch the NFL with any sort of depth across the last 3 years you'd understand why people are rolling around on the floor with laughter.

It really is that simple. Go back over some tape if you have any recordings and just use the eyeball test without referring to the stats sheet.

 

[Professor Frink]

If you'd bothered to watch the NFL with any sort of depth across the last 3 years you'd understand why people are rolling around on the floor with laughter.

It really is that simple. Go back over some tape if you have any recordings and just use the eyeball test without referring to the stats sheet.

You know, I like how you didn't feel the need to address or counter any of the points I made. For you, a satisfactory post is to come on here and tell me I don't follow football closely enough to understand what is obviously a basic fact.

But believe it or not, I do watch football, and I like to think I'm not a complete idiot, so maybe you could just indulge me?

When I use the ol' eyeball test, I come away thinking that Bart Scott and David Harris were critical contributors to excellent defenses the last two years. In fact, besides Revis, I would say they were the two best players on that unit. That defense has averaged 16.8 ppg the last two years. I think if either of them went down it would have a large negative impact on that defense.

Am I crazy? Are these guys not actually very good players? I'm asking you, because obviously you watch the NFL with depth and understanding that a simpleton like me couldn't hope to know. Going back to my original question, what exactly is it that Harris can't do that Mayo is so great at?

I eagerly anticipate the wealth of knowledge you're about to bestow upon me.

 

[ausbacker]

You know, I like how you didn't feel the need to address or counter any of the points I made. For you, a satisfactory post is to come on here and tell me I don't follow football closely enough to understand what is obviously a basic fact.

But believe it or not, I do watch football, and I like to think I'm not a complete idiot, so maybe you could just indulge me?

When I use the ol' eyeball test, I come away thinking that Bart Scott and David Harris were critical contributors to excellent defenses the last two years. In fact, besides Revis, I would say they were the two best players on that unit. That defense has averaged 16.8 ppg the last two years. I think if either of them went down it would have a large negative impact on that defense.

Am I crazy? Are these guys not actually very good players? I'm asking you, because obviously you watch the NFL with depth and understanding that a simpleton like me couldn't hope to know. Going back to my original question, what exactly is it that Harris can't do that Mayo is so great at?

I eagerly anticipate the wealth of knowledge you're about to bestow upon me.

You didn't make any counterpoints. You rode in on a horse, listed a few comments without providing a meaningful comparison between the two and expected a sense of entitlement in a response knowing that Mayo has considerably outperformed both of those players and almost both of them combined.

You obviously don't follow football closely enough if you can't provide your own comparative analysis when making a blanket statement. Dirty this, no athleticism that. It's a great load of toss to say this guy is old and **** but it's my opinion that he's good.

Anyone with half a brain knows Jim Leonhard is the cog that makes the Jets defense go, everyone also knows Jerod Mayo is the cog that makes the Patriots defense go. Attempting to dismiss the production of a young ILB in a developing defense to a veteran & middle age ILB in a veteran defense is borderline stupid because of the defense itself. It's like saying Patrick Willis is crap because the 49ers are crap and Jacob Tamme is awesome because the Colts are awesome. It doesn't work that way.

Here's the answer to your question - everything.

 

[jsull87]

If you'd bothered to watch the NFL with any sort of depth across the last 3 years you'd understand why people are rolling around on the floor with laughter.

It really is that simple. Go back over some tape if you have any recordings and just use the eyeball test without referring to the stats sheet.

Nopt just that... i challenge anyone to explain to me any aspect of harris and scott's play that is supperior to Mayo. I personally think Harris is very good... but Mayo just as good if not better in (once again IMO) every aspect of the game. You can make an argument for mayo in not just the eyeball test but stats as well.

 

[Professor Frink]

You didn't make any counterpoints. You rode in on a horse, listed a few comments without providing a meaningful comparison between the two and expected a sense of entitlement in a response knowing that Mayo has considerably outperformed both of those players and almost both of them combined.

You obviously don't follow football closely enough if you can't provide your own comparative analysis when making a blanket statement. Dirty this, no athleticism that. It's a great load of toss to say this guy is old and **** but it's my opinion that he's good.

Anyone with half a brain knows Jim Leonhard is the cog that makes the Jets defense go, everyone also knows Jerod Mayo is the cog that makes the Patriots defense go. Attempting to dismiss the production of a young ILB in a developing defense to a veteran & middle age ILB in a veteran defense is borderline stupid because of the defense itself. It's like saying Patrick Willis is crap because the 49ers are crap and Jacob Tamme is awesome because the Colts are awesome. It doesn't work that way.

Here's the answer to your question - everything.

First, when you say Mayo has "considerably outperformed" them, it doesn't mean anything other than he has more tackles. If you looked at sacks, FFs, INTs, and pass deflections, you'll see he hasn't considerably outperformed either of them. So if the whole basis of your argument is that Mayo is better because of the tackle numbers, then I think you don't follow football closely enough. Tackles are just one metric used in measuring a player's impact, and not a very good one.

Second, you accuse me of dismissing Mayo's production when I have done no such thing. I'm simply not dismissing quality players simply because they wear the wrong jersey.

Third, it's disappointing how poorly you understood my argument. I'm not saying the Jets defense is good, so that makes Scott and Harris good. I'm saying Scott and Harris playing at such a high level is what makes it possible for that defense to be so good.

I never said you can't be a good football player on a bad unit, so your Patrick Willis comparison is useless. But I do think if an offensive or defensive unit has consistent success, it's probably fair to say that said unit has some very good football players. Instead of Jacob Tamme, I'm saying Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark are awesome, and it's because of the huge role they play in making that offense go.

Lastly, your assertion that Jim Leonhard has a larger impact than either LB is truly laughable. Yes, Leonhard makes the calls in the secondary and helps get guys lined up, but that's a long way away from being the "cog that makes the Jets defense go." The truth is, in a perfect world, he would be a rotational safety playing part time.

He can be very effective when he can be used for run support near the LOS, blitzing off the edge, and maybe covering a RB in the flat. However, if you need him to play a more traditional safety role, you'll see him get lost in space and get torched in man to man. He's too small and slow, and Jets fans saw last year how at times, he can be a real liability out there.

 

[BlueThunder]

Not sure if this affects the stats, but remember....Mayo was without the services of Spikes for the last 4 games of the season due to Spike's suspension for using a drug for a condition he has.

I like Harris and wish he were a Patriot (because then he WOULDN'T be a Jet) ....but happy with Mayo/Spikes combo ...young and haven't hit their peaks yet...

 

[Deus Irae]

You know, I like how you didn't feel the need to address or counter any of the points I made. For you, a satisfactory post is to come on here and tell me I don't follow football closely enough to understand what is obviously a basic fact.

But believe it or not, I do watch football, and I like to think I'm not a complete idiot, so maybe you could just indulge me?

When I use the ol' eyeball test, I come away thinking that Bart Scott and David Harris were critical contributors to excellent defenses the last two years. In fact, besides Revis, I would say they were the two best players on that unit. That defense has averaged 16.8 ppg the last two years. I think if either of them went down it would have a large negative impact on that defense.

Am I crazy? Are these guys not actually very good players? I'm asking you, because obviously you watch the NFL with depth and understanding that a simpleton like me couldn't hope to know. Going back to my original question, what exactly is it that Harris can't do that Mayo is so great at?

I eagerly anticipate the wealth of knowledge you're about to bestow upon me.

So statistics aren't good enough. How, exactly, would you allow yourself to be convinced that you're wrong on the subject? I don't ask this to be snarky, but in order to see if there's any way someone could change your mind on the issue.

 

[Professor Frink]

So statistics aren't good enough. How, exactly, would you allow yourself to be convinced that you're wrong on the subject? I don't ask this to be snarky, but in order to see if there's any way someone could change your mind on the issue.

I don't really see it as a matter of right or wrong. Grading football players can be a very subjective process, especially when it's done by people who aren't experts (everyone on this forum.) If you feel Mayo is better than Harris (not unreasonable IMO) the only thing I'm looking for is what your basing that off of, with a little more nuance than just "it's obvious."

Do you think Harris struggles fighting off blocks? Do you think he has less range? Like I said earlier, from what I can tell they're pretty similar players. I don't see Harris get beat in coverage quite as much (which could contribute to lower tackle numbers) and I think he's got an edge as far as his contributions as a blitzer and pass rusher.

I'm not an expert, but I'm also not an idiot. If there's a specific part of my analysis you disagree with, or more context you feel you can add to the discussion, have at it. I might have my mind changed with good discussion, I might not, but it doesn't matter. I'm not posting in this thread trying to "prove" anything. I'm just interested in honest discussion on the matter.

In my mind, telling someone they don't know enough about football and saying "Mayo is better in every single way imaginable" doesn't qualify as honest discussion. At that point, I'm more inclined to believe that the only thing Mayo does to appease that poster is wear the correct jersey.