Malcolm Butler

[RayClay]

Well, for Otis in 2001 he had 2 INTs, 2 sacks, 55 tackles , 2 TDs and 19 PDs. He was a very physical CB. He was All-Pro caliber that year. I just remember him making play after play after play. Thats why I ranked him/combo so highly. He performed very well for the era in which he played in.

I agree on Browner. He was good in 2014 - but not great.

Also, the nickel back was Terrell Buckley, former 1st round pick [5th overall!] Good ballhawk.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Even without Brown, they've got enough talent signed for next year that I don't think a high draft pick is needed.

 

[VectorPrime]

Even without Brown, they've got enough talent signed for next year that I don't think a high draft pick is needed.

Well that's good because we don't have a high draft pick!

 

[supafly]

Even without Brown, they've got enough talent signed for next year that I don't think a high draft pick is needed.

I hear what you're saying and even agree with you that high picks at positions such as CB, RB, WR etc aren't "needed," and that's what's great with this team. It seems like every spring we're always in a position of luxury when it comes to the draft.

That said, I do think that those 3 positions should be addressed, and if Belichick decides that there's value in the 2nd/3rd rounds, all the better.

 

[supafly]

Well that's good because we don't have a high draft pick!

We have a 2nd and two 3rds, so there's certainly room to maneuver, should Belichick feel like it.

Either way, we should still have the usual several or so picks in the top 100, so hopefully the loss of the first rounder doesn't hurt too badly.

 

[Fencer]

I'm still hoping he gets extended this year, maybe during the playoffs but more likely during the offseason, for something around 5 years averaging 8 per, with a really good set of incentives, fully guaranteed for the first couple of years and just for injury on later years. I think he's smart enough to go for that, it's a good deal for both sides.

If he does not go for it he plays next year for less than 10% of that, and bears the risk of injury with no relief. Dion Lewis is a good example of the wisdom in taking an early extension even if it looks like leaving money on the table.

His agent is a hometown lawyer with only one NFL client: Malcolm Butler. He's not likely to get his head turned by maximizing bling potential, Butler knows who are the people who got him to where he is and gave him the chance to make the most of his talents. If he's smart he'll look at how much better $8,000,000 a year is than frying chicken at Popeye's not how much less it is than $10,000,000 a year later with the risk of injury during that year making it nada. I think he's smart enough to see that.

Unfortunately, the discount Butler needs to give is limited by the cost of a literal insurance policy. What's that? 10% of the amount he's covered for? (I'm making that number up, but it seems plausible.) So the danger of a career-ending injury isn't enough to make a huge hometown discount rational.

The McCourty analogy however enters in as well. He made the Pro Bowl at CB even earlier in his career than Butler did, but never earned a top-CB-$ contract.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Also, the nickel back was Terrell Buckley, former 1st round pick [5th overall!] Good ballhawk.

Yep!

The 2001 defense was stacked.

 

[Concussion Protocol]

Yep!

The 2001 defense was stacked.

They were an interesting unit:
Not good at stopping the run (4.3 YPC against)...
.....yet great at preventing rushing TDs (7 allowed all year)
Great at preventing completions (54.8%, best in the NFL)...
.....yet when they did give up completions, they paid dearly (12.5 YPC, bottom 5 in the NFL)

24th in yards
6th in points allowed

Got a lot of turnovers (35, league average 30)

Not sure about redzone defense, but I'm guessing it was good based on their points allowed.

Bottom line, they did the important things well, and they did them really well when it really mattered.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They were an interesting unit:
Not good at stopping the run (4.3 YPC against)...
.....yet great at preventing rushing TDs (7 allowed all year)
Great at preventing completions (54.8%, best in the NFL)...
.....yet when they did give up completions, they paid dearly (12.5 YPC, bottom 5 in the NFL)

24th in yards
6th in points allowed

Got a lot of turnovers (35, league average 30)

Not sure about redzone defense, but I'm guessing it was good based on their points allowed.

Bottom line, they did the important things well, and they did them really well when it really mattered.

I agree.

History has proven that they had a ton of talent. It just wasn't popular yet.

They didn't get their act together until November.

Other notable stats as of November 1.
-Over their last 12 games (inc playoffs) they went 11-1 and allowed 15.6ppg.
-3rd in defensive passer rating
-1st in completion % against

 

[Concussion Protocol]

I agree.

History has proven that they had a ton of talent. It just wasn't popular yet.

They didn't get their act together until November.

Other notable stats as of November 1.
-Over their last 12 games (inc playoffs) they went 11-1 and allowed 15.6ppg.
-3rd in defensive passer rating
-1st in completion % against

Meanwhile, 3 teams gave up less than 14 ppg. Yes, the league has changed a tad in the last 14 years. The 2001 Bears gave up 12.7 ppg. I honestly don't even remember them other than a young Urlacher becoming a star.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree.

History has proven that they had a ton of talent. It just wasn't popular yet.

They didn't get their act together until November.

Other notable stats as of November 1.
-Over their last 12 games (inc playoffs) they went 11-1 and allowed 15.6ppg.
-3rd in defensive passer rating
-1st in completion % against

Iirc they did not allow more than 17 points in any game in the 9 game win streak that ended with the Lombardi. That stat dwarfs all others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RobertWeathers]

Meanwhile, 3 teams gave up less than 14 ppg. Yes, the league has changed a tad in the last 14 years. The 2001 Bears gave up 12.7 ppg. I honestly don't even remember them other than a young Urlacher becoming a star.

Yea me neither although I do remember Ted Washington, Traylor and Colvin were on that Bears team.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Iirc they did not allow more than 17 points in any game in the 9 game win streak that ended with the Lombardi. That stat dwarfs all others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea I cherry-picked 12 b/c they played well in the 2 games before the loss to STL - which I thought that they played pretty well in. Smith doesnt fumble on the 1 its a different game.

Even the DEN game when they gave up 31 in DEN. Last four Pats possessions ended with Brady INTs.

 

[Brady6]

I think Johnson is doing more then anyone could ask for after 2 weeks. Considering we got him off the WW. Right now with his performance id be more then happy to bring him back for the 90 man.
Brown looked good before he got hurt. We won't need him as a starter, and if healthy, he's the perfect player for a depth stand point. Having veterans is always a plus, from both a leader stand point, and the fact that if something happens to your starters mid-late season, its always better to throw someone with experience in then a rookie, or young inexperienced player.

You know who was considered JAG less then 4 months ago, both Ryan and Butler. Hopefully Bill moves forward to lock both Butler & ryan up for a few years at a decent cost. If thats the case, we won't need a high pick CB.

Im never one who believes in drafting WR's high, but it might be a luxury we can afford this season considering this draft is looking to be deep in the WR department. Either that or an OT. Thing is, its usually hard to find an elite type of talent for an OT in the late 2nd, which makes that doubtful.

I never considered Butler or Ryan a JAG. I have been a fan of Ryan's since pre draft in 2013. Butler showed promise since his first day of camp in 2014, he started all 4 preseason games as a rookie, including 2 with Revis at the other CB spot.

I have seen Johnson multiple times since he entered the NFL and I can tell you he is a serviceable slot CB, who could give us what Arrington gave us, but he isn't a high ceiling player.

I really like Coleman, I think he can be a real good CB. I absolutely love Roberts, I had him right there with Byron Jones prior to the 15' draft. Freakish athlete with terrific ball skills, with the right coaching he has the skill set to be a top 5 CB in the NFL.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

I never considered Butler or Ryan a JAG. I have been a fan of Ryan's since pre draft in 2013. Butler showed promise since his first day of camp in 2014, he started all 4 preseason games as a rookie, including 2 with Revis at the other CB spot.

I have seen Johnson multiple times since he entered the NFL and I can tell you he is a serviceable slot CB, who could give us what Arrington gave us, but he isn't a high ceiling player.

I really like Coleman, I think he can be a real good CB. I absolutely love Roberts, I had him right there with Byron Jones prior to the 15' draft. Freakish athlete with terrific ball skills, with the right coaching he has the skill set to be a top 5 CB in the NFL.

If we have one Pro bowl CB (Butler) and one of the highest rated CB's over the 2nd half of the season (Ryan) and two upcoming corners in which one you say you love (Roberts) One who you think can be a top 5 CB in the NFL with "the right coaching" (Hello does Belichick ring a bell). My Question to you is, why would you suggest we draft a CB High? Yes, I get that we might eventually lose either Ryan or Butler to FA, but we still essentially have 2 years with the Franchise tag and proper GM'ing.

 

[Brady6]

If we have one Pro bowl CB (Butler) and one of the highest rated CB's over the 2nd half of the season (Ryan) and two upcoming corners in which one you say you love (Roberts) One who you think can be a top 5 CB in the NFL with "the right coaching" (Hello does Belichick ring a bell). My Question to you is, why would you suggest we draft a CB High? Yes, I get that we might eventually lose either Ryan or Butler to FA, but we still essentially have 2 years with the Franchise tag and proper GM'ing.

Because as much as I like the upside of Coleman and Roberts I am far from an expert scout so I would prefer we add some additional depth and another potential starting quality CB. I worry that Logan Ryan is going to price himself off the Patriots.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Because as much as I like the upside of Coleman and Roberts I am far from an expert scout so I would prefer we add some additional depth and another potential starting quality CB. I worry that Logan Ryan is going to price himself off the Patriots.

Logan Ryan is doing a good job, but I see him being a Byron Maxwell type of player if he leaves.
I hope teams look at CB and the system they use more closely after what happened with Maxwell this season. lol

 

[VrabelJr]

Logan Ryan is doing a good job, but I see him being a Byron Maxwell type of player if he leaves.
I hope teams look at CB and the system they use more closely after what happened with Maxwell this season. lol

It happens to at least 1 CB every off season.

 

[jah]

Unfortunately, the discount Butler needs to give is limited by the cost of a literal insurance policy. What's that? 10% of the amount he's covered for? (I'm making that number up, but it seems plausible.) So the danger of a career-ending injury isn't enough to make a huge hometown discount rational.

The McCourty analogy however enters in as well. He made the Pro Bowl at CB even earlier in his career than Butler did, but never earned a top-CB-$ contract.

By the time McCourty re-signed, he had been neither a cornerback nor a Pro Bowler for years. I was pretty confident we could lock Butler up for something like 4 years/$25M but now that he made the Pro Bowl in his first season as a starter, all bets are off.

 

[Brady6]

By the time McCourty re-signed, he had been neither a cornerback nor a Pro Bowler for years. I was pretty confident we could lock Butler up for something like 4 years/$25M but now that he made the Pro Bowl in his first season as a starter, all bets are off.

McCourty was a 2nd team all pro in 2013.