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Looking ahead: Mainly Speculation on next years draft FA...


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say the Pats get SF's pick between 4-7ish. Does the money spent on Rookie signings come out of the same "bucket" as FA money? How much would this (relatively high pick for the Pats) impact thier ability to resign players?

-f

They'll probably trade down (for two picks) unless there's a absolute blue chip prospect available and maybe not even then.
 
You're either a) A very recent fan of b) Haven't actually seen a game.

Kevin Faulk is the best pure 3rd down back in the league.

He is the all-time leader in receptions from a running back on the Patriots.

He is a SICK, SICK pass blocker. Throw in the fact that he's like 5'8" makes it all the more sick.

He can return kicks if needed.

He can return punts if needed.

He can also RUN THE BALL (Miami, Washington, this year for example) as a feature back if necessary.

Calling Kevin Faulk an "OK JAG" is like saying John Hannah was an OK Blocker. He is one of the greatest players in the history of the New England Patriots, and should be referred to as such.

/rant.

No, none of this matters. All that matters in judging a player is going to NFL.com, and looking up his statistical ranking. Faulk is #55. He is a jag. You aren't allowed to watch football games and see what he contributes and understand that his ranking in yards is the most assinine way to judge this player.
You just cant do that. He must be #55 and therefore a jag. Please reserve your arguments for people who watch the games rather than people who get their opinions from a spreadsheet.
 
I really wish people would stop making the assumption that we cannot retain Stallworth on the deal he is presently signed to with no additional discounting (because it will have a much lower cap hit ($3.5M) if need be simply by converting his roster bonus to signing bonus) or retain Moss with the built in $5.7M 2008 cap hit already reserved for Kelley Washington :rolleyes:.

We have PLENTY of cap space for Samuel and Gay, the only issue will be whether or not they wish to remain at what Belioli is willing to pay them. They will simply not overpay them. PS - the fact that Hobbs remains the starting RCB and Gay is the nickle tells me BB believes that is who and what they are.

Seau and Bruschi are $1-2M per pieces of the puzzle who may yet return for a run at 5. If not they will either be replaced by 1 more expensive veteran FA or a couple of other aging veteran warriors Bill feels can play in the system and possibly a draft pick or one of our developing LB's.

Wilson won't have much of a market.

Love the OP's wet dream of how we just trade for the other CJ...when we have Stallworth already signed and fitting well in the system yet need to sign Moss. Who needs draft picks...we're not the Redskins...

If the CJ we've already signed can just replace Washington and Gaffney on the roster he will clear the way for Moss' being extended with Washington's pre budgeted money. And Tom will have one badass collection of now veteran in the system WR's who take a backseat to none in the league.

PS - the RB hysterics might want to recall that Morris is signed through 2010.
 
First, let me just agree with the majority on the question of Kevin Faulk. He's a utility guy, and really good at a lot of things. In this season of insane fantasy stats, bear in mind that ranking Faulk against running backs makes no sense. He's not the featured back, he's a change-of-pace back, plus role player in a variety of roles. Notice too Maroney SUCKS in the TD department. Why? Because right now we're passing for way more TDs than running. Measure him in YPC, and he's fine. And don't make the mistake of measuring him against draft classmates used a different way -- Addai being the prime example. To simplify: the Colts tried to become us, and we tried to become them. They're now dependent on a back instead of a QB/receiving corps. We've got the record-pace QB. Plus ca change...

Okay, now let's remove the distortion lens of our present sicko wideout exhilaration, and discuss who we have in context. What do these guys bring?

- Chad Jackson. Potential, for those who still believe. We may get some peaks before this season is over. No big decision to make until 2010. Can he become the #3 (yes, I said #3,) that Stallworth is (in reality)?

- Stallworth. We have a big bill coming due for Stallworth this offseason/next season. We finally started getting him involved around the 3rd or 4th game this season. He's a YAC beast, and would have been a #1 or "1a" receiver on this team last year. But pro-rate the salary and bonus, and you're looking at a $6M/year bill for him, year in and year out, until 2012. Upside: He's young (27), relative to Moss (30). Moss might well still be around in 2012, playing as a great receiver rather than a physics-defying all-time all-world receiver. Stallworth? He's a good receiver who might blossom into a great. If you see Stallworth becoming the focus in the 2nd half of the year, that might be a sign of the team figuring out the Stallworth contract, since it is written to be shelved in a year, if desired.

- Moss -- if he wasn't sand-bagging on money, we sign him. It is possible -- though from on-field attitude, and from his 1st year NE deal, it does not seem likely -- but it is possible Moss will try to break the bank one last time.

That would present quite the connundrum. If he wants to skyrocket back up to that $10M+/annum range, I just don't know. If he wants to play at more like a $7M/annum range, it's a no-brainer.

- Welker's locked in at a decent price.

Are we seeing a great WR pickup offseason shaping the team in 07, or are we seeing a shift in philosophy (i.e., have the rules changes and "emphasis" driven us to ditch the sandbox field for a fast track, loaded up on the aerial attack... or have we just smartly taken what the market bestowed upon us?)

After all, a few years ago Cinci coughed up a phlegmball named Corey Dillon, and we rode him to the Super Bowl. Obviously, the Moss story has the same basic flavor to it.

Did the market drive the philosophy, or was the philosophy driven prior to the market, with the market falling into place?

I'm sure it's a combination, but next offseason the FO gets to decide: having structured all these WR deals with "prove-it" years (except, significantly, the Welker deal,) what are we willing to sacrifice to make it all work?

We need to decide on Stallworth this coming year, or restructure him to buy time. As it stands, there's $6M due to Stallworth Feb. 28, 08. He'd make 11M total in 08 and 16M between 08 and 09.

Kelly Washington thus far just hasn't had a shot at proving his worth. At a cap cost of $5M+ for 2008, I think we restructure or ditch him, unless he shows a lot in the 2nd half of this year.

I don't think Jabar Gaffney becomes a financial challenge. Wes Welker, a great bang-for-the-buck guy, is signed to cap-friendly numbers for a long time.

What we have going on here is a lot of lines dangled at a lot of receivers, because our leading receiver last year was a glandular freak who couldn't keep his eye on the ball, despite the fact that they were about the same size. (PS, I love Reche for playing at the top of his game all last year. Trouble is we need a #1 with a different top.) The Front Office has had the discussion (I guarantee this much,) where they say "what if we throw them at the wall, and they all stick? What if all of this pans out?" And of course, the answer was "Nice problem to have." Well, it looks like we'll have that problem.

Here's where the FO decides on the future complexion of this team: Is a WR corps worth say, $20-25M+ (Randy, 7-10M; Stallworth, 6M; Welker, 4M = the range of 20M/annum just for 3 guys) in cap room, year in and year out? Who do we lose to make that happen?

There's Vince and Seymour to think about in 2010 (and if you think we'll just plug in Jarvis Green, that's when he comes due too.) Wilfork and Green are cheap right now... so right there you are looking at guys who will command AT LEAST $3-5M each/annum ABOVE their 2009 hit the moment they are signed. And those are just examples from one unit, the D Line. Also in 2010, AD goes up in cost $3M/annum to $9.4M at linebacker. And of course, Tommy will be eating up north of $14M in both 08 and 09, downshifting to about $10M in 2010.

I guess what I am getting at is, we're looking at a total pie that will be maybe $130M by 2010. That being the case, the Tommy-to-Your-Name-Here connection is due to be costing us $35M, with the rest of the team getting the scraps.

Maybe that's why God invented restructuring, but I don't think that gets it done (unless none of these guys - or their agents - care about money.) I think what happened is we structured Stallworth and Washington on the "prove-it" theory, and then blundered into Moss, at an absurdly cheap intro rate.

Something tells me Randy has alligator ARMs, as in adjustable rate mortgage. It's about to reflect the market once our one-year low low intro period is up... so we have to figure out if we can really afford that summer place in the Hamptons too.

PFnV
 
I think this is probably Tedy Brouhaha's last year. I'd like to see them go after his heir apparent in the draft. I think they need speed there.
 
First, let me just agree with the majority on the question of Kevin Faulk. He's a utility guy, and really good at a lot of things. In this season of insane fantasy stats, bear in mind that ranking Faulk against running backs makes no sense. He's not the featured back, he's a change-of-pace back, plus role player in a variety of roles. Notice too Maroney SUCKS in the TD department. Why? Because right now we're passing for way more TDs than running. Measure him in YPC, and he's fine. And don't make the mistake of measuring him against draft classmates used a different way -- Addai being the prime example. To simplify: the Colts tried to become us, and we tried to become them. They're now dependent on a back instead of a QB/receiving corps. We've got the record-pace QB. Plus ca change...

Okay, now let's remove the distortion lens of our present sicko wideout exhilaration, and discuss who we have in context. What do these guys bring?

- Chad Jackson. Potential, for those who still believe. We may get some peaks before this season is over. No big decision to make until 2010. Can he become the #3 (yes, I said #3,) that Stallworth is (in reality)?

- Stallworth. We have a big bill coming due for Stallworth this offseason/next season. We finally started getting him involved around the 3rd or 4th game this season. He's a YAC beast, and would have been a #1 or "1a" receiver on this team last year. But pro-rate the salary and bonus, and you're looking at a $6M/year bill for him, year in and year out, until 2012. Upside: He's young (27), relative to Moss (30). Moss might well still be around in 2012, playing as a great receiver rather than a physics-defying all-time all-world receiver. Stallworth? He's a good receiver who might blossom into a great. If you see Stallworth becoming the focus in the 2nd half of the year, that might be a sign of the team figuring out the Stallworth contract, since it is written to be shelved in a year, if desired.

- Moss -- if he wasn't sand-bagging on money, we sign him. It is possible -- though from on-field attitude, and from his 1st year NE deal, it does not seem likely -- but it is possible Moss will try to break the bank one last time.

That would present quite the connundrum. If he wants to skyrocket back up to that $10M+/annum range, I just don't know. If he wants to play at more like a $7M/annum range, it's a no-brainer.

- Welker's locked in at a decent price.

Are we seeing a great WR pickup offseason shaping the team in 07, or are we seeing a shift in philosophy (i.e., have the rules changes and "emphasis" driven us to ditch the sandbox field for a fast track, loaded up on the aerial attack... or have we just smartly taken what the market bestowed upon us?)

After all, a few years ago Cinci coughed up a phlegmball named Corey Dillon, and we rode him to the Super Bowl. Obviously, the Moss story has the same basic flavor to it.

Did the market drive the philosophy, or was the philosophy driven prior to the market, with the market falling into place?

I'm sure it's a combination, but next offseason the FO gets to decide: having structured all these WR deals with "prove-it" years (except, significantly, the Welker deal,) what are we willing to sacrifice to make it all work?

We need to decide on Stallworth this coming year, or restructure him to buy time. As it stands, there's $6M due to Stallworth Feb. 28, 08. He'd make 11M total in 08 and 16M between 08 and 09.

Kelly Washington thus far just hasn't had a shot at proving his worth. At a cap cost of $5M+ for 2008, I think we restructure or ditch him, unless he shows a lot in the 2nd half of this year.

I don't think Jabar Gaffney becomes a financial challenge. Wes Welker, a great bang-for-the-buck guy, is signed to cap-friendly numbers for a long time.

What we have going on here is a lot of lines dangled at a lot of receivers, because our leading receiver last year was a glandular freak who couldn't keep his eye on the ball, despite the fact that they were about the same size. (PS, I love Reche for playing at the top of his game all last year. Trouble is we need a #1 with a different top.) The Front Office has had the discussion (I guarantee this much,) where they say "what if we throw them at the wall, and they all stick? What if all of this pans out?" And of course, the answer was "Nice problem to have." Well, it looks like we'll have that problem.

Here's where the FO decides on the future complexion of this team: Is a WR corps worth say, $20-25M+ (Randy, 7-10M; Stallworth, 6M; Welker, 4M = the range of 20M/annum just for 3 guys) in cap room, year in and year out? Who do we lose to make that happen?

There's Vince and Seymour to think about in 2010 (and if you think we'll just plug in Jarvis Green, that's when he comes due too.) Wilfork and Green are cheap right now... so right there you are looking at guys who will command AT LEAST $3-5M each/annum ABOVE their 2009 hit the moment they are signed. And those are just examples from one unit, the D Line. Also in 2010, AD goes up in cost $3M/annum to $9.4M at linebacker. And of course, Tommy will be eating up north of $14M in both 08 and 09, downshifting to about $10M in 2010.

I guess what I am getting at is, we're looking at a total pie that will be maybe $130M by 2010. That being the case, the Tommy-to-Your-Name-Here connection is due to be costing us $35M, with the rest of the team getting the scraps.

Maybe that's why God invented restructuring, but I don't think that gets it done (unless none of these guys - or their agents - care about money.) I think what happened is we structured Stallworth and Washington on the "prove-it" theory, and then blundered into Moss, at an absurdly cheap intro rate.

Something tells me Randy has alligator ARMs, as in adjustable rate mortgage. It's about to reflect the market once our one-year low low intro period is up... so we have to figure out if we can really afford that summer place in the Hamptons too.

PFnV

Sorry but I finally have to say it - your posts are soooooooo tortured.

Washington is gone unless he wants to play for mininum. His deal was simply structured to allow us to retain control of him if the apparently unthinkable happened and Moss and Stallworth bombed while he blossomed. His $5.7M cap hit is already accounted for in the budget and would represent a fine first year cap accommodation on a team friendly (and not raping the player) deal to extend Moss for 3 years. Stallworth's EXISTING deal is easily adjusted to lower his cap hits to $3.5-4.3M for the next two years and increase into legit #1 range when Randy may be winding down. BTW sometime in the interim Brady will be extended through retirement in 2013-2014, and his 2008-2010 cap numbers ($14M, $14M, $10M) which aren't too tough to manage as is will be lowerable exponentially through that period as a result. Love him thought they may, 93's next deal is dependent on his health. That is why they chose to bite the bullit short term on his current deal. If he remains healthy they can entertain a good to retirement deal for him as well that will allow them to spread his hits and Brady's around alternately in what is known as managing the cap.
 
Faulk at #55 is JAG, H Evans #108
But my POST compared what Dillon could do compared to H Evans.
Maybe you should read before you launch into personal attacks. Last year Dillon was the #34 RB

I didn't bash Maroney, I just made the accurate statement that he has been injured a LOT.

WRs do block. In fact they play an important part in the success of the running game. See the washington game breakdown thread.

Wow. First of all, did I even GET "personal" in my post? I praised the idea behind it TWICE. I could've been way harsher, like I'm about to be:

NOBODY SAID WRS don't block. I said it's silly to say that adding WR CJ and Troy means "maybe there will be MORE BLOCKING!" That's juvenile. And it's not "savvy" juvenile or precocious - it's idiotic.

Speaking of idiotic, that RIDICULOUS thing about Faulk and Evans and Dillon - THAT is how you're judging this? Just basically on that ONE ranking? And how does that apply to how they contribute OVERALL? Heath Evans is a classic example of BB preferring a guy who can do many things at a certain level vs. a guy who does one thing REALLY WELL but not much else.

You need to read more threads and posts here, and create your own LESS. Take a little time, kid. Learn the game.
 
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If the Dallas Cowboys are obsessed with running back Darren McFadden, the New England Patriots can trade down for the two first round draft picks of the Dallas Cowboys (Dallas has Cleveland's first round draft selection in 2008). If the Cleveland Browns start losing more games, the better of the two Dallas draft picks would be a mid rounder. Hopefully, the following junior collegiate linebackers declare early:

James Laurinaitis, ILB, Ohio State
Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC

As for free agent priorities, wide receiver Randy Moss and cornerback Asante Samuel top the list. After watching NFLN replay of the Colts-Patriots game, Ellis Hobbs is not a starting cornerback for the New England Patriots defense and has been playing lousy this season.


I'm not sure what game you watched, but Hobbs played extremely well against the Colts and the two penalties he was flagged for should have been called as OFFENSIVE Pass Interference if it was going to be called at all.
 
I'm not sure what game you watched, but Hobbs played extremely well against the Colts and the two penalties he was flagged for should have been called as OFFENSIVE Pass Interference if it was going to be called at all.
As for the pass interference call on Ellis Hobbs against Reggie Wayne early in the second quarter, Mike Pereira on NFLN last night stated that the official made the right call:

-"Actions that constitute defensive pass interference [after ball is thrown] include"
(e) "Cutting off the path of the receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball."
 
As for the pass interference call on Ellis Hobbs against Reggie Wayne early in the second quarter, Mike Pereira on NFLN last night stated that the official made the right call:

-"Actions that constitute defensive pass interference [after ball is thrown] include"
(e) "Cutting off the path of the receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball."

Coverup. If that is PI then there should be 10-15 PI calls every game, including at least 8-10 on the Colts in the very same game.
 
OK, let's look at the FAs. Have to add Moss, Alexander and Mike Wright to your list.

Guys whose likeliest choices are Patriots and Retirement:
Troy Brown
Junior Seau
Tedy Bruschi

Guys whose departure won't make much of a ripple:
Jabar Gaffney
Kelley Washington

Guys the Patriots will have to really shell out for if they want to keep:
Randy Moss
Asante Samuel
Donte Stallworth

Big question marks:
Randall Gay
Eugene Wilson
Mike Wright
Eric Alexander

In that last group, I'm guessing Gay and Wright will both command surprising attention in the FA market. As for Wilson and Alexander, the Pats could probably re-sign them IF they really want to.

Position by position, that leaves 3 huge glaring priorities: WR, ILB, CB

Let's just assume Moss comes back. This is looking like something special for both sides. Let's also assume that Stallworth's return depends in part on how Chad Jackson looks for the remainder of this season. If Jackson can step up to take the #2 role, I'd bet a bunch of Stallworth's money is used to sign Gay and keep a semblance of continuity in the defensive backfield. Then the Pats also draft a couple of CBs in rounds 2-5, like the Wilson/Samuel year. At ILB, I'll say Seau retires and Bruschi gives it one more season. The Pats sign a mid-level FA to platoon with him while the rookie (Beau Bell, of course) learns the trade.

There ya go, all done! :)

Thank you for your very good analysis. Excellent response!
I do think we may add P and TE to your list patchick...

I unfortunately don't get to watch much football due to a personal situation.
I apologize to those fans who do get to watch more football than me and find the need to be abusive in responding my requests for discussion and information. You as fans need to understand that you are just a fan and don't
truly grasp football at the level of BB and SP. Uber fan that you think you are, still you are frequently wrong in your beliefs and speculations. Frankly I am at a much lower level of understanding than you uber fans, however my grasp of financing and perhaps Strategic analysis may be better.

So far no one has refuted that we may well be happy to pick up 4 CP picks next year...Or that in the right year we would borrow from the future to grab a bargain today...

Regarding the current RB situation our projected performance at RB going forward ought to be far less than what we accomplished with a healthy Morris. That concerns me. Hey if your happy with Eckel getting a couple ST tackles and Evans getting less than 7 yds per game, with Faulk getting roughly 20yds per game and with Maroney carrying the Ball something like 80% of the time he is on the field who am I as a less knowledgeable fan than you to share that concern?
(All I originally did was speculate on how BB spoke about this, but if we do nothing going forward then you are obviously correct that my speculation was wrong)
 
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Coverup. If that is PI then there should be 10-15 PI calls every game, including at least 8-10 on the Colts in the very same game.
In my opinion, that call was not as egregious as the clip by wide receiver Aaron Moorehead on safety Rashad Baker during the long Joseph Addai run at the end of the second quarter. The clip was blatantly obvious since Moorehead's arms were fully extended on the play.
 
Compare the HObbs PI to the non-call PI against Caldwell in last year's game.

It's hilarious that anyone would even want to mount an argument as to why one is PI and the other isn't PI.
 
If the Dallas Cowboys are obsessed with running back Darren McFadden, the New England Patriots can trade down for the two first round draft picks of the Dallas Cowboys (Dallas has Cleveland's first round draft selection in 2008). If the Cleveland Browns start losing more games, the better of the two Dallas draft picks would be a mid rounder. Hopefully, the following junior collegiate linebackers declare early:

If the Cowboys are obsessed with McFadden, I'd take their higher 1st (probably Cleveland's) and Marion Barber III and laugh all the way to the bank. Reuniting the Golden Gopher backfield on the Patriots for a bit of thunder and lightning would be incredible, plus you could take one of those LBs.

If the Pats stay with SF's pick, I'd like to see them take Keith Rivers from USC. Guy's an absolute beast. A little small (240ish), but could be great.
 
Compare the HObbs PI to the non-call PI against Caldwell in last year's game.

It's hilarious that anyone would even want to mount an argument as to why one is PI and the other isn't PI.
This is why pass interference in the NFL should only be 15 yard penalty. The pass interference calls have become WAY to subjective and the players on the field should decide the game NOT the zebras.

As for Sunday's game, that referee crew was on the take and I don't give a damn what anyone else says.
 
Sorry but I finally have to say it - your posts are soooooooo tortured.

They're not tortured, they're just pressured in a way that leaves no lasting physical or psychological damage.

Good counter, though I disagree. Not on Washington, although we do still have 8 games left. I think he's gone too. I agree Welker stays, and Moss stays unless he makes truly stratospheric demands. Gaffney, yes. Stallworth...?

If I'm his agent if/when he is cut for not restructuring, I say -

- My guy caught ___ of Tom Brady's TD passes
- My guy woulda coulda shoulda caught more, except, well, RANDY MOSS.
- My guy has a super bowl XLII ring, and knows about winning and team building (this seems to have worked for Patten, Givens, and Branch.)
- My guy is worth 6M a year, just not to the Patriots.

The above assumes good numbers through the rest of this season for Stallworth, and obviously a super bowl. Neither of these seem unlikely to me.

I think he gets that 6M/y if he wants it elsewhere. I have no idea whether he values playing in NE enough to do so under a restructured deal that cuts him down a peg.

PFnV
 
If the Cowboys are obsessed with McFadden, I'd take their higher 1st (probably Cleveland's) and Marion Barber III and laugh all the way to the bank. Reuniting the Golden Gopher backfield on the Patriots for a bit of thunder and lightning would be incredible, plus you could take one of those LBs.

If the Pats stay with SF's pick, I'd like to see them take Keith Rivers from USC. Guy's an absolute beast. A little small (240ish), but could be great.
I've already mentioned in another thread that the fourth pick in the draft would be worth both first round picks from Dallas and Marion Barber III.
 
They're not tortured, they're just pressured in a way that leaves no lasting physical or psychological damage.

Good counter, though I disagree. Not on Washington, although we do still have 8 games left. I think he's gone too. I agree Welker stays, and Moss stays unless he makes truly stratospheric demands. Gaffney, yes. Stallworth...?

If I'm his agent if/when he is cut for not restructuring, I say -

- My guy caught ___ of Tom Brady's TD passes
- My guy woulda coulda shoulda caught more, except, well, RANDY MOSS.
- My guy has a super bowl XLII ring, and knows about winning and team building (this seems to have worked for Patten, Givens, and Branch.)
- My guy is worth 6M a year, just not to the Patriots.

The above assumes good numbers through the rest of this season for Stallworth, and obviously a super bowl. Neither of these seem unlikely to me.

I think he gets that 6M/y if he wants it elsewhere. I have no idea whether he values playing in NE enough to do so under a restructured deal that cuts him down a peg.

PFnV
I agree with your logic since Donte Stallworth's current pace is on par with David Givens' most productive season. I also remember the Patriots organization playing hardball with former Patriots wide receiver David Givens.
 
If the Cowboys are obsessed with McFadden, I'd take their higher 1st (probably Cleveland's) and Marion Barber III and laugh all the way to the bank. Reuniting the Golden Gopher backfield on the Patriots for a bit of thunder and lightning would be incredible, plus you could take one of those LBs.

If the Pats stay with SF's pick, I'd like to see them take Keith Rivers from USC. Guy's an absolute beast. A little small (240ish), but could be great.

Barber is in his fourth year of his rookie contract, so he's a FA after next year.

I would think they'd want more than that (the pats would).
 
what's with all the draft talk around here in November - did I log onto the Jets message board by mistake?
 
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