Linebackers stronger in 2010

[VJCPatriot]

Thinking that rookies will automatically be as good as the players they replace is a recipe for disaster. For all the griping people have done about AdT, for example, he was still the starter for most of the season. Expecting a rookie conversion project to step right in and be an improvement is, as the line goes, a triumph of hope over experience.

Adalius Thomas sucked and had a terrible attitude problem. So cutting him was just addition by subtraction. As long as Cunningham earns himself playing time in the rotation, the OLBs will be improved.

I look for the most improvement to come from the ILB group though. If Spikes can earn a starting job next to Mayo or at least get significant reps, that will free up Mayo to roam and be the playmaker we know he can be after seeing his rookie campaign.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's amazing how any conversation rots when it's dominated by Hey Bro and the Douche Awry.

It's amazing seeing judgement passed on rookies/2nd and 3rd year players. Ya might want to review Takeo Spikes on NFLN and how he noted that it's toward the end of the third year when a lb starts to "get it".

Who are we playing next year? How about looking at the opponents and then developing defensive packages? Do you seriously think Indy will have the same package as Cincy? Green Bay vs Chicago?

I would hate to see judgement if the defense rated like 8th in points last year.

Perhaps if you actually read the O.P. instead of thinking that word play of a screen name was the height of wit (Well, for you, perhaps it is, since you do it so very often), you'd be a bit more capable of following along. The O.P. wasn't breaking it down into game by game matchups. That's not the issue posed.

The issue is the linebacking corps.

Should you expect TBC to be better/worse/same than a career year?
Should you expect Burgess to be better/worse/same than a lousy year?
etc....
Then, taking all the answers to such questions as a group, should you expect the corps to be better/worse same overall as last year?

Ya might want to review Takeo Spikes on NFLN and how he noted that it's toward the end of the third year when a lb starts to "get it".

Kind of the point being made about the rookies.....

 

[Deus Irae]

Adalius Thomas sucked and had a terrible attitude problem. So cutting him was just addition by subtraction. As long as Cunningham earns himself playing time in the rotation, the OLBs will be improved.

Again, though, you're missing something. As bad as you think Thomas was, he was still the starter. That means that the Patriots still thought he was better than all the other options. So, to improve on Thomas, you've got

Burgess, who was on the team but learning a new role
Ninkovich, who was on the team and couldn't beat out Thomas
Cunningham, who's a true rookie and a DE conversion project
Crable, who's a 'rookie' who's not demonstrated the ability to even play a down in the regular season.

While you may claim "addition by subtraction", that claim alone doesn't get it done on Sundays. You've also ignored the reality that TBC had his best year as a pro last season, as an older player. It's not generally the case that such a season is repeated or improved upon. Here's hoping that TBC can be an exception who falls into the category of late bloomer.

I look for the most improvement to come from the ILB group though. If Spikes can earn a starting job next to Mayo or at least get significant reps, that will free up Mayo to roam and be the playmaker we know he can be after seeing his rookie campaign.

a 'bounce back' Mayo + a run stopper for 1st and 2nd down would make for nice improvement at ILB.

 

[woolster22]

I think the ILB will improve quite a bit over last year, but it doesnt seem that anyone is arguing this. The real question will be how much the DEs can do to free up the OLBs to make plays. Wilfork-demands two blockers, and if we can get one of our DEs to have a similar impact, good things will happen for the albeit less talented OLBs. IF, McKenzie and Spikes begin to prove themselves on the field, I would be very interested to see what kind of "Organized Chaos" type packages BB comes up with, as i expect Spikes/McKenzie to have an impact rushing up the middle and blowing up run plays. Could allow for guyton to swing outside for limited reps with the assumption being he drops back while an ILB or two comes flying up the middle (ILB+Chung a la the Ravens?).

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Perhaps if you actually read the O.P. instead of thinking that word play of a screen name was the height of wit (Well, for you, perhaps it is, since you do it so very often), you'd be a bit more capable of following along. The O.P. wasn't breaking it down into game by game matchups. That's not the issue posed.

The issue is the linebacking corps.

Should you expect TBC to be better/worse/same than a career year?
Should you expect Burgess to be better/worse/same than a lousy year?
etc....
Then, taking all the answers to such questions as a group, should you expect the corps to be better/worse same overall as last year?



Kind of the point being made about the rookies.....

Ahhh Douche, I read the OP,.........then you showed up.

Again, with new faces (McKenzie, Cunningham, Crable, Spikes) who cares if "veterans couldn't see the field" last year?

A rookie (or any player for that matter) can make a meaningful impact with 15 snaps per game. The genius of BB used to be opponent specific game plans and taking advantage of unique talents of players.

Ya might want to review the opponents and the players/talents vs your standard "they suck" input.

Try a different approach and fake being useful.

What personnel would play against:

Jets?

Indy?

Baltimore?

With so many new and young players, the better method is review the 13 opponents and develop the optimal personnel groupings.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ahhh Douche, I read the OP,.........then you showed up.

If you read the O.P., you need a comprehension course. Nowhere does the O.P. break things down on a game-by-game basis.

Again, with new faces (McKenzie, Cunningham, Crable, Spikes) who cares if "veterans couldn't see the field" last year?

First, I'm not sure where "veterans couldn't see the field" is coming from.
Second, anyone with a brain should care that Cunningham, Burgess and Crable are being asked to replace Thomas.

A rookie (or any player for that matter) can make a meaningful impact with 15 snaps per game. The genius of BB used to be opponent specific game plans and taking advantage of unique talents of players.

The genius of BB as an in game manipulator is irrelevant to the original post, my response to that, and the back and forth between myself and Mgteich.

Ya might want to review the opponents and the players/talents vs your standard "they suck" input.

You might want to actually read posts before answering with gibberish. Burgess didn't drop back and play true linebacker last season. This has been discussed on multiple threads. Cunningham wasn't with the team. Crable was on IR. This is all basic stuff to anyone who's followed the team. You choosing to ignore it in order to post stupid gripes about me just reflects poorly on your analytical skills.

Try a different approach and fake being useful.

What personnel would play against:

Jets?

Indy?

Baltimore?

It's irrelevant, but the basic groupings will be the same against most opponents, save for the possible ebb and flow of "best player". The questions will center more around which sub packages will see more use in various games.

With so many new and young players, the better method is review the 13 opponents and develop the optimal personnel groupings.

Take that up with the O.P.. Even better, since it's off topic, you could start your own thread on it.

 

[AzPatsFan]

In the end, Mayo is healthier, the two JAGS brought in last year know the defense better, and there will be three new additions. We might have wanted more, but it seems a reasonable effort to be adding Cunningham, McKenzie and Spikes to replace Seau, Thomas and Alexander.

THE FOUR INSIDE LINEBACKERS should be significantly better
----------------------------------------------------------------
MAYO should be stronger. He was injured for the early part of 2009.
GUYTON should be at least as good as 2009.
We have replaced Seau and Alexander with SPIKES and MCKENZIE

THE FIVE OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS should be about the same or improve a little
-----------------------------------------------------
BANTA-CAIN and WOODS should be about the same.
NINKOVICH and BURGESS know the defense better and should be a bit better.
CUNNINGHAM replaces THOMAS on the roster & should be as good as Thomas was in 2009.

OTHER POSSIBILITIES
------------------------------------------------
CRABLE could surprise, make the team and contribute.
WILLIAMS could surprise, make the team, and contribute.
MURRELL or ALEXANDER could make team as STers, not affecting team effectiveness at LB.

I thoroughly disagree with your assessment.

TBC and Burgess are accomplished veterans with pedigrees. Burgess joined too late to learn much about the Defense in TC last season and had never played in a 3-4. He will be fully acclimated, now. Beneficially, one is a SOLB, and one is a WOLB, so both positions of need are covered.

It is unusual to have two high draft picks backing up the starters but that is exactly the situation. Crable (3) and Cunningham (2) come from big time football programs with triangle numbers and speed. Woods and Ninkovich bring up the rear. Woods can play OLB too but you would prefer he didn't, but he is a superb ST player. Ninkovich could surprise, OTOH Murrel is a scrub. Dane is PS material this year.

Mayo is a superb WILB. The battle is for a starting SILB, and Guyton is the incumbant and not bad, but can be improved, unless he beefs up. Both McKenzie and Spikes are high draft picks. I could see all four sticking and Alexander walking. Take your pick who plays next to Mayo.

In short this is not the best LB crew the Patriots have fielded this decade, but it may well be the most deep, and overal most talented one. The Pats in the glory years had 3 OLBs and 3 ILBs, before you got to the ST players, and sometimes fewer. Now they may have 5 and 4, all capable of playing, before ST considerations.

 

[The_Riddler]

Spikes, Mayo and T-Mac, how good is that? Spikes and T-Mac will allow Mayo to free lance and use his s-to-s speed to make plays. Spikes is not only a thumper, the kid can blitz. All of these interior studs are young, fast and hungry. I can't wait to see them in this defense.

I am also really excited about Cunningham and what he can bring as a two-way, 3-down OLB, both off the edge and dropping back into coverage. He'll take some time to develop, but he will develop.

This young defense, overall with Chung and McCourty added to what was there will getter better and better week by week. It's really exciting, I can't wait to see them come together as a unit.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

It's amazing how any conversation rots when it's dominated by Hey Bro and the Douche Awry.

I didn't know when somebody writes 2 (now 3) posts, their dominating a thread? Thanks for the compliment.

 

[mgteich]

You "throughly disagree with my assessment"
Which do you disagree with
A) My bottom line stated in the thread title that the linebackers will be stronger in 2010?
B) My assessment that the ILB's should be significantly better? or that
C) the OLB's will be about the same or improve a little
==========

Since you "thoroughly disagree", I presume that you think that the linebackers will NOT be stronger in 2010. Please support that position.

I thoroughly disagree with your assessment.

TBC and Burgess are accomplished veterans with pedigrees. Burgess joined too late to learn much about the Defense in TC last season and had never played in a 3-4. He will be fully acclimated, now. Beneficially, one is a SOLB, and one is a WOLB, so both positions of need are covered.

It is unusual to have two high draft picks backing up the starters but that is exactly the situation. Crable (3) and Cunningham (2) come from big time football programs with triangle numbers and speed. Woods and Ninkovich bring up the rear. Woods can play OLB too but you would prefer he didn't, but he is a superb ST player. Ninkovich could surprise, OTOH Murrel is a scrub. Dane is PS material this year.

Mayo is a superb WILB. The battle is for a starting SILB, and Guyton is the incumbant and not bad, but can be improved, unless he beefs up. Both McKenzie and Spikes are high draft picks. I could see all four sticking and Alexander walking. Take your pick who plays next to Mayo.

In short this is not the best LB crew the Patriots have fielded this decade, but it may well be the most deep, and overal most talented one. The Pats in the glory years had 3 OLBs and 3 ILBs, before you got to the ST players, and sometimes fewer. Now they may have 5 and 4, all capable of playing, before ST considerations.

 

[jczxohn1]

Yeah, yeah, no rookie has ever amounted anything. If a guy hasn't played yet, he never will. Blah blah blah.

Fact is, many times rookies make significant contributions. Guessing which one is tricky, but it is just as dumb to say that no rookie will help as to say all rookies will be great.

A middle ground is nice. Some rooks will contribute their first year, others will take 2 or more. Some never will.

But to say we are not improved with the additiions of Mckenzie, Spikes and Cunningham is simply wrong.

They also have one great advantage; BB will be coachin'em up.

 

[lillestroom]

A point about our ILB's. How good at they against the pass ???

Am pretty confident that they stack up against the run, but the pass ???

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

If you read the O.P., you need a comprehension course. Nowhere does the O.P. break things down on a game-by-game basis.



First, I'm not sure where "veterans couldn't see the field" is coming from.
Second, anyone with a brain should care that Cunningham, Burgess and Crable are being asked to replace Thomas.



The genius of BB as an in game manipulator is irrelevant to the original post, my response to that, and the back and forth between myself and Mgteich.



You might want to actually read posts before answering with gibberish. Burgess didn't drop back and play true linebacker last season. This has been discussed on multiple threads. Cunningham wasn't with the team. Crable was on IR. This is all basic stuff to anyone who's followed the team. You choosing to ignore it in order to post stupid gripes about me just reflects poorly on your analytical skills.



It's irrelevant, but the basic groupings will be the same against most opponents, save for the possible ebb and flow of "best player". The questions will center more around which sub packages will see more use in various games.



Take that up with the O.P.. Even better, since it's off topic, you could start your own thread on it.

Thanks, Douche

Opponent strengths and weaknesses are irrelavent in what players see the field?

Thanks for the genius.