Welcome to PatsFans.com

Linebackers stronger in 2010

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Jun 20, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    In the end, Mayo is healthier, the two JAGS brought in last year know the defense better, and there will be three new additions. We might have wanted more, but it seems a reasonable effort to be adding Cunningham, McKenzie and Spikes to replace Seau, Thomas and Alexander.

    THE FOUR INSIDE LINEBACKERS should be significantly better
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    MAYO should be stronger. He was injured for the early part of 2009.
    GUYTON should be at least as good as 2009.
    We have replaced Seau and Alexander with SPIKES and MCKENZIE

    THE FIVE OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS should be about the same or improve a little
    -----------------------------------------------------
    BANTA-CAIN and WOODS should be about the same.
    NINKOVICH and BURGESS know the defense better and should be a bit better.
    CUNNINGHAM replaces THOMAS on the roster & should be as good as Thomas was in 2009.

    OTHER POSSIBILITIES
    ------------------------------------------------
    CRABLE could surprise, make the team and contribute.
    WILLIAMS could surprise, make the team, and contribute.
    MURRELL or ALEXANDER could make team as STers, not affecting team effectiveness at LB.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  2. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,774
    Likes Received:
    64
    Ratings:
    +89 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    Thinking that rookies will automatically be as good as the players they replace is a recipe for disaster. For all the griping people have done about AdT, for example, he was still the starter for most of the season. Expecting a rookie conversion project to step right in and be an improvement is, as the line goes, a triumph of hope over experience.
  3. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,400
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    anybody excited to see what McKenzie will be bringing?
  4. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Yup! I just plain like that kid's attitude.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  5. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    I think he'll make a big impact for us.

    I'm also going to drive the Burgess bandwagon. I really hated the trade last season, felt we gave up way too much for him, looked awful for the first 2/3 of the season, but he really seemed to "get it" at the end of last season.

    Last season, he spent most of his time with a hand on the ground in 4-man fronts, but I read BB has him doing a lot of the LB drills so far. I was hoping they'd re-sign him, and I think he'll be this season's under-rated move by the front office that looks brilliant later on.

    Of course, I'll probably regret posting this 6 months from now...
  6. WelshPat

    WelshPat Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I agree, i think you will regret posting this!:p

    When the entire league passes you up for the vet min... that says a lot to me.
  7. Gunnails

    Gunnails Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,622
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    ===========================================

    Not saying I don't like your sig. Because i do, great pic.

    But Grahm, Coles, Pennington, Mangini, and Elmo are no longer with the Jets and therefor can no longer be considered the Jets brain trust.

    If you want I could hunt around for a new brain trust pic for you.
  8. TheComeback

    TheComeback Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    You should go back and watch AD play, especially towards the end of the 2009 season. It's not asking much for a rookie to match that lack of production.
  9. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,774
    Likes Received:
    64
    Ratings:
    +89 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    That must be why the team veterans, who already knew the system, couldn't take the job from him. :bricks:
  10. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    That's true. But I love these types of signings even more than the massive contracts given out to FAs like Haynesworth or Peppers because they're low-risk, high-reward. If he sucks, no big loss.

    The entire league passing on a guy doesn't sound good, but the league is filled with guys who everyone passed on, sometimes multiple times. The draft is one thing, but even in free agency, when guys should be pretty established commodities, mistakes happen. Darren Sharper didn't get much attention last season, but he turned out to be a pretty significant signing. Another veteran who got ignored last off-season was Keith Brookings, who became the glue in Dallas' D.

    Even on our roster, Bodden, McGowan and TBC were 3 guys who were significant contributors that got very little interest from anyone last off-season.

    But yeah, I probably will regret that post :p
  11. ALP

    ALP Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,401
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    or it says something about the minimal production of those vets which they replaced...
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,774
    Likes Received:
    64
    Ratings:
    +89 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    Again, though, even that "minimal production" was enough to keep other seasoned veterans on the bench.
  13. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Unless Cunningham has a breakout season as a rookie, the Pats will have the weakest 3-4 OLB's in the NFL. However, their ISLB's could be pretty good if Mayo becomes the roamer like Bruschi and Spikes or Mckenzie do the dirty work like Ted Johnson.
  14. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I never knew McKenzie was such a great player that we're so improved. For goodness sake this man hasn't proven he can play a full 16 game season. Sadly, the Pats defense is all potential, a lot of "what ifs" this year. Yes the pieces are in place for success. But who gets hurt? Who proves to be a bust? We have no idea were Spikes, crable, Cunningham, and McKenzie even stand right now.
  15. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,449
    Likes Received:
    69
    Ratings:
    +94 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    Don't discount the Pats making moves after teams start making cuts. There could be a couple valuable vaterans out there to help in the pass rush.
  16. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,449
    Likes Received:
    69
    Ratings:
    +94 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    Exactly. We can't say with any level of certainty that the LB's are better this year until we see these guys on the field. I have high hopes, but it's a different animal from the college level to the pro level. Let's see how they translate.
  17. Criptonite

    Criptonite Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I really feel there was more to this that we don't know about. Many teams, especially 4-3 teams, should have been interested in Burgess. He's clearly a talented player (whether he works in our system is a different argument). While he was a free agent for all that time, there wasn't word of even a single visit. Then despite his late season improvements and our clear need to resign him after the draft, we still waited and waited before getting him back. I know a lot of people don't think he's that good because he didn't live up to the trade value, but it's hard to imagine nobody had any interest in a DE/OLB of his quality. Although I have no tangible evidence to back this up, in my opinion he and the team had an agreement before free agency even started. He was possibly healing from an injury or some routine minor surgery in the offseason. Once he was ready to go, we signed him. That's just my opinion, but I think it makes the most sense considering how that all developed.
  18. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Don't forget Mayo, he has a lot to prove. In fact, many people have mentioned the jury is out on him. He needs to make more of an impact.
    I highly doubt there will be anybody significant available.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  19. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    You mean like Ryan and Sanchise eating a massive meatball sandwich from opposite ends or something? No thanks...I think my sig captures a certain child-like innocence that it takes to be an aspiring Jets fan year after year. :D
  20. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    8,341
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    1) I totally agree.
    When TBC is your best 3-4 OLB, you are in season-killing trouble.
    Saying that the declining Burgess greatly improved towards the end of the season is like saying that 1/2 is a great improvement over 0.
    Cunningham is a complete unknown.
    Is it possible to make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Legs? Maybe, but don't hold your breath.
    Pierre Woods simply does not belong on our 53; what a useless waste of space.

    2) I agree here too.
    If Spikes & Mayo can come close to becoming our next TJ & Bruschi, then we should be in good shape there.
    McK if healthy could be a good multi-situational sub.
    Guyton could then become what his talent suggests: a STer.
  21. Gunnails

    Gunnails Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,622
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    =====================================================

    Ha Ha, I see your point.;)
  22. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    I didn't mean to suggest that we are counting on rookies. Belichick tries not to do that at more than one position if he can (TE this year).

    I suggest that we will probably be better even without any contributions from the three first year players. Mayo, Burgess and Ninkovich should all produce more than last year. I don't see Thomas as a great loss. Do you? Do you think that one of the three rookies will not give us what Seau did last year? Alexander didn't even play a half-dozen plays at lienbacker.
    ==========================================
    SIX RETURNEES
    Mayo, Guyton, Banta-Cain, Woods, Ninkovich, Burgess
    ===========================================

    FIRST YEAR PLAYER CONTRIBUTIONS
    We may or may not get serious contributions from Spikes, McKenzie and Cunningham (or Crable or Willimiams). If ANY of them have a solid year, the linebackers should be significantly better than in 2009, as they may be even without contributions from these three players.


  23. Reckedtrek

    Reckedtrek Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,739
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    I basically agree with your summary, and yeah- it's still 6 weeks until training camp starts so none of us know anything for sure. It's the dead season, so what does a little speculation hurt? Mayo was the DROY, got hurt last year- so I expect him back to be at least what he was his rookie year, maybe better if he has Spikes and/or McKenzie working well next to him. Guyton should be at least as good, if not better with a full year's experience, and that goes for all of last year's rookies who had any significant degree of playing time last year.

    It's not a good idea to bank on one rookie having a break through year, but having three or four, is it that unlikely to expect at least one to make some noticable contributions by November?

    It took Burgess much of the year to learn a new system. He was getting it by the last 4 games or so. This year, he actually will get a full training camp to his benefit as well as knowing much more than he did when we got him. Yes, he should be better. I don't give a rat's ass if no one else pursued him.

    It's very possible that none of the player's are better than AD if he bothered to even try. But are we expecting one (or more) of them to be better than AD when he busts his ass or just better than AD last year? I'm pretty sure it was stated better than last year in the OP.

    With a combination of Ninkovich, Cunningham, Crable, Wlliams or Murrell, there will at least be competition to push the players (who actually WANT to be better) harder and there won't be a negative ***** crying over flying cars in the snow. If the team's successful at rebuilding the locker room culture and morale, the team (I think) will be better at ILB and OLB. We'll find out soon enough.
  24. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    i would not be shocked if they were a lot better then last year or even if they are worst.


    ILB

    Jerod Mayo, should be better cause he will at 100%
    ======================================

    Gary Guyton, should be at lest the same but i think he will have a bigger role as a pass rusher.
    ======================================

    Brandon Spikes, even as a rookie is a upgrade over junior seau, who i think should not have even been on the team last year.
    ======================================

    Tyrone McKenzie, is the wild card of the ILB's can he make the team and be a good ST player and #4 or even #3 ILB
    ======================================

    OLB

    Tully Banta-Cain, im a big fan of TBC but last year. was a Career year for him and he was only the 2th player to have 10 sacks in the BB era. i think he will have a good season but im not sure he can be a 10 sack guy again.
    ======================================

    Derrick Burgess, i think will start the season as the #2 OLB on the other side of TBC and if he plays good he will keep he's job.
    ======================================


    Rob Ninkovich, and Pierre Woods are both good dept Ninkovich, is a better pass rusher and woods is a better run stoper but both are just backups
    ======================================

    Jermaine Cunningham, and Shawn Crable, are the wild cards of the OLB's can Cunningham, pickup the system fast a nuff to get on the field and can Crable, ever play in a real game.
    ======================================


    over all they should be fun to watch but they are far from being the Strength of the defense and that is not a good thing when you have a team that runs a base 3-4
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  25. lillestroom

    lillestroom Rookie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Pierre Woods and Robbie Ninkovitch.

    Two reasons why the Pats are so weak at OLB. If the OLB is weak, so are ENTIRE your linebacking core.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  26. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    Banta-Cain and Burgess both say hi. They will both will get lots more reps than Woods and Ninkovich (as they did last year). The fifth OLB is the rookie Cunningham.

  27. lillestroom

    lillestroom Rookie

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Glad to hear that both Tully and Derrick go the whole season without getting banged up. And that Cunningham can develop at the rate of knots Mayo did.

    You had me worried for a minute.
  28. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    ????? Banta_Cain played of 85% of the defensive reps last year. Burgess played more than Wilfork or Warren.

    Woods and Ninkovich figure to have spot duty as they did last year, and start if there are injuries.

    I am not counting on Cuningingham to start and be the DROY as Mayo was; no one is. Cunningham begins as the #5 OLB, hardly a pressure roster spot.

    The improvement comes primarily because Mayo is coming back healthy and he has better backups than last year. ONE out of Guyton, McKenzie and Spikes should have a good year.

  29. wcpatsfan

    wcpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I think the Pats will be playing out of the 4-3 a LOT this year.
  30. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,927
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    The biggest upgrade is going to come from the team finally having a Mike. Last season, while Mayo was dinged up, he was more importantly playing out of position. With Mayo, a natural Will, playing the Mike, Guyton was getting the reps at Will. That is not a legitimate 34 inside backer tandem for any team, and certainly is a massive liability against the run. In effect, the team had a decent Will playing Mike and a situational Will playing the Will.

    In Spikes or McKenzie (or more likely a combo of both) the team will have a legit Mike for the first time since Johnson retired. This will enable Mayo to move to the playmaking inside backer spot he is meant for. With this one simple addition the backers will go from quite poor to amongst the best.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page