Light 'received a fair offer which he refused'

[supafly]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

Not when you bias the decision with 'totally green and raw' left alone on an island, no.

But what if you said, BB will put the best offensive line combo on the field? The season isn't starting in July, it is starting in September, and there is plenty of time to find the the best combo. If the best combo of tackles could be Solder and Vollmer, then that is what is best for the team.

Solder isn't nearly as raw as Vollmer was when Vollmer played LT. BB gave him steady help with a TE next to him.

We will see.

That is fair, and I agree that I may be using bias in my assessment. You are very right that the season doesn't start for almost 7-8 more weeks, and that TC will be the time to assess these decisions.

I also think that Vollmer played LT under different circumstances though, and I still think that if there's no real tremendous upside to using a rookie from day one, then I am not sure BB will make that choice.

I think my 'bias' is coming from the supposedly lousy O-line program/teachings/techniques at Colorado, some basic scouting that assesses him as such, and the simple fact that we likely do not 'need' him to start as of day one.

Whether I am playing devil's advocate, or whether I am on to something, the fact remains that many posters/media members have felt that keeping Light for another yr makes the most sense. I am certainly not the first or last person to question whether or not starting a rookie at LT (in this specific scenario---Brady getting older, coming back from a major surgery a couple yrs ago etc) is what is 'best' for the team. Yes, I do realize that there have been successful rookies that start from day one, particularly on this team. I do however, feel as though there are some different circumstances right now, and I still may feel as though it would be better to blend him in over the course of the first 4-6 games, where he could experience more practices, film study, coaching up by Dante, and live reps under different circumstances.

As I said, I am not down on the kid by any means, quite the contrary. I am simply a bit overly-protective of our franchise QB's blindside--that is it in a nutshell.

If Belichick feels as though that's what is best for the team, then I am all for it. I still will have questions and opinions on whether or not there is an extreme need right now to have him learn on the job, at the possible expense of having our one and only irreplaceable player potentially injured.

I may be too cautious, or I may be too conservative, and that may be where my apprehension or questioning lies.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

That is fair, and I agree that I may be using bias in my assessment. You are very right that the season doesn't start for almost 7-8 more weeks, and that TC will be the time to assess these decisions.

I also think that Vollmer played LT under different circumstances though, and I still think that if there's no real tremendous upside to using a rookie from day one, then I am not sure BB will make that choice.

I think my 'bias' is coming from the supposedly lousy O-line program/teachings/techniques at Colorado, some basic scouting that assesses him as such, and the simple fact that we likely do not 'need' him to start as of day one.

Whether I am playing devil's advocate, or whether I am on to something, the fact remains that many posters/media members have felt that keeping Light for another yr makes the most sense. I am certainly not the first or last person to question whether or not starting a rookie at LT (in this specific scenario---Brady getting older, coming back from a major surgery a couple yrs ago etc) is what is 'best' for the team. Yes, I do realize that there have been successful rookies that start from day one, particularly on this team. I do however, feel as though there are some different circumstances right now, and I still may feel as though it would be better to blend him in over the course of the first 4-6 games, where he could experience more practices, film study, coaching up by Dante, and live reps under different circumstances.

As I said, I am not down on the kid by any means, quite the contrary. I am simply a bit overly-protective of our franchise QB's blindside--that is it in a nutshell.

If Belichick feels as though that's what is best for the team, then I am all for it. I still will have questions and opinions on whether or not there is an extreme need right now to have him learn on the job, at the possible expense of having our one and only irreplaceable player potentially injured.

I may be too cautious, or I may be too conservative, and that may be where my apprehension or questioning lies.

I wouldn't get too worried about it. Vollmer, whom people are pointing to as an example, had the entire offseason to prepare. He still didn't get his first start until week 6, and that was due to the injury to Light.

Also, given that Vollmer has become a top level RT already, it's asking a hell of a lot to expect Solder to match him.

 

[Run DMC]

I am starting to get a semi thinking about this line with Solder, Vollmer, Cannon,Koppen and Mankins. Holy Shhhhnikeees!

 

[patsfan-1982]

once BB used the 17th over all pick on Nate Solder it was pretty much a done deal that Light was not comeing back he is 33 he is not going to take 4 million to play one more year with the pats this is he's last contract and i think he's the only pro blow LT that will hit the FA market he just may get offerd 7+ million

 

[DaBruinz]

once BB used the 17th over all pick on Nate Solder it was pretty much a done deal that Light was not comeing back he is 33 he is not going to take 4 million to play one more year with the pats this is he's last contract and i think he's the only pro blow LT that will hit the FA market he just may get offerd 7+ million

Solder was chosen as insurance in case Light did walk. Knowing that Light is 33 and that he wanted to see what Free Agency would bring, it behooved the Patriots to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

With some of the money that is going to be floating around, Light is likely to receive a pretty ridiculous offer. But there is a chance he could come back to the Pats and say, I just got offered 7, can you do 6 or 5.5?

The Pats signed Light to his extension before they needed to and were very fair with the money they paid him. Heck, I can remember many people screaming that the Pats overpaid Light.

With all that being said, only time will tell what happens to Light.

 

[Triumph]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

Fans do tend to pick and choose. Light reportedly received what the team deemed a fair offer which he refused. Doesn't mean he or they won't reconsider post lockout for a number of reasons. I agree the team won't extend itself if he has suitors willing to overpay in dollars or years. And the scouts seem to think Solder can start but fans who read early draft pundit assessments now can't fathom that...

What if the scouts are wrong?

You know, sort of like Chad Jackson or Darius Butler?

 

[Triumph]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

lol

Of course they are unbiased.

Considering Belichick throws around nickels like they were manhole covers, saying the team made a fair offer is the same as saying, we wrote exactly what the team wanted us to instead of investigating.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of paying Light big money at this point in his career, but the team has likely never made an offer big enough to be denominated in US currency, including pennies, that they did not deem fair.

It would be nice to see the first headline whereby the team announces they have made an unfair offer and can't understand why the player didn't accept it.

Its pretty hard to fault the Pats the way they run their business. Theyve remained competitive for 10 years and for the most part, remained free from salary cap hell.

Brady took less. Rodney Harrison wanted more money. Bruschi never broke the bank. Youre going to make less money in NE for the opportunity to at least play in the post season and possibly win a Championship.

Lights good, but we all know his limitations.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

What if the scouts are wrong?

You know, sort of like Chad Jackson or Darius Butler?

Darius Butler? You mean the guy who came on pretty strong in the 2nd half of last year? The guy who has only played 2 years and 99% of the people who think that they are smarter than the scouts have already proclaimed to be a bust??

Hmm.. I'll put my money on the scouts and Bill Belichick over the fans.. I'm pretty sure that the Scouts and BB still have a better track record despite Maroney, Jackson and Butler.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

Its pretty hard to fault the Pats the way they run their business. Theyve remained competitive for 10 years and for the most part, remained free from salary cap hell.

Brady took less. Rodney Harrison wanted more money. Bruschi never broke the bank. Youre going to make less money in NE for the opportunity to at least play in the post season and possibly win a Championship.

Lights good, but we all know his limitations.

Umm... Why to people continue to perpetuate that "Brady took less" when Brdy has been amongst the top wage earners for QBs for several years??

Bruschi never "broke the bank" because he never wanted to.

Vrabel earned plenty of money. So has Light. So did Law and Seymour and McGinest.

 

[BlueThunder]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

What if the scouts are wrong?

You know, sort of like Chad Jackson or Darius Butler?

When have the Pats whiffed on a mid first round pick?

 

[Triumph]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

When have the Pats whiffed on a mid first round pick?

1. Koolaid

2. Merriweather - He starts, yes, but needs to benched now and then.

3. Graham - He was OK. Questionable hands and often injured.

 

[Triumph]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

Darius Butler? You mean the guy who came on pretty strong in the 2nd half of last year? The guy who has only played 2 years and 99% of the people who think that they are smarter than the scouts have already proclaimed to be a bust??

Pretty strong. Funny

The guy lost his starting job to an UDFA after 2 games. McCourty has surpassed him by leaps and bounds.

Hmm.. I'll put my money on the scouts and Bill Belichick over the fans.. I'm pretty sure that the Scouts and BB still have a better track record despite Maroney, Jackson and Butler.

But he came on strong. Right??

 

[mgteich]

So, let's say Light does come back to the patriots, having been offered $15M ($3M, $5M, $7M) over 3 years plus a $10M bonus. That's $13M in 2011 plus any bonuses.

First, is that really unreasonable if a team wants him to start at LT for 2-3 years, given the amount of money sime teams MUST spend?

Second, how much less than $13M guaranteed and $18M over 2 years should Light accept as a hometown discount?
==================
And yeah, I suppose his deal might only be for $7M year, say $21M over 3 years ($2M, $4M, $6M plus a $9M bonus). Obviously, a team who needs to spend cap money in 2011 might put much or all of the $9M bonus into salary. But that doesn't affect Light, as long as the first year is guaranteed.

Will the patriots really come close to the $11M guaranteed money that Light is likely to get?

With some of the money that is going to be floating around, Light is likely to receive a pretty ridiculous offer. But there is a chance he could come back to the Pats and say, I just got offered 7, can you do 6 or 5.5?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

With Solder and Vollmer the Pats aren't going to give Light anywhere close to the money he could be getting elsewhere. "Fair value" offer is totally subjective and Pats' perception of a fair value offer is sometimes way off what others are willing to pay.

It will come down to Light taking a MAJOR discount just because he likes it here, or doing what most would do and finish his career somewhere else making significantly more money.

 

[mgteich]

1) A fair deal to a player is equal to his market value adjusted for any pluses or minuses for signing with a particular team.

2) An individual team does not set the market for a layer unless they are the only bidder. In a sense, the highest bidderm sets the market, but the real "market" for a particular player is judged by him, after adjustments for home town, ownership, SB possibilities (and whatever is important to the player.

BOTTOM LINE
It is fine to say that patriots offered a player a "fair" deal of $5M a year. This means little until the player knows his options. For this to be fair before free agency, a player has to estimate free agent offers and add or subtract adjustments.

BTW, a player's value to a particular team is almost irrelevant if other teams are willing to pay a lot more, unless the player is willing to give a very large hometown discount or not bother to even look. Players like Bruschi are extremely rare.

Obviously, there are players whose adjustments are so highl;y plus for their current team that they will almost assuredly stay. However, almost every players looks around from time to time, or at they are looking for the last contract, or the last major contract.

 

[RayClay]

Solder was chosen as insurance in case Light did walk.

No, he was chosen to start. Whether that's now or later, you don't spend the 17th pick on insurance.

 

[patfanken]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

1. Koolaid

2. Merriweather - He starts, yes, but needs to benched now and then.

3. Graham - He was OK. Questionable hands and often injured.

This is ludicrous - First I have no idea who koolaid is so I'll assume its Maroney-

Maroney averaged 4.4 ypc in his first 2 years with the Pats. He had 9 TDs and a 4.0 ypc average in his last fully year as a Patriot. Those of us still lucid enough to remember his rookie year can tell of some of the fantastic promise and flashes of real talent that justified where the Pats took him. NO ONE could forsee the injuries and how it took a toll on him. I have contended for a long time, Maroney was a disappointment, but in no way a bust. Up until last year's melt down, Maroney was a decent but injury prone RB in the NFL. If it makes you feel happy to call him a bust, feel free

Merriweather - forget about the multiple all pro honors - Merriweather has been, at worst an above average S in the league. I think too much was made of his benching last season. Even good players are benched when they do things that the coaching staff deems inappropriate. Hopefully he has learned from it. He averages close to 80 tackles a year from the FS position and 4 picks. Yes occasionally he is "geographically challenged" and freelances a bit too often, but to call him a "bust" just doesn't match the facts

Graham - Daniel Graham was also a VERY good TE who did a tough job in the NE offense. He was always the last target in the progression. And for as many drops as he had he had more spectacular catches. "Busts" don't get the kind of contract that he got from the broncos.\

Not all first round picks need to me "all pros" to justify their selections. Chad Jackson was a bust. So have other 2nd and 3rd round selections have failed, but in the BB era, NONE of the first round picks have met the real criteria of what a bust truly is.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Light recieved a fair offer which he refused

Its pretty hard to fault the Pats the way they run their business. Theyve remained competitive for 10 years and for the most part, remained free from salary cap hell.

Brady took less. Rodney Harrison wanted more money. Bruschi never broke the bank. Youre going to make less money in NE for the opportunity to at least play in the post season and possibly win a Championship.

Lights good, but we all know his limitations.

I don't fault them at all.

No one takes any discounts, there is a negotiation. If Brady or Harrison decides there's a monetary value to playing for the Patriots instead of the Bengals, they make a deal with that factored in. No one is holding a gun to players heads. Seymour signed one of the biggest contracts in the game, because of his worth and position. Had he been less valuable, they would have packed his suitcase, and having aged and injures, extension 2 was not in the offing.

Bruschi would have certainly faced renegotiation or cuts his last couple of years, instead he structured his deal to be attractive long term and collected all his money until he really couldn't cut it any longer.

Quality of life is an important consideration. When you're already making millions, making a couple more and playing for a loser franchise isn't necessarily a great trade off.

The patriots have the same salary cap and pay the same as everyone else. They do not pay premium for players or positions they don't have to, and they do pay more than other teams for marginal useful players to build their loyalty and confidence.

 

[RayClay]

My take on an imaginary Patriots negotiation.

"Detroit is offering me 2 million more."

"Good luck, I hear Detroit is lovely in September."

The point being, the Patriots don't bargain against other teams. Of course it increases a players leverage, but they bargain with players that want to be here, that have good value for the franchise, then see if they can afford to sign them.

It's an important distinction.

 

[BlueThunder]

If Triumph doesn't understand what a "bust" is...look up Gholston.