La Canfora: Pats trying hard to keep Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

[emoney_33]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

Guyton and LeVoir contributed in 2008 as well, thus they can't be seen as additions to 2009. Hell, LeVoir started a few games in 2008. He was on the PUP in 2009 and barely played. Guyton only played as much as he did because of Bruschi's retirement, and even then, many people were on him as a liability against the run.

Guyton is contributing and improving.

Pryor and Chung had marginal contributions.

Colts receivers made contributions because they were needed to play. Neither Pryor nor Chung were needed or expected to make major contributions.

That leaves Edelman, Butler, and Vollmer. Of that group, Butler had about two or three good games but before that was fourth on the depth chart and after the Miami debacle was surpassed by Springs because to stem the bleeding for the end of the season. Edelman's injuries were unfortunate. Vollmer was solid.

Butler worked his way into more of a role and looked pretty good all year. We didn't go into the season with a lack of CBs like the Colts went in without receivers. They needed their recevers from day one. It seems that you are pimping up the Colts draft because they NEEDED to play their receivers and brushing aside the pats draft because they had less immediate need?

 

[pats1]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

Guyton is contributing and improving.

And most people agreed in their post-season evaluations that he should only be a rotational ILB because he is a major liability against the run. Did you watch the Ravens game?

Colts receivers made contributions because they were needed to play. Neither Pryor nor Chung were needed or expected to make major contributions.

Chung wasn't needed? I didn't realize the Pats had such a solid secondary.

Pryor wasn't needed? How about when Wilfork went down and Brace was getting manhandled by the Bills?

Butler worked his way into more of a role and looked pretty good all year.

Butler was benched after the Dolphins game. All indications were that Belichick had to recruit Springs to come back from his mid-season sabbatical ("inactive, probable with a knee injury...sorry AD!") and start down the stretch.

We didn't go into the season with a lack of CBs like the Colts went in without receivers. They needed their recevers from day one. It seems that you are pimping up the Colts draft because they NEEDED to play their receivers and brushing aside the pats draft because they had less immediate need?

My intent wasn't to compare drafts, it was to show what players teams broguht in to help them go above and beyond the prior season's result.

I wonder if we were watching different teams last year. The team I was watching had talent problems, leadership problems, locker room problems, and experience problems. Some have wondered what would have happened if another shoe had dropped in that locker room and more players joined the Springs/AD corner.

Weren't we just talking about how the Pats needed to "clean house" and how they had serious personnel and chemistry issues after that shelacking against the Ravens two months ago? How quickly we forget and put back on the rosey status-quo glasses...

 

[wilfork is beastin']

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

Guyton is contributing and improving.


Neither Pryor nor Chung were needed or expected to make major contributions.



Butler worked his way into more of a role and looked pretty good all year. We didn't go into the season with a lack of CBs like the Colts went in without receivers. They needed their recevers from day one. It seems that you are pimping up the Colts draft because they NEEDED to play their receivers and brushing aside the pats draft because they had less immediate need?

I would say Chung was expected to contribute or make a case for the starting job by the end of the season. He made a key play in the first Phins game, but he didn't get on the field as much I would have expected him too. Then again, no one expected McGowan to come in and play so well at the beginning of the year, which may be why he didn't get so many snaps.

 

[drakesta101]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

That's really the opposite of what is going on. Those who are backing the idea of 2009 + experience + leadership = better 2010 would theoretically not care about what is done from here on out because the 2010 roster is already golden.

Although I totally agree with everything you've said and theoretically everything you say SOUNDS true, but in the end it is just NOT...The NFL is a ridiculously unpredictable league...By that logic (which I agree is a completely logical way of projecting) the 2009 seasons of the Saints and Steelers shouldn't have happened....

The Saints in 2008 (essentially the same core roster as the 2009 Super Bowl Saints) were in an 8-8 team. Sure they added Darren Sharper and a defensive coordinator, but is that really the sole reason they went from mediocrity to an 18-1 Super Bowl season? NO...it was a perfect blend of I don't know what the hell...that's the beauty of the NFL...

The 2008 Steelers were a 12-4 team with the best defense in the NFL...The team had two sack machines coming off both edges in laMaar Woodley and Jerome Harrison...A year later? Sure they were down Troy Polamalu for the majority of the seaosn...but was he REALLY the sole reason that they couldn't make the playoffs? They REQUIRED Troy Polamalu in order to beat the Chiefs, Browns, and Raiders?! Really? No.....the NFL is so darn unpredictable that even the team that returns the core of their super bowl talent can have an OFF year...

None of this is meant to dispell your logic...as that's how I like to project how the Pats are going to do in 2010...I really only see an 8-8, 9-7 team next year with the talent on the roster even AFTER the possible re-signing of Bodden....but that doesn't mean they can't/won't go 2-14 or 14-2.....It's just too damn impossible to predict.

 

[emoney_33]

Certainly looked to me like they were trying out there. Same guys were on the field. Even from the opening play of the drive, they got burned (marched down field, wide open touchdown by TE on blown coverage by Guyton).

In all honesty, if the Patriots needed to win to make the playoffs do you think they beat the Texans or not?

You think Faulk, Maroney, Wilfork and other hurting players get the day off if it means anything? I mean seriously, the players on the field are always going to try as any competitive human being would, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

It was a meaningless game, and using it as part of the 10-6 record to justify something is disingenous at best.

 

[Gunnails]

Except I never said the Paths 'finished' 11-5 nor the Jets 'finished' 8-8. But yeah let's pretend the end of the season didn't happen the way it did.

Do you HONESTLY believe the Pats would have lost to the Texans if they were fighting for a playoff spot?

==================================================

I quoted you saying The pats were really a 11 and 5 team, you can see how I might of been confused.

As far as the Pats losing to the Texans,,,I like to think the Pats were the better team, playing at home, maybe in a do over they win 7 out of 10, even if the playoffs were on the line I think the Pats at best would of won ugly.
However I am far from unbiased.

 

[jmt57]

To the question of why Bodden was not extended earlier, in my opinion it was his decision to see what he could get as a free agent no matter what he was offered by the Pats. Look back to when he originally signed with the team: a one-year deal with a clause that he could not be franchised. To me that makes it apparent that a year ago he had every intention of seeing what he could get as a free agent this spring. He still feels the same way because this is his best and last chance for a big payday before his career is over. That was his right and his decision - and not a bad one on his part - and not some failure by the front office in neglecting to make him an offer.

 

[pats1]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

Although I totally agree with everything you've said and theoretically everything you say SOUNDS true, but in the end it is just NOT...The NFL is a ridiculously unpredictable league...By that logic (which I agree is a completely logical way of projecting) the 2009 seasons of the Saints and Steelers shouldn't have happened....

The Saints in 2008 (essentially the same core roster as the 2009 Super Bowl Saints) were in an 8-8 team. Sure they added Darren Sharper and a defensive coordinator, but is that really the sole reason they went from mediocrity to an 18-1 Super Bowl season? NO...it was a perfect blend of I don't know what the hell...that's the beauty of the NFL...

The 2008 Steelers were a 12-4 team with the best defense in the NFL...The team had two sack machines coming off both edges in laMaar Woodley and Jerome Harrison...A year later? Sure they were down Troy Polamalu for the majority of the seaosn...but was he REALLY the sole reason that they couldn't make the playoffs? They REQUIRED Troy Polamalu in order to beat the Chiefs, Browns, and Raiders?! Really? No.....the NFL is so darn unpredictable that even the team that returns the core of their super bowl talent can have an OFF year...

None of this is meant to dispell your logic...as that's how I like to project how the Pats are going to do in 2010...I really only see an 8-8, 9-7 team next year with the talent on the roster even AFTER the possible re-signing of Bodden....but that doesn't mean they can't/won't go 2-14 or 14-2.....It's just too damn impossible to predict.

I don't disagree with you at all, I just think if people expect the Pats to go into 2010 with basically the same roster that they had in 2009 they will be sorely disappointed. We've gone through this act for five seasons now. It's been ending badly each year, and especially worse the past two seasons.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

That leaves Edelman, Butler, and Vollmer. Of that group, Butler had about two or three good games but before that was fourth on the depth chart and after the Miami debacle was surpassed by Springs because to stem the bleeding for the end of the season. Edelman's injuries were unfortunate. Vollmer was solid.

So let me get this straight. After 2 days of free agency you're ready to back over the Pats front office with a bus? I just don't get it. There are plenty of moves left to be made. I didn't expect a Patsfans moderator of all people to hit the PANIC button this early into the offseason.

 

[pats1]

In all honesty, if the Patriots needed to win to make the playoffs do you think they beat the Texans or not?

If the Pats needed to win to advance in the playoffs do they think they beat the Ravens or not? Oh, wait...

You think Faulk, Maroney, Wilfork and other hurting players get the day off if it means anything? I mean seriously, the players on the field are always going to try as any competitive human being would, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

It was a meaningless game, and using it as part of the 10-6 record to justify something is disingenous at best.

As is chalking it up as a win as part of an 11-5 record when the team **** the bed seven days later in a much more important game.

 

[pats1]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

So let me get this straight. After 2 days of free agency you're ready to back over the Pats front office with a bus? I just don't get it. There are plenty of moves left to be made. I didn't expect a Patsfans moderator of all people to hit the PANIC button this early into the offseason.

Please tell me when I said that. In the past 39 hours I've made absolutely no statements on the Patriots' performance in free agency to this point. That would be stupid.

You're putting words in my mouth, and if you go back into this thread you'll see that everything I've said has been a critique of the Pats' general performance over the past two calendar years and WHAT THEY NEED TO DO this offseason, not a declaration on what they HAVE done.

In other words, everything I've said to this point could have been said a week ago. I'm just choosing to say it now.

 

[wilfork is beastin']

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

I don't disagree with you at all, I just think if people expect the Pats to go into 2010 with basically the same roster that they had in 2009 they will be sorely disappointed. We've gone through this act for five seasons now. It's been ending badly each year, and especially worse the past two seasons.

It's not like the FO has let the team rot since 2004 and gone in every season without updating the roster. We finished the 06 season with Caldwell as our top WR, we went in the next year with Welker and Moss and made it to the SB. Those two guys weren't added to the roster the first day of free agency, and neither were guys like Rodney or Ted Washington.


Personally, I want the team to get an extension for Bodden as soon as possible, then take a look at Bryant and Branch for the WR issues. I also hope they give Will Witherspoon a call as well.

 

[slash83]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

It's not like the FO has let the team rot since 2004 and gone in every season without updating the roster. We finished the 06 season with Caldwell as our top WR, we went in the next year with Welker and Moss and made it to the SB. Those two guys weren't added to the roster the first day of free agency, and neither were guys like Rodney or Ted Washington.


Personally, I want the team to get an extension for Bodden as soon as possible, then take a look at Bryant and Branch for the WR issues. I also hope they give Will Witherspoon a call as well.

How bout Kirk Morrison from Oak? would cost us a 3rd rounder but the guy call play and is only like 27 years old.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

And most people agreed in their post-season evaluations that he should only be a rotational ILB because he is a major liability against the run. Did you watch the Ravens game?

Yes and aside from Wilfork and Mayo blowing the 1st play of the game, the Ravens ran for 3.6 YPC. Nice liability.

Chung wasn't needed? I didn't realize the Pats had such a solid secondary.

Meriweather, McGowan, Sanders... Yeah that is right Chung was NOT "needed", let him develop.

Pryor wasn't needed? How about when Wilfork went down and Brace was getting manhandled by the Bills?

That was early in the Bills game and Brace settled down. I don't know exactly why you expect rookies to play like seasoned vets. Pryor played well last season for his limited role.

Butler was benched after the Dolphins game. All indications were that Belichick had to recruit Springs to come back from his mid-season sabbatical ("inactive, probable with a knee injury...sorry AD!") and start down the stretch.

He was not "benched" and Springs was signed for a reason. Butler has to develop, we shouldn't be expecting him to come in as a rookie and start. That is not how BB prefers to develop players.

My intent wasn't to compare drafts, it was to show what players teams broguht in to help them go above and beyond the prior season's result.

Except you completely ignore that the Patriots were more set accross the board than the Colts were at WR. They absolutely needed their drafted receivers to contribute. I know the Colts are very good at drafting players for their system and I'm not trying to knock their draft at all. But it just seemed like we were comparing rookie seasons in a draft in 2 different situations that weren't really comparable.

I wonder if we were watching different teams last year. The team I was watching had talent problems, leadership problems, locker room problems, and experience problems.

I'm curious as to know how you watched leadership and locker room problems?

For all those problems, they still won the division and only got blown out by 1 team all season. Went into the last meaningless game with a 10-5 record. And held a lead in the 3rd or 4th quarter of every single loss except the Saints game.

Yes the team had flaws and inability to hold onto a lead was the biggest effect of these flaws. But to claim they weren't a good team last year I think is just wrong.

 

[pats1]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

It's not like the FO has let the team rot since 2004 and gone in every season without updating the roster. We finished the 06 season with Caldwell as our top WR, we went in the next year with Welker and Moss and made it to the SB.

You're making my point. Besides, just about every Pats team since 2004 has been better off for the next year at the end of the prior season than they are this year.

Those two guys weren't added to the roster the first day of free agency, and neither were guys like Rodney or Ted Washington.

Whether they were added on the first day of free agency or not is irrelevant to me, because I'm not basing any of my comments off what the Pats have done or haven't done so far. I'm just saying what they need to do, I don't care when they do it.

Personally, I want the team to get an extension for Bodden as soon as possible, then take a look at Bryant and Branch for the WR issues. I also hope they give Will Witherspoon a call as well.

All good ideas.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

There have been reports of them negotiating with Bodden for weeks, but he wanted to test the market. Don't let the facts get in the way of your attempt to bash the front office though

Yeah ok pal, what about all the other times this has happened. Over the years i've been one of the staunchest supporters of the FO and the franchise, but i have to admit that their stratigy is baffeling.

 

[emoney_33]

If the Pats needed to win to advance in the playoffs do they think they beat the Ravens or not? Oh, wait...

Do you or do you not think the Patriots could have and would have beaten the Texans.

The Ravens game is well documented, and losing Welker against a good defense was the nail in the coffin.

As is chalking it up as a win as part of an 11-5 record when the team **** the bed seven days later in a much more important game.

The Ravens were a much better team than the Texans, and the Ravens' strengths played directly against our fatal flaw sans Welker. I never chalked it up as a win but this team was much more of an 11-5 team than a 10-6 team.

 

[zipster9]

I want them to cut Morrs & Taylor. Then, sign Thomas Jones..

With this, you have a true RB with 1000yds/year engine. He will be 2x determined to "payback" the Jets. This would be a plus.

He will be our #1, with Laurence as our #2.

 

[emoney_33]

I quoted you saying The pats were really a 11 and 5 team, you can see how I might of been confused.

As far as the Pats losing to the Texans,,,I like to think the Pats were the better team, playing at home, maybe in a do over they win 7 out of 10, even if the playoffs were on the line I think the Pats at best would of won ugly.
However I am far from unbiased.

Let's see: Key players like Faulk, Maroney and Wilfork were not active for the Texans game. They held a lead going into the 4th quarter when they really weren't trying their damndest to win and were more working on things like getting Edelman in sync with Brady for the Ravens game. (See: Hoyer getting 2-minute drill work at end of halves etc...)

 

[emoney_33]

Re: La Canfora: Pats making late push for Bodden - Texans and Steelers in it

You're making my point. Besides, just about every Pats team since 2004 has been better off for the next year at the end of the prior season than they are this year.

The 2006 team ended the season in far worse shape than we are in.

Whether they were added on the first day of free agency or not is irrelevant to me, because I'm not basing any of my comments off what the Pats have done or haven't done so far. I'm just saying what they need to do, I don't care when they do it.

And I am very very confident they will do what is necessary to field a team that will once again win a tough division and be a threat in the playoffs, barring catastrophic injuries.