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Kenrick Ellis

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by tricktak, Mar 28, 2011.

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  1. tricktak

    tricktak Banned

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    I personally would love to grab this guy in the second round. He's a physical beast (6'5" 345 lbs.), Haloti Ngata type defensive lineman who can play anywhere on the line, whether it be nose tackle or end. He does have character flags but he's been doing well with his interviews and has been up front with the mistakes he's made. The Patriots did work him out so if he does well in an interview with them, I could see them taking him in the second round. He has much more upside than a Phil Taylor and possibly better potential and a better fit for the Patriots than JJ Watt and Cam Jordan.
     
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes.
    ........
     
  3. reamer

    reamer Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    . . . yes . . .

    :p
     
  4. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    What drugs was he using that got him suspended? If it's just weed, who gives a crap.
     
  5. reamer

    reamer Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I believe it was. And, while I view it more seriously than you do, the fact that he's matured, moved past that, and been honest in interviews bodes well for his future. I would love for him to end up under Wilfork's tutelage. He'd give us a presence we haven't had since Seymour (40+ career tackles for a loss, so he can collapse the pocket and get into the backfield).

    Trade down from 17--maybe with Atlanta?--and get a late 1st and late 2nd. Nab Ellis at 59, and take a good LB or OL at 27. We can add some excellent talent at those spots.
     
  6. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, Ellis was constantly in the coach's doghouse for being out of shape before that, and kept getting in trouble even after his first suspension at school 1, getting himself kicked out...then got suspended again at school 2. A pattern like that is worrisome.

    Even so, though, I love his potential and I'm a little more persuaded by his "seeing the light" than I am with Phil Taylor. I have a bad, bad feeling about Taylor.
     
  7. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Kenrick Ellis has intriguing physical tools and size. But faced a lower level of competition which frankly he should have dominated. I'm not sure about his character red flags, but those do drop him down the draft board imo. But in round 3? I wouldn't be averse to gambling on his potential as long as he checks out character-wise.
     
  8. MaineMan

    MaineMan 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    This might all be academic, depending on how desperate WAS, HOU, KC and PIT are for an NT and who they think the other possibilities are.
     
  9. stinkypete

    stinkypete In the Starting Line-Up

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    Aaron Hernandez had a history of weed usage, so let's drop the failed drug tests as a reason to drop him off the board.

    I am intrigued by the possibility of Ellis and Wilfork on the same line. Don't have any problem with emulating Baltimore's line.
     
  10. the wrothbroughterer

    the wrothbroughterer On the Game Day Roster

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    That's just not true. Watt is a near perfect fit for this system. He has all the physical traits you want and the mental makeup to match that has been observed outside of interviews. If you don't believe that Kenrick Ellis had some coaching from his representation about his "mistakes", you're kidding yourself.

    Ellis is among the most physically gifted DL prospects no doubt, but the kid was kicked off of one team and arrested for assault. He's a thug, and a thug that will take some coaching while simultaneously being a 24 year old rookie. Pass, pass, pass.
     
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again, I'm not sure how getting suspended and then kicked out of one school then suspended at another amidst rumors of multiple positive drug tests, academic issues, attitude problems and an assault arrest has turned into "just smoking a little weed."
     
  12. tricktak

    tricktak Banned

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    They won't pick Watt even if he's there at 17, he's too much like Mike Wright and doesn't have enough bulk that the patriots look for in their defensive linemen. I get the feeling too that they may not even look at Watt as a first round prospect, the patriots first round picks are usually physically gifted even if they have character problems, ala Meriweather, Watt had one great year at Wisconsin and is really more of a heart and effort guy and is not loaded with talent and that description would fit as a second round pick for the Patriots, If Watt was there in the second round, they would probably take him, but not the first. I do love Watt but Cameron Jordan is more physically gifted than Watt and would be a more likely pick. I think they'll either pick Jordan, Muhammed Wilkerson or Kenrick Ellis.
     
  13. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let's go for a little clarification here:

    Ellis was kicked off the South Carolina squad prior to the 2008 season after multiple infractions. He transferred to Hampton and played there 2008-2010. He was suspended by Hampton for the first game of the 2010 season, cause unknown. There is NO report of an assualt (that's Phil Taylor as far as I know), all of Ellis' violations were either related to drug use (reported to be marijuana identified through failed tests, and accumulation of missed meetings, classes, tardiness, etc.). He apparently did enough at Hampton to keep himself out of the coach's doghouse up until game one of this season.

    Is there a concern? Yes. Is it prohibitive to his being drafted by NE? I'm recalling Ron Brace and his rookie campaign, out of shape, poor work habits, assorted other minor issues. Somehow NE felt it reasonable to risk #40 on Brace, and this season saw some return on that investment courtesy of the Vince Wilfork Motivational Speaker Program. How does Ellis compare? Perhaps a shadier past, but not so much backsliding after the initial meltdown. Did Hampton see a problem starting to develop and nip it early? Perhaps, they are experienced with kids needing a second chance after truly stupid behavior, many worse than Ellis'. Ellis has a higher ceiling than Brace to go with that greater risk, is it worth another mid-round second (presuming trading seems reasonable)? I think NE has done some in-depth due diligence, the team which drafted Brace, Gronkowski (back injury), Spikes (slow as molasses), Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Vollmer (greenhorn OT), and without researching I'm sure other risks in the second round, isn't going to need a coin flip to decide to gamble. The talent checks out, NE just has to risk second round money. From patscap:

    Ron Brace - ProFootballTalk.Com's Aaron Wilson reported on July 17, 2009 that "Patriots have agreed to terms on a four-year rookie deal with second-round defensive lineman Ron Brace that includes $2.82 million in guaranteed money and carries a maximum value of nearly $4.5 million, according to a league source. Per the source, Brace will receive a $1.68 million option bonus next March as well as a $454,000 roster bonus in the middle of next month. The first-year salary is guaranteed and the second-year salary will include $373,000 in guaranteed money.The contract includes a fourth-year escalator clause based on playing time that could boost the total value of the deal to the $4.5 million level." I am figuring that the $2.82 million in guaranteed money consists of the following: $454,000 2009 roster bonus, $310,000 2009 salary, $1,680,000 2010 option bonus, and $373,000 of his 2010 $395,000 salary. I am guesstimating that his 2011 salary is $586,000 and that his 2012 salary is $777,000 so that his deal perfectly tracks the 25% rule for rookie deals. With my presumption Brace's contract has a maximum value of $4.202 million excluding offseason bonuses

    Rob Gronkowski - Unsigned 2010 draft picks are automatically tendered the rookie salary of $320,000.
    July 26, 2010 update ProFootballTalk.Com's Mike Florio blogged that "Gronkowsi's deal pays a signing bonus of $1.76 million and a one-time incentive based on minimum playing time in the amount of $830,000. The contract includes minimum base salaries ($320,000 in 2010, $405,000 in 2011, $490,000 in 2012, and $575,00 in 2013). The 2013 base salary is fully guaranteed for skill and injury. Also, $255,000 of the 2012 salary is guaranteed. (Once the one-time incentive is earned, the base salaries become non-guaranteed.) In all, $2.59 million is guaranteed; the only question is whether it the $830,000 above and beyond the signing bonus comes from the one-timer or the guaranteed base salaries in 2012 and 2013. The deal also includes $30,000 in workout bonuses for the last two years, triggered if the one-time incentive is earned."

    Two examples with some nice guaranteed money, but I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't language which can be included voiding some of those guarantees in the wake of a failed drug test or other misbehavior.
     
  14. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Box, here are some links that attribute the Hampton suspension to an assault arrest:

    Talent & Physical Tools – Character & Consistency = ? | NFL Draft Blog – DraftCountdown.com
    Sideline Scouting - Kenrick Ellis Scouting Report
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting, assault arrests are one game suspensions? I wonder if the term "assault" here is used in the strictly legal sense of verbal altercation as opposed to the more painful assault & battery? Not that I've ever had much confidence in DraftCountdown. Sideline Scouting I'm not sure.

    I checked his NFL Draft Scout profile, and up until now I don't recall any articles or TV commentary attributing his suspension to an arrest. I find it interesting that NE, which to my knowledge hasn't sniffed around Phil Taylor to any measurable degree, took time to workout Ellis. Tis the season of the draft paradox.
     
  16. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Amen, Brother.

    More than anyone in this draft, JJ Watt was BORN to be a Patriot. :cool:

    ***

    Brother Tak, I salute your espousal of Kenrick Ellis, who I have been PRAYING for us to get ~ him or Phil Taylor, who is now off my Board ~ since Halloween...But if you honestly think that JJ Watt compares to Mike Wright...:eek:

    Well, let's just say our views diverge. ;)

    TAK!!

    [​IMG]
     
  17. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Puzzling for sure. But anyway, reports like those -- whatever the truth behind them -- at least explain why you and I had such different impressions of Ellis's "resume."
     
  18. DNR

    DNR Practice Squad Player

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    An "assault" charge can be for something as simple as pushing or poking someone in the chest during an argument. I learned that the hard way. It's a very lame charge and considering it happened at a party where the drinks and testosterone are plenty....I am not the slightest bit concerned about it.


    *** Just read that it was from breaking a guys nose and jaw. Still would need to know the full story behind the altercation before passing judgement. A fight is a fight...who here hasn't had one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  19. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hear you -- and I'm one who is willing to excuse a nasty fight on Jabaal Sheard's record. The problem with Ellis, IMO, is that it's "just" a fight, and "just" academic trouble, and "just" smoking weed, and "just" continuing to smoke it even after being suspended for positive drug tests. At what point is that "just" too much? You see the word immature attached to him a lot, which in the past has been a huge red flag for players who continued to get into trouble in the NFL.
     
  20. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    The talent level is there. The level of competition he faced is questionable. And he does have some red flags character-wise. Furthermore I think he's more of a DT than a DE. That being said he shows enough promise that 3rd round pick could be worth the investment if he checks out ok.
     
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