It Looks Like No Long term Deal between Pats and Welker

[RobertWeathers]

You wanted to claim that Welker was somehow shut down when he wasn't, and were willing to move the goalposts when your point was successfully refuted ....

Be better than that.

You are twisting my words, Deus. I said teams contain WW in the playoffs- not shut down. Moss gets shut down.

It's a statistical fact that WWs #s go down in the playoffs as he is facing better defenses.

 

[Deus Irae]

You are twisting my words, Deus. I said teams contain WW in the playoffs- not shut down. Moss gets shut down.

It's a statistical fact that WWs #s go down in the playoffs. Does he still have value? Of course. Nothing was refuted. Still waiting.....

Context of the discussion: Contains = shut down. Furthermore, your numbers are absolutely meaningless without about 1000% more information behind them, and were a blatant attempt to move the goalposts.


Point refuted. Wait no longer.

Edit: I don't even disagree with your general take. Good defenses will impact a good offense, particularly if they can cut down the number of ways that offense can hurt them. It's when you go to the specifics of Welker (particularly when you went just to the YPC) that your point goes off the rails.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Context of the discussion: Contains = shut down. Furthermore, your numbers are absolutely meaningless without about 1000% more information behind them, and were a blatant attempt to move the goalposts.


Point refuted. Wait no longer.

Edit: I don't even disagree with your general take. Good defenses will impact a good offense, particularly if they can cut down the number of ways that offense can hurt them. It's when you go to the specifics of Welker (particularly when you went just to the YPC) that your point goes off the rails.

Thats fine but my intent was to NEVER say WW was shut down. Andy said defenses try to stop him and don't and I said that defenses have been successful in containing him. Thats the context.

Yea his YAC and 1st downs per game go down in the playoffs. I just didn't feel like doing the math and publishing it. YAC goes down like a yd and a 1/2 yds and # of 1st downs per game goes down by a little more than a whole 1st down.

 

[Boomer B]

There is a high degree of correlation between explosion plays and scoring td's.Case in point Mario Manningham's catch against us. Thus players who give you this dimension are more valuable so Wes is clearly lacking in this thus its a black mark against him.
Low ypc lead to field goals and punting.

Come on, low YPC lead to punting and field goals? That is pure B.S.

Welker was 1st in catches, 2nd in yards, 3rd in TD's, 1st in 1st downs. Since he's been here the Pats have been a top 3 offense, not a team that's leading the league in punts.

 

[Joker]

heh..well now Boom...low testosterone leads to less scoring and making the "end zone"...perhaps the Pats should make Welker take Viagra??

 

[Frezo]

heh..well now Boom...low testosterone leads to less scoring and making the "end zone"...perhaps the Pats should make Welker take Viagra??

I hope not. It's just something else to tackle him by.

 

[Joker]

Hasn't Goodell made up a rule about that yet??..as of the 2012 season , scrote collaring will no longer be allowed...

 

[Frezo]

Hasn't Goodell made up a rule about that yet??..as of the 2012 season , scrote collaring will no longer be allowed...

Oh that's right. The penalty is loss of a late round prick.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thats fine but my intent was to NEVER say WW was shut down. Andy said defenses try to stop him and don't and I said that defenses have been successful in containing him. Thats the context.

The context in the thread was him getting shut down. We seem to be at a bit of loggerhead here over that, and it's not really key, so let's just call it a misunderstanding and leave it at that.

Yea his YAC and 1st downs per game go down in the playoffs. I just didn't feel like doing the math and publishing it. YAC goes down like a yd and a 1/2 yds and # of 1st downs per game goes down by a little more than a whole 1st down.

His catch numbers are fine though, so just pointing out the YAC and firsts without other data doesn't prove your point. Whether he's actually being contained or the issue is Brady having to go to him on more checkdown type routes because other reads are getting shut down is not answered by the data.

 

[Joker]

Toe tickling under the pile WILL continue to be allowed however...at all Jet home games...

 

[RobertWeathers]

The context in the thread was him getting shut down. We seem to be at a bit of loggerhead here over that, and it's not really key, so let's just call it a misunderstanding and leave it at that.



His catch numbers are fine though, so just pointing out the YAC and firsts without other data doesn't prove your point. Whether he's actually being contained or the issue is Brady having to go to him on more checkdown type routes because other reads are getting shut down is not answered by the data.

I agree. My point is that his numbers go down vs better teams with theoretically better defenses. I don't need piles of stats to tell me that. I will say of those 7 playoff games, I'd say that Brady had a "good" game in 2 of them (DEN and JAX), one ok one (NYG #2) and sub-par games for the rest. Could be an overplay on WW. Could be pass rush. Could be anything. My point is that vs playoff teams with better defenses, WW's numbers are down if compared to the regular season.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

heh..well now Boom...low testosterone leads to less scoring and making the "end zone"...perhaps the Pats should make Welker take Viagra??

I've seen his wife. No need.

 

[Kontradiction]

If no deal gets done (and it's looking like there won't be one), Welker needs to flip the Pats the bird next offseason and not sign the franchise tender. I'm sure Brady would be absolutely ecstatic if that happened.

 

[Bartmac36]

Not that Welker's work ethic needs any added boost, but does anyone else think that not reaching a long term deal could be a good thing this year? It will give Welker that much more motivation to have a monster year to improve his free agent chances next year. Since i don't think he's the type to slouch and mope all season if hes not happy.

 

[Jimke]

Nobody knows for sure if there will be a deal or no deal. We haven't
reached zero hour yet. With e-mail and fax machines, a deal could be
brokered in a very short time.

 

[Joker]

is Welker going somewhere else??..No??...will he NOT sign the tender??..No?...then this issue is done for the season...close the books on this passion play until next March...he signs the tender , takes his 9+ or 11 + million dollar contract for the season andthen we'll see if the poor iddle widdle Welksie poo can survive on THAT until the spring.

Personally, I'm hoping the Pats have a strong season and get back in the big game. Time to shift the emphasis to that instead of this "As The Welker Turns" contract soap opera.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

yup..last year with Welker...lets hope it's a good one. Put his $$ twords hernandez

 

[sly24]

at the beginning of the offseason I was like, oh no we might lose welker that would be terrible. Now I really don't care. Of course I'd like to keep him, but I really feel he's not worth that kind of money.

 

[RobertWeathers]

at the beginning of the offseason I was like, oh no we might lose welker that would be terrible. Now I really don't care. Of course I'd like to keep him, but I really feel he's not worth that kind of money.

Granted with Gronk, AH, Lloyd, Gaff and some decent runners the offense would be highly effective. With a much-improved defense, they would still contend for a SB.

Having WW puts them in the stratosphere regardless.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Wes Welker SB MVP Feb 2013