Is the all time Patriot team the best all time team? I think so.

[BobDigital]

I think there is an argument. Depending on how many years you need to be here to be considered an all time Patriot. A real argument.


QB - Brady
RB - Cunningham, Martin, Faulk (3rd down)
TE - Gronk, Coates
WR - Moss, Morgan, Fryer, Edelman
OL - Holloway Hannah Morris Mankins, Armstrong

DL - Seymour, Wilfork, Houston Antwine, Bob D, Jim Hunt
LB - Tippett, Buoniconti, Hightower, Bruschi, Nelson, McGinest(swing man)
CB - Haynes, Law, Butler
S - McCourty, Harrison, Milloy

K - Adam V.
All rounder for back up duty - Gino Cappelletti
Coach - BB

I didn't fill out a full 53 but the guys who would see the field the most and the reason so many DL and LBs was to have the 3-4 or 4-3 option.

We can debate guys over other guys but I am trying to imagine this team vs others.

Pats Edge

QB - advantage over any team period
TE - advantage over any team period

Those 2 spots are clear where the all time Pats have the edge with a devastating 1-2 combo in pass catching and run blocking TEs and the best QB. A big reason the Pats might be the best all time team is the fact I don't think any other all time team has the edge in 2 spots. That is huge.

In the mix with the best units.

DBs - as good as anyone - Maybe a few teams are as good but I don't know if I would consider any as having better DBs.
OL - as good as anyone - Maybe I would give all time Broncos or Dallas an edge but is is very close and close enough to put this group against the other elite squads.
K - Adam V is clutch within 50 but the distance means a few guys could be argued to be just as good. In certain situations he is the best. Kicking it out the back of the end zone? Nope. But as good as any kicker.

Lacking

WR - Even if the Pats count Moss their all time WR list as far as depth of stars pales in comparison to others. The Pats have had maybe 2 great WRs... maybe. Other teams have had 4 or 5.
RB - The Pats have had a lot of good RBs but no Jim Brown or Payton or Sanders transcendent player. They can't compete in that area.
LB - Tippett is a top 10 all time guy but other teams with 10 top guys have more talent behind them.
DL - The Pats have never been a team with amazing pass rushers. Their best is probably Tippett and that doesn't bode well.

STs? Who knows it is hard to say. But i like the Pats. They have had some good returners and coverage guys and punters. I will not go into all of that but the unit all time is fairly solid.

While other teams may boast more HOFers and some sexier names this all time Pats team might be the best particularly with modern NFL rules that make it a passing game.

 

[Ivan]

I'm not sure if you are going by their time in NE or by their career. If it's by career then Seau has to be on this team.

 

[Ivan]

I think there is an argument. Depending on how many years you need to be here to be considered an all time Patriots a real argument.


QB - Brady
RB - Cunningham, Martin, Faulk (3rd down)
TE - Gronk, Coates
WR - Moss, Morgan, Fryer, Edelman
OL - Holloway Hannah Morris Mankins, Armstrong

DL - Seymour, Wilfork, Houston Antwine, Bob D, Jim Hunt
LB - Tippett, Buoniconti, Hightower, Bruschi, Nelson, McGinest(swing man)
CB - Haynes, Law, Butler
S - McCourty, Harrison, Milloy

K - Adam V.
All rounder for back up duty - Gino Cappelletti
Coach - BB

I didn't fill out a full 53 but the guys who would see the field the most and the reason so many DL and LBs was to have the 3-4 or 4-3 option.

We can debate guys over other guys but I am trying to imagine this team vs others.

Pats Edge

QB - advantage over any team period
TE - advantage over any team period

Those 2 spots are clear where the all time Pats have the edge with a devastating 1-2 combo in pass catching and run blocking TEs and the best QB. A big reason the Pats might be the best all time team is the fact I don't think any other all time team has the edge in 2 spots. That is huge.

In the mix with the best units.

DBs - as good as anyone - Maybe a few teams are as good but I don't know if I would consider any as having better DBs.
OL - as good as anyone - Maybe I would give all time Broncos or Dallas an edge but is is very close and close enough to put this group against the other elite squads.
K - Adam V is clutch within 50 but the distance means a few guys could be argued to be just as good. In certain situations he is the best. Kicking it out the back of the end zone? Nope. But as good as any kicker.

Lacking

WR - Even if the Pats count Moss their all time WR list as far as depth of stars pales in comparison to others. The Pats have had maybe 2 great WRs... maybe. Other teams have had 4 or 5.
RB - The Pats have had a lot of good RBs but no Jim Brown or Payton or Sanders transcendent player. They can't compete in that area.
LB - Tippett is a top 10 all time guy but other teams with 10 top guys have more talent behind them.
DL - The Pats have never been a team with amazing pass rushers. Their best is probably Tippett and that doesn't bode well.

STs? Who knows it is hard to say. But i like the Pats. They have had some good returners and coverage guys and punters. I will not go into all of that but the unit all time is fairly solid.

While other teams may boast more HOFers and some sexier names this all time Pats team might be the best particularly with modern NFL rules that make it a passing game.

Great list by the way.

 

[sean10mm]

I hesitate to say yes, mainly because the Patriots as a franchise weren't at their peak in the era when the lack of a salary cap & free agency made it easy for a handful of teams to hoard talent and build crazy rosters.

The 1990s Patriots aren't comparable to any of the dominant franchises of the 1990s. Certainly not the Cowboys.
The 1980s Patriots aren't comparable to any of the dominant franchises of the 1980s. Certainly not the 49ers.
The 1970s Patriots aren't even in the conversation vs. the dominant franchises of the 1970s like the Steelers.

An all-21st century Patriots team would annihilate any other franchise's all-21st century team though. Like 75-0 or something. It would just be stupid.

 

[The Gr8est]

I would swap Coates for Russ Francis; hell, just keep all three.

Gotta find a spot for Ray Clayborn too.

Add Troy Brown to the WRs.

 

[Ivan]

I would have to see the other all time teams and the 49ers would be really hard to top.

 

[Kontradiction]

I would have to see the other all time teams and the 49ers would be really hard to top.

Dallas would be up there, too. Steelers.

 

[Brick27]

TE might go to the Chargers if no restrictions on years played.

Chargers have two current and one future HOFers in Winslow, Mackey, and Gates. Granted Mackey only played a year there.

Also to piggyback off the poster below.. the argument for Montana and Young having an edge over Brady and Bledsoe could mainly be because Young's advantage over Bledsoe is greater than the difference between Brady and Montana

 

[PatsFanInVa]

49ers are one step behind us at qb, and miles ahead at WR1. Was thinking of your "best 1-2" units. Still, Gronk is like TFB - no contest at his position.

Vs. other teams it's hard to call our other units anything other than "meh."

Quibbles; no Leon grey on o line
Adam V wasn't the complete kicker Gost was.

They've both had their misses

Also mosi tatupu - first guy w best last name in sports

 

[Raymond]

I think there is an argument. Depending on how many years you need to be here to be considered an all time Patriots a real argument.QB - Brady
RB -

Great list Bob. I'm thinking you are retired now due to the detail work you put in your posts. I would never have time for this detail.

Nice job.

 

[BlacknGold77]

I think there is an argument. Depending on how many years you need to be here to be considered an all time Patriots a real argument.


QB - Brady
RB - Cunningham, Martin, Faulk (3rd down)
TE - Gronk, Coates
WR - Moss, Morgan, Fryer, Edelman
OL - Holloway Hannah Morris Mankins, Armstrong

DL - Seymour, Wilfork, Houston Antwine, Bob D, Jim Hunt
LB - Tippett, Buoniconti, Hightower, Bruschi, Nelson, McGinest(swing man)
CB - Haynes, Law, Butler
S - McCourty, Harrison, Milloy

K - Adam V.
All rounder for back up duty - Gino Cappelletti
Coach - BB

I didn't fill out a full 53 but the guys who would see the field the most and the reason so many DL and LBs was to have the 3-4 or 4-3 option.

We can debate guys over other guys but I am trying to imagine this team vs others.

Pats Edge

QB - advantage over any team period
TE - advantage over any team period

Those 2 spots are clear where the all time Pats have the edge with a devastating 1-2 combo in pass catching and run blocking TEs and the best QB. A big reason the Pats might be the best all time team is the fact I don't think any other all time team has the edge in 2 spots. That is huge.

In the mix with the best units.

DBs - as good as anyone - Maybe a few teams are as good but I don't know if I would consider any as having better DBs.
OL - as good as anyone - Maybe I would give all time Broncos or Dallas an edge but is is very close and close enough to put this group against the other elite squads.
K - Adam V is clutch within 50 but the distance means a few guys could be argued to be just as good. In certain situations he is the best. Kicking it out the back of the end zone? Nope. But as good as any kicker.

Lacking

WR - Even if the Pats count Moss their all time WR list as far as depth of stars pales in comparison to others. The Pats have had maybe 2 great WRs... maybe. Other teams have had 4 or 5.
RB - The Pats have had a lot of good RBs but no Jim Brown or Payton or Sanders transcendent player. They can't compete in that area.
LB - Tippett is a top 10 all time guy but other teams with 10 top guys have more talent behind them.
DL - The Pats have never been a team with amazing pass rushers. Their best is probably Tippett and that doesn't bode well.

STs? Who knows it is hard to say. But i like the Pats. They have had some good returners and coverage guys and punters. I will not go into all of that but the unit all time is fairly solid.

While other teams may boast more HOFers and some sexier names this all time Pats team might be the best particularly with modern NFL rules that make it a passing game.

Welker and Troy Brown over Fryer and Edelman. Welker and Brown are 1 and 2 all time in Patriots receptions.

Since its as of today, Vrabel over Hightower. Though i fully believe Hightower will have the greater career

at TE, I have to give the edge to San Diego with Kellen Winslow Sr and Antonio Gates.

a few teams beat the Pats at kicker. I love Adam, and he is the best clutch kicker ever. But entire body of work he's above average

 

[Robdude]

Definitely something to think about and a very good list Bob. Without writing out the roster I would put Dallas on the top of the list. They were dominant twice with two different rosters

Dorset and Smith
Aikman and Staubach
Too Tall Jones, Randy White, Bob Lilly

All pop to mind plus solid Wrs and TEs. I am sure there are more but they were pretty impressive. I do not know the OL but they had great RBs so they must have had a great line

 

[Ring 6]

49ers are one step behind us at qb, and miles ahead at WR1. Was thinking of your "best 1-2" units. Still, Gronk is like TFB - no contest at his position.

Vs. other teams it's hard to call our other units anything other than "meh."

Quibbles; no Leon grey on o line
Adam V wasn't the complete kicker Gost was.

They've both had their misses

Also mosi tatupu - first guy w best last name in sports

Rice is better than moss but certainly not by miles.

 

[jimnance]

I think there is an argument. Depending on how many years you need to be here to be considered an all time Patriots a real argument.


QB - Brady
RB - Cunningham, Martin, Faulk (3rd down)
TE - Gronk, Coates
WR - Moss, Morgan, Fryer, Edelman
OL - Holloway Hannah Morris Mankins, Armstrong

DL - Seymour, Wilfork, Houston Antwine, Bob D, Jim Hunt
LB - Tippett, Buoniconti, Hightower, Bruschi, Nelson, McGinest(swing man)
CB - Haynes, Law, Butler
S - McCourty, Harrison, Milloy

K - Adam V.
All rounder for back up duty - Gino Cappelletti
Coach - BB

I didn't fill out a full 53 but the guys who would see the field the most and the reason so many DL and LBs was to have the 3-4 or 4-3 option.

We can debate guys over other guys but I am trying to imagine this team vs others.

Pats Edge

QB - advantage over any team period
TE - advantage over any team period

Those 2 spots are clear where the all time Pats have the edge with a devastating 1-2 combo in pass catching and run blocking TEs and the best QB. A big reason the Pats might be the best all time team is the fact I don't think any other all time team has the edge in 2 spots. That is huge.

In the mix with the best units.

DBs - as good as anyone - Maybe a few teams are as good but I don't know if I would consider any as having better DBs.
OL - as good as anyone - Maybe I would give all time Broncos or Dallas an edge but is is very close and close enough to put this group against the other elite squads.
K - Adam V is clutch within 50 but the distance means a few guys could be argued to be just as good. In certain situations he is the best. Kicking it out the back of the end zone? Nope. But as good as any kicker.

Lacking

WR - Even if the Pats count Moss their all time WR list as far as depth of stars pales in comparison to others. The Pats have had maybe 2 great WRs... maybe. Other teams have had 4 or 5.
RB - The Pats have had a lot of good RBs but no Jim Brown or Payton or Sanders transcendent player. They can't compete in that area.
LB - Tippett is a top 10 all time guy but other teams with 10 top guys have more talent behind them.
DL - The Pats have never been a team with amazing pass rushers. Their best is probably Tippett and that doesn't bode well.

STs? Who knows it is hard to say. But i like the Pats. They have had some good returners and coverage guys and punters. I will not go into all of that but the unit all time is fairly solid.

While other teams may boast more HOFers and some sexier names this all time Pats team might be the best particularly with modern NFL rules that make it a passing game.

Jim Nance was hands down the best Pats rb of all time-and it's not close.
He was bigger faster stronger and way more dominating than both sambam and martin.
His career was short-lived but Nance's best was WAY better than Martin or sambams best. Nance could dominate and take over a game by himself. So if you're looking for the Pats who reached the highest peaks- you gotta have Nance. Cut faulk. I've seen all their careers. Not close.
I agree about the cbs. Hard to leave Ray clay off,but I'd also put law and Butler slightly ahead. Haynes is in the conversation for greatest cb of all time.

 

[BobDigital]

I would also add that only 11 players play at any one time for your team so while other might have better depth than ours clearly our front line talent is on par with any teams.

If anything I think I might be understating how good our DBs are. When you think about it they are crazy good there.

 

[VectorPrime]

The majority of our best ever roster features players from the modern era who would absolutely wreck anyone who played in the 60s-70s so that's a big plus.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think there is an argument. Depending on how many years you need to be here to be considered an all time Patriots a real argument.


QB - Brady
RB - Cunningham, Martin, Faulk (3rd down)
TE - Gronk, Coates
WR - Moss, Morgan, Fryer, Edelman
OL - Holloway Hannah, Brock, Mankins, Armstrong

DL - Seymour, Wilfork, Houston Antwine, Bob D, Jim Hunt
LB - Tippett, Buoniconti, Hightower, Bruschi, Nelson, McGinest(swing man)
CB - Haynes, Law, Butler
S - McCourty, Harrison, Milloy

K - Adam V.
All rounder for back up duty - Gino Cappelletti
Coach - BB

.

Added a few

QB - Brady, Bledsoe
RB - Dillon, Martin, Faulk, Cunningham, Collins
TE - Gronk, Francis, Coates
WR - Moss, Morgan,Welker, Edelman, Brown
OL - Light, Hannah Morris Mankins, Armstrong

DL - Seymour, Wilfork, Houston Antwine, Bob D, Jim Hunt
LB - Tippett, Buoniconti, Hightower, Bruschi, Nelson, McGinest(swing man)
CB - Haynes, Law, Butler, Clayborn
S - McCourty, Harrison, Milloy, Marion

K - Adam V.
P- Camarillo
All rounder for back up duty - Gino Cappelletti
Coach - BB

 

[jmt57]

I would have to go with Raymond Clayborn over Malcolm Butler.

That could very well change by the time his career is over, but for right now I would go with RayClay. Don't forget how good a kick returner he was, before the Pats decided they didn't want him on that unit in order to avoid potential injuries.


Ben Coates vs Russ Francis is a tough call. Francis was one of the best blocking tight ends in the game, something that doesn't show up in his personal stats (which are skewed in large part due to how the game has changed).


Give me Julius Adams over Bob Dee at defensive end. I might consider Ray Hamilton over Jim Lee Hunt at defensive tackle as well.


Add in a handful of core special teamers for good measure: Mosi Tatupu, Larry Izzo, Larry Whigham and Matt Slater.

 

[zoostation]

Added a few

QB - Brady, Bledsoe
RB - Dillon, Martin, Faulk, Cunningham, Collins
TE - Gronk, Francis, Coates
WR - Moss, Morgan,Welker, Edelman, Brown
OL - Light, Hannah Morris Mankins, Armstrong

DL - Seymour, Wilfork, Houston Antwine, Bob D, Jim Hunt
LB - Tippett, Buoniconti, Hightower, Bruschi, Nelson, McGinest(swing man)
CB - Haynes, Law, Butler, Clayborn
S - McCourty, Harrison, Milloy, Marion

K - Adam V.
P- Camarillo
All rounder for back up duty - Gino Cappelletti
Coach - BB

I like this list. Clayborn is by far the 3rd best corner in team history behind Haynes and Law. Thanks for the super bowl Malcolm but the other 3 had long consistent careers. Also the original Gronk, Russ Francis is a no brainer.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I like this list. Clayborn is by far the 3rd best corner in team history behind Haynes and Law. Thanks for the super bowl Malcolm but the other 3 had long consistent careers. Also the original Gronk, Russ Francis is a no brainer.

Clayborn deserved to be on that list. So did Welker. Fryar was outstanding with MIA and PHI but I do not think he was a better FOOTBALL player than Welker.

The real argument is Dillon v C-Mart in their primes. Its a pick 'em IMO.

Russ needs to be on there. So does Coates so I put them both on for 3 TE sets.