Is Caldwell done?

[T-ShirtDynasty]

I found it amusing and unneccessary(sp).

Myriad is a pretty common word, there's nothing terribly superfluous about it. It's not like it's one of those 'impress your friends' two-dollar words. Like, say... umm.... "superfluous".

It's just that there is a myriad of other words that he could have used instead.

Name five.

 

[Keegs]

What about the catch against the Chargers in the playoffs that won the game. That doesn't count?

It was a good catch.

My grandmother would have made it though and she would have stayed in bounds.

Most nfl receivers can make that catch.. but i'm sure that will be shot down since this is turning into the "Reche Caldwell is the greatest patriot receiver ever" thread.

 

[Keegs]

That's not a fact. Caldwell had 16 catches in the postseason last year, third highest of any WR.

I'm so sick of hearing about "the drop". IMO, Tom Brady screwed up that scoring opportunity when he was the last person in the stadium to notice that nobody was covering Caldwell. Timing is everything.

Brady screwed up. So what? It happens. I'm not calling for him to be cut.

so he had a lot of catches.... then he dropped 2 easy HUGE catches in the biggest game of his career.

and it's not just "the drop"... it is "the drops".

 

[pats1]

Maybe we could trade Caldwell for a draft pick.

He's shown he is reliable in the regular season but not in the playoffs.
THAT IS A FACT

there's not much use for him on this team unless we are really short on receivers... which we aren't anymore..

But feel free to respond to this with his cap number or how many catches he had last season....

He met or exceeded his catches/game average in all 3 of his playoff games.

But since he dropped a pass against the Colts, we should draw and quarter him?

 

[fillylabinga]

There just aren't enough footballs to go around in NE now. It's a nice problem to have if you're a Pats fan. Not so much if you're a Pats WR.

I really only see 4 WRs getting any meaningful playing time this season and only 4 WRs being active on Sundays. The main reason being that they already have a 5th WR: Ben Watson.

I think that means:

1. Donte' Stallworth and Kelley Washington make the team as the #1 and #4 guys (as 1 year rentals, at most 1 of them is around next year)

2. Wes Welker is definitely around long term as the #3/PR guy (he's the only one they really made an investment in)

3. Chad Jackson goes to IR. Troy Brown retires.

4. Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney are fighting for the same spot (probably #2) with Reche making 2x the money...

...bye, bye, Reche.

 

[Rob0729]

1.

$1.871M is NOT backup money. Only one in three NFL players this year will make that much. 22 out of 53 players on the roster will be starters (not counting special teams). Do the math.

2.

BB brought in Morris because he has more talent than what he is being paid.

BB will cut, restructure or trade Caldwell because he has less talent than what he is getting paid.

If BB acquires (potentially through the draft) somebody who can replace Jarvis, and BB feels that he has enough depth at defensive end, he will cut, restructure or trade Jarvis.

So it is ok to pay back ups starter money when it suits your point. Ok, so we got that straight we can continue the arguement.

The ONLY projected starters who have a lower cap hit than Caldwell are players playing under their rookie contracts. That is the sole reason why there are starters who get paid less than Caldwell. Guys like Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, and Logan Mankins have lower caps, but if these guys were in their second contract they would be exponentially higher than Caldwell.

You are not looking at the big picture. Caldwell is the lowest paid starter from last season who started the season as a starter who aren't playing under a rookie contract.

 

[ayjackson]

I'm not writing him off, but I can't see why you think Washington is more of a fit as the #2.

He's a good fit as the #4.

Again, I see your point. But Washington has to beat out Caldwell for that starting spot, and quite frankly the odds are against him at this point.

Okay, I see the point of departure then. Most disagreements never get this far. The crux of the matter is, that I think that BB/SP signed him to do just that - beat out Caldwell for number two. And IF he does (I think he will, you think he won't), Caldwell will be down to fourth or lower on the depth chart, and at $2m, would be likely to be traded or cut.

 

[ayjackson]

so he had a lot of catches.... then he dropped 2 easy HUGE catches in the biggest game of his career.

and it's not just "the drop"... it is "the drops".

That's a point I'd never considered. Like in golf, the yips are never a problem until you've had one. Then they're always a problem, just ask Tom Watson.

 

[pats1]

1.

$1.871M is NOT backup money. Only one in three NFL players this year will make that much. 22 out of 53 players on the roster will be starters (not counting special teams). Do the math.

There's no mathematical way to determine that. One team could have 5 starters with more than $2 mil., while another could have 20.

BB brought in Morris because he has more talent than what he is being paid.

So, what do you want to pay Morris? $5 mil. a year? 6?

BB will cut, restructure or trade Caldwell because he has less talent than what he is getting paid.

Right. That's why Caldwell produced more than Morris in 2006 yet still is being paid less than Morris in 2007.

If BB acquires (potentially through the draft) somebody who can replace Jarvis, and BB feels that he has enough depth at defensive end, he will cut, restructure or trade Jarvis.

:eat2:

...

It was pretty fun watching your credibility fall through the floor...the basement...the slab...

 

[solman]

1) Your obvious agenda against Reche Caldwell. He had more catches than friggin' Chris Chambers last year.

You can't measure a player's talent by stats alone. Amongst other things, you have to look at the team and environment around him.

Peyton Manning had better stats than Tom Brady last year.

But Manning had Harrison, Wayne, a dome to play in, and a defense that let the opposition score at will.

Brady had Caldwell, Gabriel, the Razor, and a bend but don't break defense that held its opponents to the second fewest points in the league.

You can't tell me that Manning's stats last year make him a clearly superior quarterback.

His stats tell you just as much about the environment that he was placed in, as they do about his skills.

If you play with Tom Brady at his peak, and you are his primary target, 61 catches is NOT a great number.

 

[pats1]

Okay, I see the point of departure then. Most disagreements never get this far. The crux of the matter is, that I think that BB/SP signed him to do just that - beat out Caldwell for number two. And IF he does (I think he will, you think he won't), Caldwell will be down to fourth or lower on the depth chart, and at $2m, would be likely to be traded or cut.

I think the Pats signed Washington to be the #4 WR and fill the hole Jackson will likely leave.

Even if he's somehow able to beat out Caldwell, I still don't see why they'd rather have Childress than Caldwell for the sake of $1,000,000. Both Stallworth and Washington have had injury problems in the past few years. There aren't too many #4 WRs in the NFL who have produced for 61 catches in a season.

 

[Deus Irae]

You can't measure a player's talent by stats alone. Amongst other things, you have to look at the team and environment around him.

Peyton Manning had better stats than Tom Brady last year.

But Manning had Harrison, Wayne, a dome to play in, and a defense that let the opposition score at will.

Brady had Caldwell, Gabriel, the Razor, and a bend but don't break defense that held its opponents to the second fewest points in the league.

You can't tell me that Manning's stats last year make him a clearly superior quarterback.

His stats tell you just as much about the environment that he was placed in, as they do about his skills.

If you play with Tom Brady at his peak, and you are his primary target, 61 catches is NOT a great number.

Prior to his missing games, I believe that Ben Watson was actually Brady's primary target. So, according to your logic, it's time to cut Ben Watson, not Caldwell.

 

[pats1]

There just aren't enough footballs to go around in NE now. It's a nice problem to have if you're a Pats fan. Not so much if you're a Pats WR.

I really only see 4 WRs getting any meaningful playing time this season and only 4 WRs being active on Sundays. The main reason being that they already have a 5th WR: Ben Watson.

I think that means:

1. Donte' Stallworth and Kelley Washington make the team as the #1 and #4 guys (as 1 year rentals, at most 1 of them is around next year)

2. Wes Welker is definitely around long term as the #3/PR guy (he's the only one they really made an investment in)

3. Chad Jackson goes to IR. Troy Brown retires.

4. Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney are fighting for the same spot (probably #2) with Reche making 2x the money...

...bye, bye, Reche.

Caldwell and Gaffney will both make the team, unless the Pats pick up/draft someone else.

$750,000 - Gaffney - for a 5th WR is fine.

 

[pats1]

You can't measure a player's talent by stats alone. Amongst other things, you have to look at the team and environment around him.

Peyton Manning had better stats than Tom Brady last year.

But Manning had Harrison, Wayne, a dome to play in, and a defense that let the opposition score at will.

Brady had Caldwell, Gabriel, the Razor, and a bend but don't break defense that held its opponents to the second fewest points in the league.

You can't tell me that Manning's stats last year make him a clearly superior quarterback.

His stats tell you just as much about the environment that he was placed in, as they do about his skills.

If you play with Tom Brady at his peak, and you are his primary target, 61 catches is NOT a great number.

You certainly do an excellent job of ignoring the Pats' philosophy of spreading around the ball.

(Which, of course, only helps my point that having Caldwell around in no way hurts the Pats.)

 

[solman]

The Pat's success is founded on being smart with how they spent money.


Four Caldwells is NOT greater than one AD. Not on a team with multiple alternative receiving options. Not even close.

Say What?

pats1 says that $1.9M is irrelevant with the cap were it is right now.

Apparently since it is less than 2% of the cap he thinks we can ignore it.

I am pointing out that if we waste that much money four times, we just lost one year of Adalius Thomas (and then some).

You can't practice careful salary cap management for your big name players, and then ignore it for everybody else.

 

[pats1]

pats1 says that $1.9M is irrelevant with the cap were it is right now.

Apparently since it is less than 2% of the cap he thinks we can ignore it.

I am pointing out that if we waste that much money four times, we just lost one year of Adalius Thomas (and then some).

You can't practice careful salary cap management for your big name players, and then ignore it for everybody else.

How are the Pats wasting that money?

(And if we waste Randall Gay twice, we get a year of Dan Koppen. And if we "waste" player X 17 times, we get a year of player Y...)

 

[Rob0729]

pats1 says that $1.9M is irrelevant with the cap were it is right now.

Apparently since it is less than 2% of the cap he thinks we can ignore it.

I am pointing out that if we waste that much money four times, we just lost one year of Adalius Thomas (and then some).

You can't practice careful salary cap management for your big name players, and then ignore it for everybody else.

Funny, the Pats have historically overpaid for role players and back ups. That means that even if Caldwell drops to #4, the Pats would be likely to pay him.

Tell me, where were you when everyone was bashing Josh McDaniels because he had all the pieces in place and he just couldn't execute? Now it is our leading WR last year isn't even worth what a back up could get on the open market today.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

i'm not offended.. just confused.

Are you all related to Reche or soemthing?

Reche's family are not circle jerks Keegs.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I found it amusing and unneccessary(sp).

It's just that there is a myriad of other words that he could have used instead.

Interestingly, he used it as an adjective, while you use it as a noun. Though both are acceptable, it's adjective use is generally more concise and well used, and actually doesn't have many other synonyms that could fit better. Not for nothing, I like the usage and thought it conveyed his point well in a way that "many receivers" would not have.

Ok, with that pedantic rant over, I like Reche and think he's going to have a good year. Gaffney was good for us, but I think this is one of those situations where expectations plays such a huge part of perception. We didn't expect as much from Gaffney; hence he's now a huge hero, while Reche disappointed.

At the end of the day, I think the thing that's made fans so far down on Reche is not just the drops, but how freaking crazy his eyes looked after them. That's the image that sticks. While the image of Gaffney that sticks is the one foot down touchdown. People seem to forget Gaffney's maddening desire to run backwards after catches and turn first downs into fourth downs. Belichick almost had to strangle him with his bare hands after one play like that in the AFCGC, yet he did it again later in the game. He converted, so all is forgiven I guess. I like both of these guys. I think Reche is going to work his tail off and turn out to make a big play in a big situation next year. Write it down.

 

[solman]

Anything to get solman's attention, because he has been ignoring blatant facts.

Caldwell to Childress is a drop of 59 catches worth of production in 2006.

I'm ignoring facts?

Apparently YOU are unaware that the number of catches that a receiver has is partly a function of HOW MANY TIMES THE BALL IS THROWN TO HIM!

Either you are deliberately ignoring this, or you are too stupid to realize that Childress's 2 catches are a direct result of the fact that HE ONLY PLAYED IN ONE GAME!

I'm not ignoring the 61 catches. I'm saying he got the 61 catches (more than double his previous career high) BECAUSE HE WAS TOM BRADY'S PRIMARY RECEIVER.