If the Patriots let Brady’s top target walk two seasons in a row…

[Brady6]

He was the #1 target for 1 year...not multiple years here

That's true about every player in the offseason after their first year as being the #1 target.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm guessing you're close to feeling like THIS guy......heh...me too....

Just reading the title pretty much got me there. Anyone who claims with a straight face that Edelman, and not Gronk, is Brady's top target should go back to writing their posts in crayon and having them proofread by an adult before posting.

Edelman is the Pats' top receiver right now to exactly the same extent that Cassel was their top quarterback in the post-2008 offseason. Which means that, on premise alone, this thread is the minitron of this one. Not nearly as asinine, but god damn is it trying to be.

 

[supafly]

I think that Edelman's targets were consistent with Welker's. Welker left Edelman stepped in and was actually targeted less than Welker. Brady is always going to target the primary receiver running the routes under 10 yards the most. I'm not sure why you do not see that and insist that Edelman was only targeted because of the lack of weapons. I can tell you that Edelman would not have had the highest catch ratio of any WR with 75+ targets in the NFL if he was being force targeted, he would have had a much lower ratio, because he would not have been open.

Welker was targeted just as many times in 2007 as Edelman this season, they were not on the same page then anymore than Edelman and he were this season.

I think the difference in the past was the better shape that our entire receiving options were in, vs 2013 where Edelman was the only guy who knew much of anything out there.

If they can keep Edelman while addressing the other weaknesses, then great. If they can't due to Edelman costing too much and not offering much in the outside receiving game, then it's understandable as to why they'd want to let him walk.

 

[Brady6]

Just reading the title pretty much got me there. Anyone who claims with a straight face that Edelman, and not Gronk, is Brady's top target should go back to writing their posts in crayon and having them proofread by an adult before posting.

Edelman is the Pats' top receiver right now to exactly the same extent that Cassel was their top quarterback in the post-2008 offseason.

You are so sure of yourself in your posts. That's good it's good to have confidence, I would simply suggest you check your facts before you present them with such bold and arrogant certainty. Many of your posts remind me of the show Wicked Tuna, when they hookup and dance around yelling "yeah buddy" like they're the best and then they snap the line or pull the hook and it just looks unfounded...

 

[OhExaulted1]

Just reading the title pretty much got me there. Anyone who claims with a straight face that Edelman, and not Gronk, is Brady's top target should go back to writing their posts in crayon and having them proofread by an adult before posting.

Edelman is the Pats' top receiver right now to exactly the same extent that Cassel was their top quarterback in the post-2008 offseason. Which means that, on premise alone, this thread is the minitron of this one. Not nearly as asinine, but god damn is it trying to be.

..........

 

[BradyFTW!]

You are so sure of yourself in your posts. That's good it's good to have confidence, I would simply suggest you check your facts before you present them with such bold and arrogant certainty. Many of your posts remind me of the show Wicked Tuna, when they hookup and dance around yelling "yeah buddy" like they're the best and then they snap the line or pull the hook and it just looks unfounded...

What facts, exactly, are you referring to? The fact that Gronk is Brady's top target? In other words, are you actually disputing that fact, or are you just rambling a bunch of ad hominem nonsense because that's the only alternative to admitting how stupidly wrong the entire premise of this thread is?

To me, arrogance is reguarly posting new threads that might as well be titled "BREAKING NEWS EVERYONE: I still believe the same exact things that I started another thread about three days ago". Nobody here cares about anyone's opinion that much, unless they play or coach for the Patriots.

 

[TomNGisele]

Brady should be GM and QB

 

[Ring 6]

Where were the camp fodders? You should look at the list again, there were mainly notable acquisitions.

Virtually your entire list.

Gronkowski is on the roster and he is a stud, he has had two serious injuries in a row but I have little concern about him in future. Hernandez is looking at 25 to life.

You included Hernandez in the analysis of listing all receiver acquisitions but left Gronk off, and then filled in with guys who barely had a chance to make the team.

I'm not disputing either of those happenings, but do you feel those decisions worked out?

Vereen is better than Woodhead. According to you Edelman replaced welker seemlessly.

Amendola was replaced by Edelman at halftime of the Broncos game and only saw time in three wide receiver sets or when Dobson, Thompkins, and Boyce were out with injury and unable to play the X-WR from that point in the season forward.

To answer your question, no I do not watch the games. I just post on this board more than just about anyone but I have zero interest in the Patriots and would never watch their games.

That explains a lot. You should try watching.

 

[patsfan-1982]

well... Vereen and gronk were his top targets when they were on the field so I am sure he would get over it

 

[Brady6]

What facts, exactly, are you referring to? The fact that Gronk is Brady's top target? In other words, are you actually disputing that fact, or are you just rambling a bunch of ad hominem nonsense because that's the only alternative to admitting how stupidly wrong the entire premise of this thread is?

To me, arrogance is reguarly posting new threads that might as well be titled "BREAKING NEWS EVERYONE: I still believe the same exact things that I started another thread about three days ago". Nobody here cares about anyone's opinion that much, unless they play or coach for the Patriots.

Here are a few just from this thread –

- You said this was an Amendola/Edelman thread, that is not true, this thread pertains to Welker and Edelman, and the impact of them being Brady’s top target in back to back years and potentially both leaving in UFA.
- You said that Gronkowski was Brady’s #1 target, which is not true; the top target on the Patriots has been Welker or Edelman every year since 2007. Gronkowski could be his top weapon but he is not his top target.
- You said they paid Welker $10+ million and they did not ever. They tagged him in 2012 and that was $9.515 million.
- You said they paid Randy Moss a top of the market deal, that is false in 2008 Moss signed a 3 year $27 million contract in 2008, that was significantly less than many receivers in the NFL and ranked #11 in APY for receivers.

The fact you uses words like “******ed” and “stupid” is extremely telling as well.

As far as my threads, you only feel this is redundant to others because you seem to lack the ability to read and comprehend, otherwise you would read my OP and been able to differentiate between the fact that CSNNE was discussing the impact of Brady’s top target leaving in back-to-back seasons and the repercussions of that. I thought it was an interesting topic; mainly because I do not live in a fantasyland where I believe Tom Brady is afraid of Belichick, and would never take issue with something that he did.

 

[Brady6]

That explains a lot. You should try watching.

I do not like football it is too violent, it scares me...:scared:

 

[Brady6]

I think the difference in the past was the better shape that our entire receiving options were in, vs 2013 where Edelman was the only guy who knew much of anything out there.



If they can keep Edelman while addressing the other weaknesses, then great. If they can't due to Edelman costing too much and not offering much in the outside receiving game, then it's understandable as to why they'd want to let him walk.

Why I don't necessarily agree with that is Edelman was playing his best football week 12 on. If he was benefiting from the lack of options on the football field his performance would have favored the early season games when Amendola, Gronkowski, and Vereen were all absent. Two of Edelman's four 100 yard games occurred with Gronkowski, Amendola, and Vereen all active and at their healthiest points in the season.

The disconnect between us is that you seem view Edelman's production as something forced, I view it as production that the offense relies on every year. Brady threw the second most times this season than any year in his career, yet a lower percentage of them were directed at Edelman than he ever direct at Welker.

What I am attempting to convey is that your belief that Edelman will have less opportunity in the future is not how I see it. Brady does not need to take targets from Edelman to have a more productive offense, there were more than enough targets going to other players, a high percentage than any season with Welker here in fact, what made the offense unproductive was the sub 50% completion percentage to WRs not named Edelman or Amendola. The other players do not need more opportunity, they need to make the plays.

In addition the yards per attempt was an issue because Edelman and Amendola both run routes that are 10 yards or less, this is the primary reason I am not a huge advocate of Edelman and Amendola being two of the top three WRs. I only see room for one of them running those routes and do not think they offer enough of a threat on routes 11+ yards up field.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, other positions are not relevant (other than perhaps getting a top TE who is a receiver).

Either Edelman can be signed for a price that the patriots are willing to pay or not. The team has Amendola in the slot, although they could cut him and put Edelman in the slot. That is the FIRST decision. Who is our slot receiver. If the answer is Amendola (for whatever reason), the the question is Edelman's value as a downfield receiver and returner (the positions he played last year). Unless Amendola is cut, Edelman's value as a slot receiver is almost irrelevant.

IMHO, the question will be how much Edelman is worth as a downfield receiver. There will be lots of mid-level alternatives that could be brought in to compete with Thompkins and Harrison.

ANOTHER QUESTION
If we have Gronk, Dobson, Vereen, and Amendola as targets, how valuable is Edelman?
IMHO, Edelman is gone unless he is willing to play for what is left of Amendola's contract (about $4M a year or so). Even then, the decision is not clear.

If they can keep Edelman while addressing the other weaknesses, then great. If they can't due to Edelman costing too much and not offering much in the outside receiving game, then it's understandable as to why they'd want to let him walk.

 

[Brady6]

Virtually your entire list.

Define camp fodder –

- Brandon Lloyd was a notable UFA signing who signed a 3-year $12M deal in 2012.
- Chad Johnson was a perennial all pro receiver that we traded for in 2011.
- Danny Amendola signed a 5-year $28.5M deal in 2013.
- Daniel Fells signed a 3-year $5.25M contract in 2012.
- Taylor Price was a third round selection in 2011.
- Brandon Tate was a third round selection in 2010.
- Greg Salas was a trade acquisition in 2012, the trade occurred in September (after camp fodder period).
- Jake Ballard a former starter was claimed off waivers, and then retained on injured reserve for an entire season.
- Jabar Gaffney signed a 2-year $2.3M contract in 2012.
- Donald Jones signed a 3-year $3.71M contract in 2013.
- Aaron Hernandez, well we all know that story.
- Vincent Shiancoe signed a 1-year $1.2M contract in 2012.

The rest could be camp fodders, but these players are not camp fodder. I am not sure where you even came up with that claim.

You included Hernandez in the analysis of listing all receiver acquisitions but left Gronk off, and then filled in with guys who barely had a chance to make the team.

No! I made a list of failed personnel decisions. Gronkowski does not fit those criteria. Maybe you should read the post again if you are confused.

Vereen is better than Woodhead. According to you Edelman replaced welker seemlessly.

Vereen is better than Woodhead, since when, Woodhead had more receptions and yards last season than Vereen has in his career. Vereen may be more talented than Woodhead but he is not better and if you actually believe, he is than it is you who should watch football and not me.

I appreciate you offering to speak for me but I will pass, I never said Edelman seamlessly replaced Welker. I said he took over as Brady’s #1 target.

That explains a lot. You should try watching.

What a dumb question to ask in a Patriots forum “do you watch the games”. That is like going to an AA meeting and asking if the people ever drank…

 

[Brady6]

IMHO, other positions are not relevant (other than perhaps getting a top TE who is a receiver).

Either Edelman can be signed for a price that the patriots are willing to pay or not. The team has Amendola in the slot, although they could cut him and put Edelman in the slot. That is the FIRST decision. Who is our slot receiver. If the answer is Amendola (for whatever reason), the the question is Edelman's value as a downfield receiver and returner (the positions he played last year). Unless Amendola is cut, Edelman's value as a slot receiver is almost irrelevant.

IMHO, the question will be how much Edelman is worth as a downfield receiver. There will be lots of mid-level alternatives that could be brought in to compete with Thompkins and Harrison.

ANOTHER QUESTION
If we have Gronk, Dobson, Vereen, and Amendola as targets, how valuable is Edelman?
IMHO, Edelman is gone unless he is willing to play for what is left of Amendola's contract (about $4M a year or so). Even then, the decision is not clear.

Amendola was targeted 12 times in the final 4 games despite playing 146 snaps during that period, what in this world could possibly make you believe that he would be considered the slot receiver and they would be looking to sign Edelman who had 20 catches all season on passes 11+ yards down field to be an outside receiver?

Am I the only one that noticed that Edelman replaced Amendola at halftime of the Broncos game due to a lack of production, and then noticed that after Amendola dropped the game winning touchdown in the Dolphins game in week 15 Brady only targeted 12 more times in the next 4 games?

Your opinion is that we will let Edelman walk and move forward with Amendola who was demoted in week 12 and then lost the trust of Brady in week 15. Not sure that is a good plan…

 

[crew1954]

If they don't sign Edleman and cut Amdendola is there a chance they can get Randy Moss back?

 

[supafly]

Who is our slot receiver. If the answer is Amendola (for whatever reason), the the question is Edelman's value as a downfield receiver and returner (the positions he played last year). Unless Amendola is cut, Edelman's value as a slot receiver is almost irrelevant.

IMHO, the question will be how much Edelman is worth as a downfield receiver. There will be lots of mid-level alternatives that could be brought in to compete with Thompkins and Harrison.

Amendola = 3/4 of his reps in the slot in 2013

Edelman = 50.5% of his reps on the outside in 2013

The more relevant question may be whether or not they wish to use the money from Edelman on more capable outside options.

 

[supafly]

The disconnect between us is that you seem view Edelman's production as something forced, I view it as production that the offense relies on every year. Brady threw the second most times this season than any year in his career, yet a lower percentage of them were directed at Edelman than he ever direct at Welker.

The disconnect between us is that you continue to claim that Julian Edelman is suddenly an irreplaceable security blanket from having one good season in 2013 when there were no other options to throw to.

How can you look at the stats and see Edelman with 105 receptions and the 2nd leading receiver with 50+ catches less and honestly claim that Brady wasn't obviously relying heavily on Julian Edelman?

 

[ATippett56]

Most of Amendola?s salary guaranteed if he?s on Pats Wednesday | ProFootballTalk

A recent report had the Patriots floating wide receiver Danny Amendola’s name to other teams as a trade possibility along with speculation that he could be released if he isn’t dealt.

If he is going to be released, the Patriots will be doing it on Tuesday. Ben Volin of the Boston Globe reports that the Patriots have until the end of Tuesday to make a decision about Amendola before $2 million of his $3 million base salary becomes guaranteed for the 2014 season.

 

[MassPats38]

Right or wrong, BB has been resistant to paying CBs and WRs top dollar. Moss was an anomaly to that pattern.

Relationship with Brady? If Brady didn't quit in protest after last season, when Welker and Woodhead left and he was left throwing to a group that had less experience than the dregs of 2006, then I suspect he is onboard with the team's plan. Edelman, here or gone, will change nothing in that regard. I genuinely believe Brady wants wins more than stats, so if he believes in that plan then I doubt he storms off because Edeleman walks.

Brady liked throwing to Gronk and Hernandez, and the team secured those players proactively. The fact that those contracts seem less appealing given injuries and drive-bys does not equate to a lack of efforts to secure targets. He now has rookies going into their second year, and there is no reason to believe Dobson will not play a much larger role this season. Paying Edelman more than the Pats would pay Welker last year because Edelman had one good year (Welker had many) would not be typical of the Patriot way.