If the Patriots let Brady’s top target walk two seasons in a row…

[supafly]

For all we know, Edelman may want too much money. Actually, there's probably a decent chance of it. It's possible that Belichick is covering all of the bases and/or considering an upgrade by spending the money in a different way.

Remember that Amendola was the one who saw most of his reps in the slot, not Edelman. Some keep saying that "it's Amendola vs a better outside receiver." Going by the 2013 rep counts, it seems to be "Edelman vs a better outside receiver," considering that Julian Edelman was the one who played the majority of his snaps on the outside.

I have no idea how it well play out, I'm just pointing out some possibilities that may be considered.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes and they gain significant cap space in 2015 and beyond. Thinking Belichick and Kraft plan the salary cap for just the current year is simplistic and unlikely.

Thinking they ignore the current year is worse.

 

[ausbacker]

Is it just me or do you start a lot of threads that seem to repeat prior discussion Brady6? Nevertheless, I trust the Patriots business model (even if I don't agree with all their personnel moves). Edelman has already surpassed what I thought his NFL ceiling would be in 2013. Projecting future performance will prove difficult for many of the reasons listed in this thread.

 

[Ring 6]

Your right I'm sure he is just ultra competitive, lives for the game, but never gives the personnel decisions by the team a thought at all.

You cannot be serious? Of course he critiques their decisions, and if he says something and they don't listen they're idiots. Why wouldn't they listen to Brady if he has an opinion? He is playing the damn game.

Brady himself says his job is to play QB not make roster decisions. I'll stick by his version of his attitude over your wild guess at his attitude.

 

[Bruins29]

Is it just me

Not just you

 

[Brady6]

Or how about, lets get you a better weapon.
You seem to ignore that one of the reason he had a down season is because Edelman was the go to guy.

Not to sound like negative but my confidence in them actually doing that is not super high right now. In the past 3-4 off seasons every move made has failed to workout –

- Chad Johnson
- Brandon Lloyd
- Donald Jones
- Greg Salas
- Danny Amendola
- Lavelle Hawkins
- Michael Jenkins
- Jabar Gaffney
- Anthony Gonzalez
- Daniel Fells
- Taylor Price
- Jake Ballard
- Visanthe Shiancoe
- Donte Stallworth
- Brandon Tate
- Aaron Hernandez (not related to on field production)
- Jamie Ebert

I know that many of these players were low risk high reward signings or draft picks but still it is a lot of really poor outcomes in a short period of time. Then you consider that during that time Welker and Woodhead left in UFA, Branch was not resigned due to his age and you have to see that the offense is in turmoil from a personnel perspective. To have all this happening with Brady on the wrong side of his mid-30s is not an example of strong planning.

The biggest problem with this team is the greatness of Brady disguises many blatant mistakes, over the past few years.

By putting better weapons on the field.
Edelman can be part of it, but if Julian Edelman is the leading receiver on this team in 2014, Brady will have had another one of his worse years.

Or, we should tell him that we arent going to force him to need to throw the ball to Julian Edelman 150 times.

Our slot receiver has been the leading receiver every year since 2007 and it consistently was targeted 150+ times over that period. Edelman receiving that many targets was not an anomaly; he actually received a lower percentage of Tom Brady’s attempts than Welker did in any of his seasons.

The suggestion that Edelman was being forced anything shows a lack of knowledge, Edelman received less targets than Welker did in 2011 or 2012 last season. Edelman also had the highest target to reception ratio of any WR in the NFL with more than 75 targets on the season.

I do agree that the offense should be altered to lean less on the slot receiver but that is a problem in the offensive philosophy and not the personnel.

You seem to be oblivious to the idea that if the offense got worse, when a new player emerged as the #1 target, that having to force him into that role is a big part of the problem.

The offense got worse when what? Brady’s best months of the season were November and December. The offense became significantly better when Edelman was inserted as the starting Y-WR at halftime of the Broncos game in week 12. Take a look at the Dolphins game in week 8 when Amendola returned and received the bulk of the targets in the slot over Edelman, Brady had a 69.5 QB rating and passed for 116 yards that game. Edelman made the offense better and saying otherwise is ridiculous to even suggest, come on, I get that you do not want to agree with me here but do not go rouge just to do so.

 

[Brady6]

Is it just me or do you start a lot of threads that seem to repeat prior discussion Brady6? Nevertheless, I trust the Patriots business model (even if I don't agree with all their personnel moves). Edelman has already surpassed what I thought his NFL ceiling would be in 2013. Projecting future performance will prove difficult for many of the reasons listed in this thread.

Does it matter AB? I mean if it is redundant for you, do not participate in the discussion, I am not holding a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to be part of it. I am not trying to sound disrespectful I just do not understand why I receive flack for trying to encourage discussion, I am not being disrespectful or causing problems, I am talking to you all because I actually value your opinions, yet that seems to upset many. In addition, for having such redundant threads they always seem to have a lot of participation.

I think Edelman’s ceiling was impossible to assess initially, he was a college QB who had to learn the position. He has more physical talent than Welker or Amendola, and he seems to be a bright guy so if he can learn the position which it appears he was able to do I would say his ceiling is potentially as high as Welker’s.

 

[Brady6]

Not just you

:violin:...

 

[Bruins29]

:violin:...

The truth hurts

 

[Brady6]

Brady himself says his job is to play QB not make roster decisions. I'll stick by his version of his attitude over your wild guess at his attitude.

Brady himself has an image, and PR team that instructs him the best things to say to preserve his brand. Brady does not ever swear or flip out during press conferences either, but when you catch him unfiltered on the field, he rages more than anyone else in the NFL. You cannot be as competitive as Brady is and not care about every damn thing that happens to do with the team, etc. He does not put the Patriots on blast in the public as a sign of respect, what he does behind closed doors is very, very different.

 

[Ring 6]

Not to sound like negative but my confidence in them actually doing that is not super high right now. In the past 3-4 off seasons every move made has failed to workout –

- Chad Johnson
- Brandon Lloyd
- Donald Jones
- Greg Salas
- Danny Amendola
- Lavelle Hawkins
- Michael Jenkins
- Jabar Gaffney
- Anthony Gonzalez
- Daniel Fells
- Taylor Price
- Jake Ballard
- Visanthe Shiancoe
- Donte Stallworth
- Brandon Tate
- Aaron Hernandez (not related to on field production)
- Jamie Ebert

I know that many of these players were low risk high reward signings or draft picks but still it is a lot of really poor outcomes in a short period of time.

There is no point in having a conversation if you want to list camp fodder as proof that trying to acquire a player is going to fail. This seems to me your mo, so ultimately there is no discussion worth having it seems.
Why do you include Hernandez but not Gronk?

Then you consider that during that time Welker and Woodhead left in UFA, Branch was not resigned due to his age and you have to see that the offense is in turmoil from a personnel perspective. To have all this happening with Brady on the wrong side of his mid-30s is not an example of strong planning.

Woodhead was allowed to leave because we had Vereen.
A replacement for Welker was brought in an he spent the entire season hobbled by an injury.

The biggest problem with this team is the greatness of Brady disguises many blatant mistakes, over the past few years.

Not surre I understand how that is a problem.

Our slot receiver has been the leading receiver every year since 2007 and it consistently was targeted 150+ times over that period. Edelman receiving that many targets was not an anomaly; he actually received a lower percentage of Tom Brady’s attempts than Welker did in any of his seasons.

Not true. Last year our slot receiver was Amendola.

The suggestion that Edelman was being forced anything shows a lack of knowledge, Edelman received less targets than Welker did in 2011 or 2012 last season. Edelman also had the highest target to reception ratio of any WR in the NFL with more than 75 targets on the season.

Your comment is laughable. Do you even watch the games?

I do agree that the offense should be altered to lean less on the slot receiver but that is a problem in the offensive philosophy and not the personnel.

It already was, because Welker was gone.

The offense got worse when what? Brady’s best months of the season were November and December. The offense became significantly better when Edelman was inserted as the starting Y-WR at halftime of the Broncos game in week 12. Take a look at the Dolphins game in week 8 when Amendola returned and received the bulk of the targets in the slot over Edelman, Brady had a 69.5 QB rating and passed for 116 yards that game. Edelman made the offense better and saying otherwise is ridiculous to even suggest, come on, I get that you do not want to agree with me here but do not go rouge just to do so.

OK, if you think the passing offense ended the season strong, good for you, I'll find someone else to talk with.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady himself has an image, and PR team that instructs him the best things to say to preserve his brand. Brady does not ever swear or flip out during press conferences either, but when you catch him unfiltered on the field, he rages more than anyone else in the NFL. You cannot be as competitive as Brady is and not care about every damn thing that happens to do with the team, etc. He does not put the Patriots on blast in the public as a sign of respect, what he does behind closed doors is very, very different.

Lets just make things up and pretend they are.
How would you have any idea at all about what Tom Brady thinks?
Not only what he thinks, but you are claiming to know that he is purposely not saying what he thinks and you know that, plus what he really means.
Come on, you have to have better ways to spend your posting time.

 

[Bruins29]

Brady does not ever swear or flip out during press conferences either,

Incorrect. He has done it.

 

[ausbacker]

Does it matter AB? I mean if it is redundant for you, do not participate in the discussion, I am not holding a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to be part of it. I am not trying to sound disrespectful I just do not understand why I receive flack for trying to encourage discussion, I am not being disrespectful or causing problems, I am talking to you all because I actually value your opinions, yet that seems to upset many. In addition, for having such redundant threads they always seem to have a lot of participation.

I'm not sure there is a need for you to start another thread about a topic that is being concurrently discussed in numerous other threads. It seems to be developing theme especially when no new or compelling points are being raised.

I think Edelman’s ceiling was impossible to assess initially, he was a college QB who had to learn the position. He has more physical talent than Welker or Amendola, and he seems to be a bright guy so if he can learn the position which it appears he was able to do I would say his ceiling is potentially as high as Welker’s.

Edelman isn't Welker. Welker is one of the greatest slot receivers the NFL has ever seen. I like Minitron but I'm not willing to say he can be as great as Welker given the other factors in play. Vernon Gholston would be a HoF candidate if we rated football performance through physical characteristics.

Slot WR always seems to be a position of production for the Patriots.

 

[Brady6]

If Giselle was pissed after the SB loss when Welker dropped the ball, I can't imagine how mad she was after last year, when 4 receivers were in the bottom 30% of the NFL in drops.

The WR position needs improved upon, so however Belichick decides to try and do it is fine with me.

Gisele did not become the richest model in the industry from being an idiot. She understands money and if her husband is being paid less than market value and his reasoning is to allow his team to field the most competitive team possible I have to believe that the failure to surround him with talent is discussion at the Brady dinner table from time to time.

I think that many have this feeling of Brady and other football players that they are not humans just like us. My wife and I talk about our work; if I am flying with a first officer who I think is incompetent, she will know all about it when I phone home. Do I stand up at the gate and yell to the boarding passengers that the co-pilot is a moron, no way, never but that does not mean I do not think it. Same rules apply for Brady, just because he does not stand up at the podium and say Bill has done a **** job putting WRs around me in recent years does not mean he is not thinking it and/or saying it to others in his circle.

 

[manxman2601]

Is it just me or do you start a lot of threads that seem to repeat prior discussion Brady6? Nevertheless, I trust the Patriots business model (even if I don't agree with all their personnel moves). Edelman has already surpassed what I thought his NFL ceiling would be in 2013. Projecting future performance will prove difficult for many of the reasons listed in this thread.

Does it matter AB? I mean if it is redundant for you, do not participate in the discussion, I am not holding a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to be part of it. I am not trying to sound disrespectful I just do not understand why I receive flack for trying to encourage discussion, I am not being disrespectful or causing problems, I am talking to you all because I actually value your opinions, yet that seems to upset many. In addition, for having such redundant threads they always seem to have a lot of participation.

I think Edelman’s ceiling was impossible to assess initially, he was a college QB who had to learn the position. He has more physical talent than Welker or Amendola, and he seems to be a bright guy so if he can learn the position which it appears he was able to do I would say his ceiling is potentially as high as Welker’s.

As much as I hate the constant repetition of Amendola/Edelman threads, to be fair to Brady6, he's right when he points out that they are very well subscribed so some people still want to debate the issue. I think his advice is right, if we don't like these threads then all we need to do is absent ourselves from them.

 

[ausbacker]

As much as I hate the constant repetition of Amendola/Edelman threads, to be fair to Brady6, he's right when he points out that they are very well subscribed so some people still want to debate the issue. I think his advice is right, if we don't like these threads then all we need to do is absent ourselves from them.

It's not just Amendola/Edelman threads manx. It's every Patriots topic thread being rinsed and repeated. It takes away from the enjoyment factor of reading through Patsfans when you're working under time constraints.

Discussion is brilliant. Let's not get that wrong.

 

[Brady6]

I'm not sure there is a need for you to start another thread about a topic that is being concurrently discussed in numerous other threads. It seems to be developing theme especially when no new or compelling points are being raised.

Where have I discussed the impact on Brady’s top target leaving through UFA in back-to-back years been discussed before? I cannot control that others come in and attempt to shift any conversation that pertains to Edelman into an Edelman Amendola debate that is not my intent. The fact is Edelman and Talib are the two biggest UFAs on this team, Edelman and Brady are extremely close, Edelman is basically Brady’s little brother right down to how he styles his hair (Edelman even grew his hair out back when Brady did). To discuss what type of reaction Brady would have to Edelman leaving is worthwhile in my opinion. We could go back to discussing Belichick’s Valentine’s Day card, or the fact there is a gay man who plays football in the year 2014….

Edelman isn't Welker. Welker is one of the greatest slot receivers the NFL has ever seen. I like Minitron but I'm not willing to say he can be as great as Welker given the other factors in play.

Slot WR always seems to be a position of production for the Patriots.

Welker was not Welker until 2007 either, he was given the opportunity to be the #1 Y-WR in the Patriots’ offense, and onward and upward, he went. Edelman was given the opportunity to be the #1 Y-WR in the Patriots’ offense last season and onward and upward, he went. Welker was 27 years old when he had his first 100 catch, 1000 yard season; Edelman is 27 years old and just had his first 100 catch, 1000 yard season.

Your conclusiveness is extremely premature here AB.

 

[ausbacker]

Where have I discussed the impact on Brady’s top target leaving through UFA in back-to-back years been discussed before? I cannot control that others come in and attempt to shift any conversation that pertains to Edelman into an Edelman Amendola debate that is not my intent. The fact is Edelman and Talib are the two biggest UFAs on this team, Edelman and Brady are extremely close, Edelman is basically Brady’s little brother right down to how he styles his hair (Edelman even grew his hair out back when Brady did). To discuss what type of reaction Brady would have to Edelman leaving is worthwhile in my opinion. We could go back to discussing Belichick’s Valentine’s Day card, or the fact there is a gay man who plays football in the year 2014….

Welker was not Welker until 2007 either, he was given the opportunity to be the #1 Y-WR in the Patriots’ offense, and onward and upward, he went. Edelman was given the opportunity to be the #1 Y-WR in the Patriots’ offense last season and onward and upward, he went. Welker was 27 years old when he had his first 100 catch, 1000 yard season; Edelman is 27 years old and just had his first 100 catch, 1000 yard season.

Your conclusiveness is extremely premature here AB.

At this point, it's much simpler for me to simply ignore your threads Brady6. Clearly, the message has not resonated that you're clogging the board with comments that others have discussed ad nauseam.

 

[Bruins29]

At this point, it's much simpler for me to simply ignore your threads Brady6. Clearly, the message has not resonated that you're clogging the board with comments that others have discussed ad nauseam.

It is not easy to get 6000 posts in a year. You really have to be creative.