Idle thoughts...Setting the record straight

[patfanken]

I think I finally snapped with the "what the heck is going on thread". We are over 5 months away from the start of the season and "some" people are having kiniption fits over PERCEPTION...not reality.

FACT - our defense last season WAS NOT horrible. In fact it was very decent. It ranked FIFTH in scoring (the most important defensive stat) and 11th over all.

The perception that the defense is horrible comes from the fact due to all the Polian rules changes...pretty much ALL defenses have been rendered "horrible". We just have to look at the 30+ points second half the Colts threw up on the #1 defense in the league in the AFCCG.

So when we see our team give up a 3rd and long first down and decry its futility, we have to understand that THIS IS NOW THE NORM in the pass happy NFL. And despite our perception, our defense last season was pretty good.....RELATIVE to the rest of the sorry defenses in league.

MYTH - The Jets signing Antonio Cromartie makes their secondary the best in the league, with TWO shut down CBs.

FACT - has anyone bothered to check out Cromartie's performance the last TWO season, or are you still watching UTube highlights from 2007. Last season these were his sorry stats. 30 tackles, O sacks, 3 picks, O fumble recoveries, O forced fumbles, and this is the stunner. ... NINE whole passes defended, or roughly THREE times fewer than what Lee Boddin put up for our sorry assed Defense His results for the season before where hardly better.

Given the nature of the league right now WHY would any team literally give up a quality CB, especially to the team that knocked it out of the playoffs. The fact is that they wouldn't....and they didn't. So stop worrying about Antonio Cromartie and his 9 passes defended. I don't doubt that the Jets will present a formidable defensive challenge this season, but it won't be because
Antonio Cromartie is playing opposite a REAL shut down CB in Derelle Revis.

Myth - the Signing of Karlos Dansby drastically improves the Miami defense.

FACT- HOW??? I ask. Granted Dansby is a fine LB, who adds speed to the ILB corp of the Fins, but his has NEVER been an impact player. He has NEVER had more than 5 sacks a season. He makes a lot of tackles, but who is going to replace the big play potential of Porter and Taylor. NOT Karlos Dansby

MYTH- According to the media, this team has more holes in its roster than ever before.

FACT- REALLY?????? Lets check it out, even before the draft where we have 4 picks in the first 53 in the deepest draft in recent memory.

OL - This is very good OL - Talented and DEEP... they brought the entire band back. I challenge anyone to find a hole, with Koppen who is decent, the only guy you are likely to want to upgrade...down the road

QB- All set there

RB - Well here you might get into an arguement, but with Maroney Taylor, Morris, and Faulk (assumption) The Pats may be old at the position, but they have enough TALENT there to have a good running attack....especially in an offense that isn't geared to run first.

TE- Much has been made of the fact that we don't have ANY TE's on the roster, but who cares in March. We don't use them in the passing game anyway. Besides, we are about to sign a blocking TE who caught over 30 balls, and Alge Crumpler's name has been thrown around along with Olsen of Chicago. I'm confident that by camp the Pats will have 3 TEs under contract that will satisfy the masses and more importantly, the coaching staff.

WR - Now this is really where there are holes in the roster. However it is also the position that is the EASIEST to fill. There are simply MORE people on the planet who have WR skills than say QB or DL. We made it to the AFCCG with Jabar, Reche, and a fading Troy Brown. I think we will be fine with Moss, Welker, Edelman, and whomever else we sign/draft to fill in. BTW- Brandon Tate was supposed to be a first round talent before he got hurt. How come no one in the media mentions him when talking about WRs.

So at this position I agree it is something to watch over the next coming months, but its NOT something to go nuts over

DL - Jarvis Green and his 3 sacks over the last 2 years is gone. I'm thrilled he got another pay day. He deserved it. However he had already been surpassed by Mike White, and the promising Myron Pryor is coming back, along with the "unpromising" Ron Brace, who will hopefully benefit from a full off season in the strength progam. However this is an area where I wouldn't be surprised if one of the "big 4 draft picks" is used for a DLman.

ILB - Surpisingly, I think we are pretty much set here with Mayo, Guyton, and McKenzie, along with the other usual suspects, FAs, and draft picks. ILB isn't a 3 down position anymore, so its not like we need much more than what we have.

OLB - The other position of concern - Here's what I don't understand. We act like we are the ONLY team in the league that needs to improve our pass rush. Do people know that we actually had MORE sacks than the Jets last season. EVERY team needs to improve their pass rush. Its the nature of the game now.

Also I'd suggest as required reading, Andy Johnson's post on TBC and his production. Tully doesn't have the "name", yet per this post, his production and efficiency ranked with the best in the league. It also was enlightening is pointing out how effective teams are in pass blocking since even the BEST guys in the league were averaging only ONE effective pass rush (sack, pressure, hit or blk) every 10 throws. Kind of makes you wonder about the competitive fairness of the current game.

So while I do expect the Pats to resign Burgess, I also expect them to address the pass rush issue in the first 2 rounds as well. There seems to be a very good crop of "Tweeners" his year. If we don't know all their names today, we certainly will over the next 6 weeks.

DBs - With the resigning of Boddin our DBs are settling in as becoming a strength of the defense. we are set at S with Merriweather, Chung, McGowan, and Sanders. We are getting better at CB with Wheatly coming back, and Butler and Wilhite with another year of experience. I also expect to see a DB among those picked in the top 4. I'm hoping we resign Springs, because we need another "big" CB for GL situations. Maybe that's the thought for the draft.

So in conclusion. Are we a finished team yet, OF COURSE NOT. However the sturm and drang wringing of the hands BS I've seen on this board is ridiculous, almost to be the point of being embarrassing.

I'm not being a homer when I contend that this is solid team, with a core that is capable of winning it all, just like about a dozen other teams in the league. Luck, injuries, good or bad calls, and the vagaries of dealing with an oblong spheroid will determine exactly WHO lifts the Lombardi in February, but as fans, all we can ask is that we be in the mix...and believe me Pats fans....we ARE in the mix...as of March 10th....as we will be come January

 

[PatsChamp88]

I think I finally snapped with the "what the heck is going on thread". We are over 5 months away from the start of the season and "some" people are having kiniption fits over PERCEPTION...not reality.

Don't take those threads personally, I just find them funny

 

[PatsBoy12]

I have to agree with the OP. It's gotten to the point where I don't even really come on the board anymore, and I just end up going to ESPN Boston or some other site for news. Every move the Patriots make or don't make is wrong. They can't win when it comes to so many on the board.

 

[ausbacker]

As expected patfanken, a balanced and objective position illustrating exactly where the Patriots stand.

Well done.

 

[vyrago]

Stop making sense Ken; you'll rile the malcontents which will lead to a 40 page thread explaining why you are wrong and why WE ARE DOOMED!

 

[Rob0729]

I agree about Cromartie. Look at the guy's career and he had a nine game stretch where he was great (although that stretch is overrated) and 3 1/2 years of mediocre play.

People also dismiss the loss of Thomas Jones (got over 1,400 yards) on a team where they are 2-8 when their "franchise" QB passes for 20 times or more. The is a better than decent chance they lose Leon Washington. That would leave Shonn Greene as their lone RB. Greene played very well in the playoffs, but was up and down during the season and has yet to prove he can carry the rock 25 times a game for an entire season. The loss of Jones and possibly Washington might be a far worse loss than the gain of Cromartie.

Also, the Dolphins gained Dansby but lost their two starting OLBs and their NT is suspended for the firat eight games. They just lost out on Ryan Clark and dumped Gabril Wilson to get him. They were mediocre down the stretch and they have a lot holes. Dansby is anice piece, but for every hole people complain on this board for the Pats to have the Dolphins may have two.

 

[signbabybrady]

it is 8:18 in the morning, my alarm clock just went off and yet I am standing on my bed applauding.

Nice post couldnt have said it better my self.

 

[Big Bucks]

People have got to realise we are one year in on a three year rebuild.

I agree with the OP except...

nah Guyton I'm not sold on

and the WR problem... I'm in the bring Marshall in camp

People got to look at the injury situation from last year and think WOW how did we still win the Division

Welker missed 4 games with a bum knee, Moss seperated his shoulder and wasn't really the same after that, Tate.. Endelman both had injuries, Brady was hurt too, we lost RB depth with at least Maroney filling in IMO admirably putting up his best numbers.... and thats just the offence, don't get me started on the defence, well how much did Mayo miss for starters!

 

[patsox23]

This is a rosier projection than I'm ready to offer, but a good read and some interesting insights. I would warn against blaming all of the last two years on Cromartie's alleged inefficiency at corner. The Chargers pass-rush has been non-existent in that time - or, at least, far less formidable. That likely played a role in his diminishing stat-sheet.

 

[spacecrime]

I think I finally snapped with the "what the heck is going on thread". We are over 5 months away from the start of the season and "some" people are having kiniption fits over PERCEPTION...not reality.

"Some" people are easier to take when you realize that they are not here to talk Patriots football; they are here to show Patriots fans the errors of their ways. That is why guys like Tanked blasted the Pats for not signing Bodden, and then when he was signed, cherry-picked stats to show that Bodden was not that good. For a long time I thought they just didn't understand football, but the idiotic insistence that re-signing your own free agents doesn't help a team after years of deriding the Pats because the Colts stay competitive by re-signing their own free agents, and the frantic yelping that the only way to have a good team is to emulate Daniel Snyder and spend big in the first days of free agency finally showed me it wasn't a lack of football knowledge, it was simply an agenda that whatever the Pats do is wrong.

I'm not being a homer when

But you are according to "some" people, who call fans "homers' in an attempt to discredit any support of the team. They call themselves "objective" to try to give their naysaying validity.

It is indeed very tiresome, but it is the nature of the internet that some people just like to do stuff like this.

 

[spacecrime]

I have to agree with the OP. It's gotten to the point where I don't even really come on the board anymore, and I just end up going to ESPN Boston or some other site for news. Every move the Patriots make or don't make is wrong. They can't win when it comes to so many on the board.

The ignore feature helps a lot, but that doesn't make up for the loss of many threads that would have provided an interesting discussion but got side-tracked with Pats-suck and BB-is-a-dope commments.

If all you want is the latest news, I agree: ESPN Boston has become a very fine site. I go there often because I want them to get a lot of hits so ESPN doesn't pull the plug.

 

[JR4]

Good observations.

one thing
"I'm hoping we resign Springs..."

I thought PATs signed him to a multi year deal last year?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Good post as always.

I agree about the defense. They get a very bad rap around here because they aren't what we had in '03/'04 but for a defense that was completely rebuilt I can't be mad at their performance last year. Not saying they don't need some work but last year was overall encouraging.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Good observations.

one thing
"I'm hoping we resign Springs..."

I thought PATs signed him to a multi year deal last year?

Yes, Springs has one more year left on the deal unless he's moved

 

[Reckedtrek]

Great post OP and thank you for bringing a shred of reason to the panic bowl. Aside from football, I think it's a battle between the sports of "throwing in the towel" and "Sticking a fork in it" as the most favorite past time at patsfans. A lot of people (not just here, but there are plenty here) that are like weathermen when it comes to sports. They predict bad weather constantly- and sooner or later we get hit with a storm and they go crazy about how they warned us about it.

I've read numerous posts here at PF and also many people in the media that say the Pats HAVE to get younger. So The Pats begin to the process of getting younger and many of the same people freak and wonder what they're doing?! Maybe I think they should have made it a more gradual transition and started 1-2 years earlier- but I think maybe BB and the Pats organization has looked into this a little more than I have. While I know they make mistakes (as does everyone) I can only assume and feel safe in doing so- that they have a plan that is in the best interest of the team- and they are carrying out that plan.

No way we can make it to the superbowl?
The Saints record in 2007 was 7-9. In 2008 it was 8-8. Then last year it was 13-3 and they win it all. We went 10-6 last year yet we have no chance this coming season. Do I think we are going to the Superbowl this year? I don't know for sure, but I'm not going to be a damned drama queen/chicken little and say there's no way we can get there.
The team is in a rebuild mode- and went 10-6 last season (easily could have been 11-5 ifthe last game meant enough). Many teams go 4-12 or worse- but we're doomed?!

 

[condon84]

The ignore feature helps a lot, but that doesn't make up for the loss of many threads that would have provided an interesting discussion but got side-tracked with Pats-suck and BB-is-a-dope commments.

If all you want is the latest news, I agree: ESPN Boston has become a very fine site. I go there often because I want them to get a lot of hits so ESPN doesn't pull the plug.

Do people really use the "ignore" function here?

 

[ALP]

Yes, Springs has one more year left on the deal unless he's moved

Ok guys, I liked the OP and further remarks about springs, but if not sure about a contract check it out

if memory serves springs was signed to a 3 yr deal and thereby has 2 years left on his current deal, which gives us wheatly, wilhite, bodden butler and springs, a Corp I have no qualms with,

if anything well draft a rookie cb and replace the worsst of the ones currently on the roster

 

[BradyManny]

So in conclusion. Are we a finished team yet, OF COURSE NOT. However the sturm and drang wringing of the hands BS I've seen on this board is ridiculous, almost to be the point of being embarrassing.

I'm not being a homer when I contend that this is solid team, with a core that is capable of winning it all, just like about a dozen other teams in the league. Luck, injuries, good or bad calls, and the vagaries of dealing with an oblong spheroid will determine exactly WHO lifts the Lombardi in February, but as fans, all we can ask is that we be in the mix...and believe me Pats fans....we ARE in the mix...as of March 10th....as we will be come January

I appreciate the optimism, and agree with big chunks of this post - but I would say that the defense still has me a little worried if we only add via the draft. The traditional defensive/offensive stats are misleading - we played in a division filled with really poor offenses and really good defenses (with exceptional pass defenses, in particular). Football Outsiders had our defense at 16th, I believe, which is right in the middle of the pack. I feel that is an accurate representation of their play last year, and generally their ability.

The loss of Seymour was huge, and needs to be filled this year - both with a stopgap (like Marques Douglas) and long term (like Jared Odrick). Tully is a nice player, but he gets most of his sacks on motor, we need to find more of a pass rush not on just the edge, but the interior (that's where Seymour was handy). As for having more sacks than the Jesters, again, I think that's a misleading stat - just as it was in 2007 when we were 2nd in the NFL in sacks but couldn't do it when it counted. For instance, many of Burgess sacks were garbage time, even TBC had a few of those. I don't think we have a true impact pass rusher on either the inside or the outside now that we let Seymour go. If we had one really impact pass rusher (maybe via the draft), then all those guys who are pretty good at applying pressure - TBC, Wright, Pryor, Burgess if we re-sign - suddenly become a lot more dangerous, and the whole defense gets a lot stronger.

I will say that I think we do get stronger in two ways - one, the rookies from last year's class will get better and two, simply similarity with the system and keeping our own guys is a huge boost that we haven't had a lot of in recent years with guys typically leaving for more money after success. I think that'll be an underrated aspect going forward. Continuity is very underrated.

 

[Don_the_patfan]

MYTH- According to the media, this team has more holes in its roster than ever before.

FACT- REALLY?????? Lets check it out, even before the draft where we have 4 picks in the first 53 in the deepest draft in recent memory.

While I agree that there is a lot of concern maybe more then is needed one cannot deny that there are holes on this team that need to be filled. I think the frustration with most fans is that we have quite a few holes at STARTING POSITIONS and thus the alarm with some fans.The draft in itself while great does NOT guarantee that:

#1- All of those 4 picks will be used especially with this team.
#2- That players picked will be all good players. Very unlikely.

There is no way you hit on all 4. It's the nature of the business and the unknown. Would any of us pick Brace where he was last year based on his 1st year production?

OLB - The other position of concern

Agreed a definate hole.

WR - Now this is really where there are holes in the roster.

Agreed with more then one here.

TE- Much has been made of the fact that we don't have ANY TE's on the roster, but who cares in March.

Whether we care or not that is considered a hole since you have no one worth putting on that field as it stand.

RB - Well here you might get into an argument

A young RB needs to be drafted as we have no one on the roster that is the
future RB of this team. Can you continue to go with what you have yes is that an improvement over last season NO.

DL - Jarvis Green and his 3 sacks over the last 2 years is gone.

He was a backup put in a starters role. Mike Wright is not a starter, Pryor and Brace who knows but at this point backups. A starter at DE is needed.

So we have: OLB,WR,DE,RB,TE. The premise that we have holes stand true. Whether one may not like the way certain fans are screaming at the top of their lungs that in the end is an individual preference.

With all of that said very good post as always patsfanken.

P.S. By the way I love how the pats have signed their own players and am looking for more

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Do people really use the "ignore" function here?

its hard to tell......they say they put you on ignore, but a year later they are still talking about you