Idle Thoughts - Day 1

[Uncle Rico]

...

2. Could it be that BB didn't think any of them were better than Ron Brace, or Pryor, or Deadrick, at least not THAT much better, enough to make them a first round pick?...

This is a big part of the puzzle. With the draft, you have all these shiny new guys with months of hype and links to their highlight videos and it's easy to get excited. I have to think BB & Co. aren't swayed by shiny and new so much as game film, scouting reports and clear, cold evaluation of how prospects compare to current players.

 

[patfanken]

I felt/feel a lot like you Ken, i'll only add that while i thought we needed help on the Oline, its much easier to develop an O-lineman than it is a D-lineman. That the team was in a unique position last night, the pats were within just just a few drafts spots from having some great D-line prospects. I don't think it would have cost that much to move up three or four places. Even though i think the teams greatest need is a pass rusher i would have been happy taking the Prince also. I hope we can address the pass rushing situation today or in free agencey, although the FA pass rushers braught in haven't panned out as well as we have hoped.

I feel you, reflex, but who knows how BB viewed those prospect. They might have looked great to us, but not worth the slot to them. Also maybe BB tried to trade up but couldn't find a trade partner. We will never know.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Awesome post. I was having the same thoughts as you last night.

O.K., two huge and talented bookend tackles for the next 10 years may end up making us all happy.

However, the fact that arguably the best 3-4 Five Technique DE fell to us, along with arguably the best RB later in round one, and the Pats didn't take them is somehow a larger bummer.

Dozens on here have said it, many times, but shouldn't BB Finally cash in his chips and draft in the thick of the talent? We'll read write-up after write-up about how "again, nobody worked the draft like Belichick", referring to picking up the extra one. So what? He had an extra one this year, and predictably traded it for value.

Value every year. Keep the value. I want a Super Bowl before Brady retires.

So what Round 1 would have made the team better this year? A converted TE to OT, that may not be ready yet, or the best DE and RB in the entire draft, upgrading two huge need areas?

I understand. Having an extra second round pick or two every single year is such a bummer when you could instead have one extra first round pick in one year.

OK, I get it. Emotionally it can be frustrating. But logically, trading picks and getting the premium is clearly the best course of action.

 

[TruthSeeker]

OK, Let me get this straight. We swap a six time Pro Bowl DE with superb pass rush and run stuff ability, for a project left side offensive tackle?

Since you're trying to get this straight, I'll help you out.

No, that's not what we did. We swapped the 2009 playing year of a six-time Pro Bowl DE for a top OT prospect. Calling him a project is misleading as is willfully neglecting that Seymour would only be here during the 2009 season.

There, do you feel better now? I didn't think so.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Damn my lying eyes but anyone who has been reading me in the draft forum should have come across my aversion to Cam Jordan at least once. He's no Tyson Alualu, as far as I'm concerned NO overdrafted him. Wes Bunting, Mel Kiper, Rob Rang, they hyped the kid based on his underwhelming performance against substandard competition and he could do no wrong in any game since. He should look like Tarzan against a redshirt FR RT - big whoop. Good luck NO, if he plays for you like he did against Nevada - NE will be one step closer to a mid-round pick next season.

 

[patsox23]

random thoughts...

Mark Ingram is not the best RB in this draft and he (reportedly) has knee issues. Not elite, certainly not any better than Leshore, Daniel Thomas, Ryan Williams.

Clearly we didn't WANT Cameron Jordan and, once again, off-season-long mocks were continually wrong about that.

I wanted Robert Quinn or Kerrigan BAD. Bummed about that. I'd like to believe we didn't think it was worth trading up the TINY bit it would've taken, but I don't know. I suspect we tried and failed, which likely means we weren't aggressive enough early enough. But who knows. Still...bummed. This D is TERRIBLE on 3rd down.

Counting on a jump from some players is fine. But Rob Ninkovich ain't the second coming of Vrabel. We'll see about Cunningham.

HATE the Jets getting Wilkerson -- could be a steal.

The Giants liking Solder makes me feel better.

I really want to get that pass-rusher in the 2nd round --Houston, Sheard, Reed -- but I also REALLY want to deal that 33rd overall for a 1st next year and a late second this year. Tough combo.

Looking forward to getting more picks next year when we deal Meriweather to the Eagles for a 3rd/4th, as soon as the league starts up officially, post-draft.

 

[Joker]

Here is my issue Cousins,
I feel exactly like Cousin Ken. We had the opportunity to pull the trigger and yet again we go for quantity, not qualityHuh?Solder isn't a top OL prospect???That's plain nutty. And Yes, with one good Draft in the last five years and all this trading around that has netted more trading around, I and many other Cousins in this forum could have done as well if not better without millions of dollar of scoutsthat's pure bull. Poke fun if you like but then you would be wrong then, wouldn't you.the Pats went 14-2 after this horrible five year stretch you harp on...I get it, you want them to go 7-9 as long as they draft every binky you have on your draft board

One solid Draft and BB is the Jim Jones of the NFL Draft. Cousins his last five years have been mediocre at best but for last year. I am sorry to all you died in the wool "Bill knows best...ers". Don't give me a "you should be GM then stuff". It's a crap shoot and he will admit it. He has more resources but for every good Pats pick I will show you two who might have been better. Well if the "Bills Used Cars" could not pull off a better day than yesterday, I stand by my statement that he is a mediocre Drafter. this paragraph is about as crack addled as I've ever read on this board

Was Solder O.K. probably. Is he telling stories when he says Solder was a "best on the board pick"? Maybe bored pick for Bill.It was a tossup between Solder and the BC OL'er. BB liked Solder. YOU think you are better and can come up with two OL'ers who are better picks. OK, genius, who are they?

OK, Let me get this straight. We swap a six time Pro Bowl DE with superb pass rush and run stuff ability, for a project left side offensive tackle? There is a little old man from the Bronx laughing his ass off in Oakland.so, YOU can divine the future?What you are saying is Solder is a bust. That's pretty rich coming from an obviously ADD riddled histrionic.Enlighten us with you're overwhelmingly astute stock tips so we can all get rich Oh yes...and we have the opportunity to move up now this is pure garbage. WHAT EXACT OPPORTUNITY WOULD THAT BE???Sources??Proof?Anything but the little voices in your head??but we want to keep our ammunition so we have more picks to swap into next year so that we can generate more swaps to get into the years after etc, etc, etc. Who wants to make book with me right now that the Pats will swap one of the two first next year to the year after????You want Dan Snyder running the Pats.

So the M.O. is gain a top pick to swap that top pick into another top pick the following year and so forth and so on? Yet the sheep both on this forum and the media throw flowers at his feet......... Ain't love grand?OK...who do YOU propose the Patriots hire as head coach...you obviously hate Belichick...enlighten us, Whinestein...

Solder better become an All Pro quickly!or what, YOU'LL go on ESPN radio and tell the world about YOUR terrific, proven draft strategies

Now the #28 pick which made people like Curran and Reiss giddy when we swapped it for a first round 2012 pick that we will never keep.....perfect!you are FORGETTING the 2nd round pick this year we also acquired..pesky little detail, ain't it?

Now we have one shot to get a pass rusher at #33 because Lord knows there are the Bengals, Browns, Cardinals, Titans and Bears looking for a pass rusher behind us.YOU just posted YOU can come up with TWO picks at every turn that are better than any BB will make...NOW there's "NO ONE LEFT!!!!!"...Borderline Personality Disorder...look it up

I only hope that the phones in Foxborough fail this evening so no one can call Bill so he can get another hit of "Oxytradeocaine".
Bill:
Brooks Reed
Jabal Sheard (meh!)
I's even settle for two that I never would want, Ayers or Houston (same herbius weedius dealer as Tate from what I hear).
Greg Romeus a little later as a consultation price might work.

But unless you are B.S. ing us when you say you go by the board, One time guaranteed first round pick Bowers and his 15 sacks is sitting there staring at you. Yes he has injury issues (see Gronk, Tate) and you have taken people with issues (Hernandez, Tate...again..what the...), Would not 15 sacks give Bowers a little credibility for the pick at #33 as some place on your board to help ones pass rush? Or is this "best on board" stuff crapola? Or......does the Trade devil get the best of you once again? Just think...three first rounders to trade out of in 2012! It might be too much for one man to take! Bowers has also been staring the other 31 teams "in the face", as you say...doesn't that raise a red flag in your eyes? Or are YOU his M.D. specialist? You can't be seriously suggesting the Patriots use the 1st pick in the 2nd round(practically a low 1st) for a player that may never make it more than a season on a football field...or maybe YOU can ,if this post is serious

I do think BB has a plan. Most posters hate this because "You build through the Draft".....yes if we did pick once in a while for quality not quantity that has cred, but seriously I think he has Sidney Rice and perhaps Manny Lawson who can rush, cover and is only 26 or Matt Roth are in his sites.Matt Roth????..stop!!my ribs are killing me!!

In retrospect this was a crappy Draft year. Top end studs, third round type QBs taken in the first round, too short OLB/DE options and many players with warts that were all exploited by way too much time with no Free Agency or other football this spring, was the result. I predict a busy Free Agency by the Pats because we are not "Building" so far.They picked an OL projected as their LT of the future..."not building!!!!"..what do you call it then..."tearing it down!!!"? It's a good thing TB said he'd like to play till he is 40. We have seven more years of trade outs we can do.
DW Toys

If I was a crack addict, I'd beg you for your connection...

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I and many other Cousins in this forum could have done as well if not better without millions of dollar of scouts. Poke fun if you like but then you would be wrong then, wouldn't you.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

 

[borg]

It still doesn't obviate the need to improve the pass rush, Borg. And its not about getting to the playoffs here. Its about getting deep in the playoffs to THE game. That's not going to likely happen without getting much better on defense.

That being said, who knows what today will bring and more importantly FA. Plus we don't know if Cunningham and Ninko will dramatically improve after their first full year of play, and what the additions of Ty Warren, Boddin, and Stroud make.

Think about how everyone's attitude would change if Manny Lawson or Mathias Kiwanuka come to Foxboro. More likely it will be a couple of guys we've never heard of, but still one of them MIGHT be the next Mike Vrabel. The problem is we don't know, and won't know until we see what they put out on the field.

The Pats have made 1 pick, don't give up hope. The LT pick was a given....in hindsight .... only two LTs on the roster before yesterday with one rumored to get the axe. If history repeats itself, the heartless BB will let Light move on and once again, Father Time will eventually take his toll on an ex-Patriot...but on another roster....Light's departure may reap a nice compensatoryl pick. Do you feel that any of the picks taken from 28-32 were the answer to the Pats ass rush woes?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

You can always count on at least one belly level one here on draft days...

 

[townes]

The first wasn't what I wanted but we have to wait for the second and 3rd to wrap up to have any real sense of how well the Patriots handled it. It could well be another one of those drafts they don't like and move out of repeatedly, or it may be that they see the real value in this draft in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and geared up to maximize their picks in that area. They can still address their needs and get impact players in the next forty picks and it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out when the night is done.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Don't forget, that this entire forum appeared to be 'incensed' after the first day of the 2010 draft as well when McCourty was the sole pick in round 1. After round 2 was finished, the light's clicked on and the overall 'draft picture' and 'vision' of what BB was trying to accomplish became much clearer. Not to mention that the Pats drafted extremely well in 2010 overall, netting perhaps the Pats best draft class yet. Hang on folks, the best is yet to come!

 

[patsox23]

Excellent point about last year, particularly the curtain rising in round two. Looking forward to what I hope will be a recurring bonanza starting tonight.

 

[Synovia]

It still doesn't obviate the need to improve the pass rush, Borg. And its not about getting to the playoffs here. Its about getting deep in the playoffs to THE game. That's not going to likely happen without getting much better on defense..

Again, you're making two HUGE assumptions.

1)Jordan/whoever, actually would improve the pass rush.

2) Cunningham/Ninkovich/whoever have completely maxed out their ability.


And how the hell is OL not a position of need? Going into the draft we had one lineman who we can count on being around past this year (Vollmer). Neal is done. Light is gone at the end of the year. Mankins is gone at the end of the year (they can't franchise him again without him going to ~17M a year). Connoly is a career backup.


I'd argue OL is a bigger need than DL.

 

[patriot lifer]

I'd argue OL is a bigger need than DL.

:agree:

10 characters

 

[reflexblue]

I'd argue OL is a bigger need than DL.

And I'd argue that except for a handful of games the O-line was pretty good last year, they pats were #1 in offense last year. On the other hand the Dline was getting run over most of the time and Wilfork had to play out of position.

 

[Synovia]

And I'd argue that except for a handful of games the O-line was pretty good last year, they pats were #1 in offense last year.

It doesn't matter how good they were last year if none of them are under contract.

Volmer is our only lineman with a contract that goes past the end of this year.

The DLine with Wilfork, (Ty) Warren, and all the youngins is in a whole lot better shape.

 

[smg93]

Here is my issue Cousins,
I feel exactly like Cousin Ken. We had the opportunity to pull the trigger and yet again we go for quantity, not quality. And Yes, with one good Draft in the last five years and all this trading around that has netted more trading around, I and many other Cousins in this forum could have done as well if not better without millions of dollar of scouts. Poke fun if you like but then you would be wrong then, wouldn't you.

One solid Draft and BB is the Jim Jones of the NFL Draft. Cousins his last five years have been mediocre at best but for last year. I am sorry to all you died in the wool "Bill knows best...ers". Don't give me a "you should be GM then stuff". It's a crap shoot and he will admit it. He has more resources but for every good Pats pick I will show you two who might have been better. Well if the "Bills Used Cars" could not pull off a better day than yesterday, I stand by my statement that he is a mediocre Drafter.

Was Solder O.K. probably. Is he telling stories when he says Solder was a "best on the board pick"? Maybe bored pick for Bill.

I don't mean to pick on you DW, but I'm quoting below from something you said about the McCourty pick last year:

Now the question of the day? Will Tebow be a better player than MCourty? McCourty won't make an impact for a few years as a CB unless you consider a first round ST ace as a good move. I vote yes on Tebow being more of an impact player by and before 2013 so I guess I grade the Pats as a D for grabbing a ST player in round one. Valuable addition? O.K. first round chattel? No.

If McCourty starts in 2010 kick my butt. Buy my comparison is Tebow to McCourty as the finite difference. I am not a great Tebow fan, he was just the better choice and as much of a non-need as McCorty.

Is it possible that BB actually misses the talents of Ellis Hobbs to grab this kid? I don't want another Hobbs.
DW Toys

I point this out not to single you out, but to say that no one really knows how picks will pan out after just one day after a player is picked in the draft. Yes we all have our opinions on who we like and who we don't like but the reality is that judging a player without even seeing him play in an NFL game is like answering a question without all the facts in place yet.

I didn't know if McCourty was a good pick this time last year because who knew how he would fit in the NE system. It's the same thing with Solder right now. For everyone here on the board complaining about how the first round went, wouldn't it be better to at least see the guy on the field before we make a judgement on how good or bad the pick was?

 

[patfanken]

I don't mean to pick on you DW, but I'm quoting below from something you said about the McCourty pick last year:



I point this out not to single you out, but to say that no one really knows how picks will pan out after just one day after a player is picked in the draft. Yes we all have our opinions on who we like and who we don't like but the reality is that judging a player without even seeing him play in an NFL game is like answering a question without all the facts in place yet.

I didn't know if McCourty was a good pick this time last year because who knew how he would fit in the NE system. It's the same thing with Solder right now. For everyone here on the board complaining about how the first round went, wouldn't it be better to at least see the guy on the field before we make a judgement on how good or bad the pick was?

What a find that was. OUCH! But you are right, none of us know. If the Pats HAD picked Jordan and Ingram, people would have been ecstatic and both of them could end up being merely pedestrian.....on the Patriots.

BUT on the other hand, kvetching is part of the privilege of playing the game. Its a right earned by lots of hours reading and discussing potential picks. Guys like Box, Dry Heat, and many others, including Toys, offered hours of discourse on all these players. All kinds of information that was interesting to read, discuss, even though it was just their humble opinions. God knows I offered a ton of my opinions to the mix (and none of the hard work ). I sure didn't have Solder at the top of my agenda.

 

[ATippett56]

And I'd argue that except for a handful of games the O-line was pretty good last year, they pats were #1 in offense last year.

Stephen Neal retirement
Dan Connolly sucks
Nick Kaczur recovery from back surgery
Matt Light unrestricted free agent
Logan Mankins franchise tag
Dan Koppen last year of contract

Doesn't that make your worry?