How worried are you about not having Mankins?

[PatsBoy12]

Ummm... you do realize Brady was sacked less times last year (only 16 times which other than Manning was the fewest sacks of any Qb who started all 16 games last year) than any year in his career?

Rob, no disrespect, but the sack totals are a bit misleading. Brady was one of the most 'hit' QB's last year. He was able to get the ball out many times, but he still took big hits, unlike 2007. Heck, even in 2008 Matty Cassel spent a lot of time running for his life. I haven't looked at any breakdowns, but I would assume that most of the sacks last year happened against teams with premier pass rushers (Suggs, Dumervil, Jets, etc.).

 

[Pewsterbaby]

No, not pay him "anything". I think we should "negotiate with and settle on a number that works for both sides for this year and then work on an extension with the beast".

Front office should try a more Shylock-ian approach and show Mankins a picture of Justin Tuck for added leverage. "Sign or your weight stat will be a pound lighter."

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I dont know how you can call the OL mediocre when all of the numbers suggest something quite different.

Brady's pocket awareness and pocket movement were absolutely amazing last year. Combined with his quick relase, the OL's numbers look a lot better than they should. I don't think the line was mediocre, but they certainly weren't very good either. Brady took a lot of hits last year.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

Fact: Tom Brady is the man
Fact: Tom Brady can't be the man if he's on his ass
Fact: The O-line keeps Brady off his ass
Fact: The O-line is better WITH Mankins

Conclusion: The Mankins hold out is my biggest worry for the 2010 season.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Our track record is about as irrelevant as it gets right now. On top of that, track record could always change. For instance - before last year we had a successful track record of letting aging veterans go and having guys come in behind them and do a more than admirable job at replacing them. Our track record prior to that dictated so. After last year, that changed. Track records don't really mean much in this case... especially when you're looking at Dan Connolly seeing any sort of significant time in the line-up.

i agree 100% they have not lost 2 games in a row in like 5 years they never lost a home playoff game with brady at QB... i just can't see how anyone can say the pats wont miss a beat with Kaczur, or Connolly, at G or even both if neal, goes down mankins is a all pro Connolly, is a #4 G there will be a big drop off

 

[patfanken]

I am a lot more nervous than I was 2 weeks ago for 2 reasons.


1. Kazcur's injury - He needs this work, since he's changing positons

2. Bruschi's comments in a conversation with Reiss made a lot of sense to me

I have my reservations about Nick Kaczur at left guard. He has been a tackle his entire career, and moving down inside it's an entirely different world. You have to deal with linebackers in space, zero-technique nose guards, different blocking combinations, different angles. That can take some time for a tackle to get used to. Not only that, but Nick Kaczur has the body of an offensive tackle. He is tall, his arms are very long, and when you get into those 1-on-1 confrontations in the center-guard area, that offensive-tackle body can sometimes be a detriment. As an inside linebacker, the taller and longer an offensive guard was I felt like I could get leverage on him, get my helmet under his chin, get a better pop on him. With Kaczur, the more he plays guard, the more you're also affecting his development at tackle. So I think the Mankins "holdout" has a ripple effect across the entire offensive line.

His comments about leverage and a guy with a T's body playing at G were disturbing and started me worrying about the position even if Kazcur makes it back in time to have an effective camp.

 

[Metaphors]

Besides, this is all pointless. Mankins will be playing in week 1.

Totally agree. For those that disagree, what do you think Mankins is going to do? IMO, he sits until after the 3rd preseason game (when the starters get the most action). If the interior line is pretty much intact at that point, he has no remaining leverage. Continuing to hold out at that point hurts him more than it hurts the Pats.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob, no disrespect, but the sack totals are a bit misleading. Brady was one of the most 'hit' QB's last year. He was able to get the ball out many times, but he still took big hits, unlike 2007. Heck, even in 2008 Matty Cassel spent a lot of time running for his life. I haven't looked at any breakdowns, but I would assume that most of the sacks last year happened against teams with premier pass rushers (Suggs, Dumervil, Jets, etc.).

I guess you missed all the threads by maverick4 in his bashing of McDaniels on how Brady was the most hit QB in the league in 2006 and 2007 citing an ESPN article. In case you missed it, here is the thread that shows Brady hit 86 times in those two years:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...tom-brady-most-hit-qb-league-2006-2007-a.html

I doubt Brady had more hits last year than those two years. And hits are misleading because tapping Brady counts as a hit.

Brady wasn't sacked last year during the month of December. That is pretty impressive. Brady will always be hit a lot because one of his strengths is knowing how to hold onto the ball to the last second to allow his receivers to get open. That type of play will allow alot of hits.

 

[Ring 6]

The second half of the Colts game, Randy Starks, and Brady's body say "hi". You really can't honestly think that Connolly did an admirable job...

Randy Starks doesnt play for the Colts.

 

[AzPatsFan]

No, not pay him "anything". I think we should "negotiate with and settle on a number that works for both sides for this year and then work on an extension with the beast".

It seem to me they did, and were totally surprised by his reaction. They still are doing so.

Meanwhile, the brain trust is actively seeking alternatives in what is already there, and what is not, with Giachuic as the prime current example.

 

[363839]

I'm mildly concerned to not have Mankins for the season as I think that we have the personnel to fill in at least adequately.
But I would be so much more confident if Logan were to return to us, as he should.

 

[RayClay]

I am a lot more nervous than I was 2 weeks ago for 2 reasons.


1. Kazcur's injury - He needs this work, since he's changing positons

2. Bruschi's comments in a conversation with Reiss made a lot of sense to me



His comments about leverage and a guy with a T's body playing at G were disturbing and started me worrying about the position even if Kazcur makes it back in time to have an effective camp.

Someone posted their sleeve length and Mankins is longer. I can't verify. They are both 6'4".

 

[PatsBoy12]

I guess you missed all the threads by maverick4 in his bashing of McDaniels on how Brady was the most hit QB in the league in 2006 and 2007 citing an ESPN article. In case you missed it, here is the thread that shows Brady hit 86 times in those two years:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...tom-brady-most-hit-qb-league-2006-2007-a.html

I doubt Brady had more hits last year than those two years. And hits are misleading because tapping Brady counts as a hit.

Brady wasn't sacked last year during the month of December. That is pretty impressive. Brady will always be hit a lot because one of his strengths is knowing how to hold onto the ball to the last second to allow his receivers to get open. That type of play will allow alot of hits.

I guess taking that many hits is fine as long as it doesn't count as a sack.

 

[BradyFTW!]

i agree 100% they have not lost 2 games in a row in like 5 years they never lost a home playoff game with brady at QB... i just can't see how anyone can say the pats wont miss a beat with Kaczur, or Connolly, at G or even both if neal, goes down mankins is a all pro Connolly, is a #4 G there will be a big drop off

12 8:30 PM EST November 30, 2009 New Orleans Saints L 17–38
13 1:00 PM EST December 6, 2009 Miami Dolphins† L 21–22

 

[Rob0729]

I guess taking that many hits is fine as long as it doesn't count as a sack.

Ok, than you think last year was a better o-line than 2006 or 2007 because Brady was hit more than last year? At least we agree that the 2009 o-line were pretty good at pass blocking.

BTW, I found this:

NFL Stats: by Team Category

According to NFL.com, the Pats o-line allowed the 13th fewest QB hits in the league. Of the teams who allowed fewer hits, only Indy had more passing attempts.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Ok, than you think last year was a better o-line than 2006 or 2007 because Brady was hit more than last year? At least we agree that the 2009 o-line were pretty good at pass blocking.

BTW, I found this:

NFL Stats: by Team Category

According to NFL.com, the Pats o-line allowed the 13th fewest QB hits in the league. Of the teams who allowed fewer hits, only Indy had more passing attempts.

I was just going to say "Brady gets hit more because the Pats pass more", but that explains it way better. Great info.

 

[Rob0729]

I was just going to say "Brady gets hit more because the Pats pass more", but that explains it way better. Great info.

Well, this is definitely a case of people who are trashing the Pats' o-line last year's pass protection allowing their lying eyes get the best of them. Probably because the Pats passed so much and the offense wasn't clicking on all cylinders. You look at sacks and QB hits and they clearly are above average in both categories.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, than you think last year was a better o-line than 2006 or 2007 because Brady was hit more than last year? At least we agree that the 2009 o-line were pretty good at pass blocking.

BTW, I found this:

NFL Stats: by Team Category

According to NFL.com, the Pats o-line allowed the 13th fewest QB hits in the league. Of the teams who allowed fewer hits, only Indy had more passing attempts.

Posters get caught up with themes, and thinking gets tossed out the window. We saw that with the homers all last year, after seeing it with the Chicken Littles for several years prior to that. The O-line theme is one that has been around ever since the 2007 Super Bowl. Brady could go untouched in 1000 passing attempts this season, and the "Brady gets hit too much" would still be trumpeted from the rooftops.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady's pocket awareness and pocket movement were absolutely amazing last year. Combined with his quick relase, the OL's numbers look a lot better than they should. I don't think the line was mediocre, but they certainly weren't very good either. Brady took a lot of hits last year.

I dontreally care how they would block for Mark Sanchez, or Jason Campbell we need them to block for Brady. If his awareness helped them or hurt them is really irrelevant because they play together.

 

[Kontradiction]

Randy Starks doesnt play for the Colts.

Nope. He plays for the Dolphins and was constantly in our backfield in the second game in Miami when going up against Connolly and Koppen. The fact that he didn't get a sack is a testament to Brady and his quickness in releasing the ball. Connolly is fine for depth but, like I said, I absolutely do not want him starting for any period of time. If Kaczur's injury looks to affect his season, I would hope BB starts looking at what's left on the market, especially after cuts take place.