How good are our corners?

[Joker]

Yeah, we need giants like:

Ty Law (5'11")
Asante Samuel (5'10")
Champ Bailey (6'0")
Darrelle Revis (5'11")
Jairus Byrd (5'10")

Instead of these midgets:

Jonathan Wilhite (5'11")
Terrence Wheatley (5'9")
Leigh Bodden (6'1")
Darius Butler (5'10")

Clearly height is the problem with our crop of CBs

well...I didn't mention Bodden or Butler but I guess by your sarcastic comeback you DO think a Hobbs on a Burress is some kind of "doesn't matter!!!" matchup. Looking at the teams in the Bowl AND looking at how the Saints BLASTED our secondary this season with their big WR's,I'm just remarking that while we continue to put stock in smallish DB's the rest of the league seems to be putting premiums on larger WR's. Go ahead and blast THAT, though...and keep tryingto get a different result on Madden with Hobbs on Burress.

 

[Deus Irae]

well...I didn't mention Bodden or Butler but I guess by your sarcastic comeback you DO think a Hobbs on a Burress is some kind of "doesn't matter!!!" matchup. Looking at the teams in the Bowl AND looking at how the Saints BLASTED our secondary this season with their big WR's,I'm just remarking that while we continue to put stock in smallish DB's the rest of the league seems to be putting premiums on larger WR's. Go ahead and blast THAT, though...and keep tryingto get a different result on Madden with Hobbs on Burress.

The Hobbs/Burress thing is just a terrible argument, sorry. It's not as if Burgess beat him on a jump ball. Height was irrelevant on that play.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yeah, we need giants like:

Ty Law (5'11")
Asante Samuel (5'10")
Champ Bailey (6'0")
Darrelle Revis (5'11")
Jairus Byrd (5'10")

Instead of these midgets:

Jonathan Wilhite (5'11")
Terrence Wheatley (5'9")
Leigh Bodden (6'1")
Darius Butler (5'10")

Clearly height is the problem with our crop of CBs

Yup, tall CBs with the talent to play under today's rules are very rare. Ever since the contact rules got 're-emphasized', the era of the big CB (if there ever even really was such an era) is pretty much over. Remember, your CB needs to be more agile than the WR he's covering. To do that while being tall requires a pretty freakish type of athleticism that you don't find very often (the Cromartie cousins, Asomugha immediately come to mind). Basically, a first round pick. Tall CBs with tons of talent don't tend to last into the second round- you end up with the Dolphins picking a guy like Sean Smith, who, sure, is 6'4", but his skills pretty much begin and end with him being physical. As a result, you end up with a lesser version of the Richard Seymour conundrum, where yeah, you'd love to have a guy with those skills, but the only way you're getting that skill-set is with an extremely high pick or breaking the bank for it in FA. Belichick, OTOH, seems to think that it's better for the team to make do with 5'10-6'0 CBs (and there are plenty of excellent CBs at this height) and spend the money and high picks elsewhere.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Wheatley only played in 5 games this season, so it is tough to call him a disappointment because he hasnt been given the chance to show what he can or cannot do on the field. Wilhite on the other hand has been given the chance to play and he didnt do anything to make his case that he should be starting. This season is big for the 2 of them because they will be in their 3rd seasons and its time for them to contribute and if they dont they will certainly be dumped, if they arent in this off season.

What a moronic argument.

What is the reason that Wilhite is ahead of Wheatley? Because he is better.

He must be someway better as well. Wheatley can play Special Teams and return. Wilhite doesn't.

 

[The Dynasty]

What a moronic argument.

What is the reason that Wilhite is ahead of Wheatley? Because he is better.

He must be someway better as well. Wheatley can play Special Teams and return. Wilhite doesn't.

The original argument was who was more of a disappointment. How can someone who is not given a chance to play be classified as a disappointment?

Wilhite plays special teams as well as Wheatley. The games that Wilhite played in he also played special teams. Get your facts straight.

 

[Sicilian]

well...I didn't mention Bodden or Butler but I guess by your sarcastic comeback you DO think a Hobbs on a Burress is some kind of "doesn't matter!!!" matchup. Looking at the teams in the Bowl AND looking at how the Saints BLASTED our secondary this season with their big WR's,I'm just remarking that while we continue to put stock in smallish DB's the rest of the league seems to be putting premiums on larger WR's. Go ahead and blast THAT, though...and keep tryingto get a different result on Madden with Hobbs on Burress.

As Deus pointed out, the Burress on Hobbs example is terrible, but I'll bite. No, I don't think playing Hobbs 1 on 1 against Burress near the goal line is a good idea. But it's not because of his height, just an overall talent descrepancy. I would feel better with Law in his prime or the current Darrelle Revis in that matchup, and though they're 2" taller (5'11"), they're hardly the Goliath type CBs you seem to pine over.

And honestly, regardless of who I had at corner, I would not have left ANY corner without safety help in that particular situation... assuming that was a coaching decision and not a player miscue, of course.

Final point, why on earth would I use Madden to be an accurate judge of NFL football results?

 

[sbpatfan]

well...I didn't mention Bodden or Butler but I guess by your sarcastic comeback you DO think a Hobbs on a Burress is some kind of "doesn't matter!!!" matchup. Looking at the teams in the Bowl AND looking at how the Saints BLASTED our secondary this season with their big WR's,I'm just remarking that while we continue to put stock in smallish DB's the rest of the league seems to be putting premiums on larger WR's. Go ahead and blast THAT, though...and keep tryingto get a different result on Madden with Hobbs on Burress.

What you fail to realize is the majority of the corners in the league are in the 5'10, 5'11, 6'0 range (that's every team, not just the Patriots). Corners over 6'2 are an anomaly. Our secondary wasn't thrashed in the Saints game because they lacked height.

 

[patriotscpfc]

The original argument was who was more of a disappointment. How can someone who is not given a chance to play be classified as a disappointment?

Wilhite plays special teams as well as Wheatley. The games that Wilhite played in he also played special teams. Get your facts straight.

Wheatley returns Kicks.

The thing that Wilhite doesn't.

And when I was at Wembley, Wilhite played no snaps on Special Teams, in the two other games that I broke down as I could record it, he played an entire 2 snaps on Special Teams. Next question.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the corners are the problem.

with only one starting caliber DL(warren) and one starting caliber LB(mayo), CB is not something that should be worried about at this time.......the secondary is in better shape than either LB or DL

 

[The Dynasty]

Wheatley returns Kicks.

The thing that Wilhite doesn't.

And when I was at Wembley, Wilhite played no snaps on Special Teams, in the two other games that I broke down as I could record it, he played an entire 2 snaps on Special Teams. Next question.

He must be someway better as well. Wheatley can play Special Teams and return. Wilhite doesn't.

You said that Wilhite doesnt play special teams, when in fact he did. Mistake number 1.

You are also completely wrong on Wilhite's production on special teams...
Buffalo: 1 ST tackle
Baltimore: 1 ST tackle
Dolphins: 1 ST tackle
Panthers: 1 ST tackle

He also played ST's in other games but did not record a tackle

 

[Joker]

wow...all these slams because I think 5'8 cb's are too light in the seat to be as effective as bigger corners in today's landscape...well, there's light years difference between a 5'11 TY Law and a Wheatley in both strength and leverage. Forgive me for wanting a Deion Sanders type, 6'1" with speed. over an Ellis Hobbs, who, by the retorts of the "Junior GM" wannabe's was a bad example in the Burress case...why???...because he was in single coverage as a CB?... isn't that what a corner's responsibility is on that play???you wouldn't have felt a lot more secure if a Law was on Burress that play??what about a Bobby Taylor...6'3" perennial Eagle all pro...you think Wheatley would be just as effective against a Colston type?...interesting...all I read on this board is the same guys complaining about the D and the lack of hitting and yet I get castigated for suggesting maybe a step up from the smurfs we've been routinely drafting the past few seasons might be a good idea...excuse me all to hell for breathing

 

[Deus Irae]

wow...all these slams because I think 5'8 cb's are too light in the seat to be as effective as bigger corners in today's landscape...well, there's light years difference between a 5'11 TY Law and a Wheatley in both strength and leverage. Forgive me for wanting a Deion Sanders type, 6'1" with speed. over an Ellis Hobbs, who, by the retorts of the "Junior GM" wannabe's was a bad example in the Burress case...why???...because he was in single coverage as a CB?... isn't that what a corner's responsibility is on that play???you wouldn't have felt a lot more secure if a Law was on Burress that play??what about a Bobby Taylor...6'3" perennial Eagle all pro...you think Wheatley would be just as effective against a Colston type?...interesting...all I read on this board is the same guys complaining about the D and the lack of hitting and yet I get castigated for suggesting maybe a step up from the smurfs we've been routinely drafting the past few seasons might be a good idea...excuse me all to hell for breathing

Joker, you used a terrible example. It happens. Again, the play wasn't made because Burress was taller than Hobbs. Height had nothing to do with that completion. If Hobbs had been 6'8" with everything else being equal, that pass would still have been completed. The fact that you're pointing to Ty Law (only 5'11") and a "perennial Eagle All Pro" should tell you what your argument really is. Height is not irrelevant, but it's way down the list of what's important in a cornerback. Revis is 5'11", not 6'3", and he put the clamps on quite a few top, tall, receivers this year. Just ask the 6'4" Randy Moss.

 

[Sicilian]

Forgive me for wanting a Deion Sanders type, 6'1" with speed.

Oh, sorry, THAT'S all you want? Well we should have no problem going out and finding a few of the greatest DBs of all time. They're so plentiful.