How good are our corners?

[capetide]

In his second year with the Patriots, Ty Law was a #1 CB.

It took Asante Samuel about 4 years to reach that level, as in his rookie year he played less than Butler.

He came on his second year and had a middling season. By his 3rd year, he was playing really well, and in his 4th, he became a #1 CB.

So, I think Butler will have a year not as good as Ty Law's second year, but better than Samuel's third.

We'll be looking at him starting opposite Bodden, and many days we'll be saying that he is the better CB.

Some people forget ( or were too young to know ) how much Asante Samuel struggled and how often he was picked on by opposing QB's during his first couple of years. I used to cringe whenever he walked onto the field. Wilhite and Butler (and Wheatley) may end up following a similar path. (But I do wish that the defensive back coach would teach them to look back for the ball once in a while. Gets frustrating watching balls travel right over their shoulder into the receivers hands)

 

[Kontradiction]

I agree with you to a large extent. Particularly early in the year, I thought Wilhite was getting good coverage even when he got beat. Against the Colts, for example, he got beat twice for TDs in which he had excellent coverage on his man, but Manning made a perfect throw and the receiver made a great catch. I can't fault him for that.

Later in the year he seemed to develop "Maroney syndrome" and seemed a little shell-shocked. Perhaps his confidence had taken a hit. But I wouldn't give up on him this soon, by any means.

Actually, only one of them was for a TD I believe. The first was on a beautiful sideline route run by Wayne and an equally beautiful throw by Manning (I believe that's when the game was still 0-0). The second one was another beautiful throw by Manning just over Wilhite's outstretched fingertips to Wayne in the EZ for 7. Heh, the funny thing is that Butler was victimized just as badly, if not worse, than Wilhite was a couple of times in that game... yet nobody says anything about Butler. Personally, I'm happy with the secondary if Wilhite or Wheatley are in playing nickelback. IMO, I think Butler will improve by leaps and bounds in 2010. He was really starting to look comfortable in the defense last season.

 

[sbpatfan]

I think we have a young, above average secondary that will greatly improve with experience and a better pass rush. The only disappointment thus far, for me anyways, is Wheatley.

 

[dhamz]

It is hard to look at the CB spot in a vacuum unless you have Deion and Champ both out there on islands in coverage. Every other area on the defense factors into their performance - how do the safeties and LBs cover, how does the line and LB pressure the QB.

I certainly don't see elite talent at corner but it isn't Earthwind Moreland, Duane Starks, and Delta O'neal either. There were a couple solid veteran guys and some young kids with talent who we hope will get better. It is not the critical need on D right now. If you fix some of the other issues on D the CBs will look better.

 

[JackBauer]

Bodden is a good cover corner, he is not a risk taker like Samuel.

I meant Samuel-esque as in "more or less in the same ballpark in terms of overall quality."

I am well aware they are different types of players.

 

[The Dynasty]

I think we have a young, above average secondary that will greatly improve with experience and a better pass rush. The only disappointment thus far, for me anyways, is Wheatley.

I agree with that statement besides the fact that the biggest disappointment has been Wheatley, that should definitely be Wilhite.

 

[captain stone]

Some people forget ( or were too young to know ) how much Asante Samuel struggled and how often he was picked on by opposing QB's during his first couple of years. I used to cringe whenever he walked onto the field.
I also cringed, in 2003. In 2004, not as much.
A$ante seemed to make more progress from '03-'04 than Wilhite did from '08-'09. Wilhite looks more or less the same this year as he did last year.

Wilhite and Butler (and Wheatley) may end up following a similar path.
Wilhite - possibly
Butler - probably
Wheatley - probably not.

(But I do wish that the defensive back coach would teach them to look back for the ball once in a while. Gets frustrating watching balls travel right over their shoulder into the receivers hands)

I know exactly what you mean. Very frustrating, and it happened much too often this season.

 

[mgteich]

I guess some folks were more satisfied with Wheatley than Wilhite. I guess Wheatley played really well while being inactive almost always.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Son you think Wilhite has more hope than Butler?

Butler got taken to task early in the first half of the Miami game, but in the second half, they threw at him 10 times and he batted down 5 of them, and not a single one was completed. He actually knocked down 4 straight passes on 4 straight plays at one point over two series. And then on the final time they threw at him (the 11th) he gave up a 10 yard first down to Hartline on the sidelines.

Never said I thought Wilhite had more potential than Butler. I think Butler is definitely our best CB prospect and will develop into our #1 CB. But I think Wilhite has the potential to be a very good #2 CB for us if he works on locating the ball. I just think people are getting down on Wilhite too quickly. Give the kid some time to develop and work out the kinks.

 

[Joker]

one thing I find rather disconcerting is, while the Pats keep drafting these midget sub 6 foot CB's like Wheatley and Wilhite,the other successful playoff teams in the league have a plethora of 6'4" and taller fast ,talented WR's...it's like somebody is trying to PROVE that Ellis Hobbs one on one with Plaxico Burress IS a good matchup...I just don't see it.

 

[Sicilian]

I agree with that statement besides the fact that the biggest disappointment has been Wheatley, that should definitely be Wilhite.

So, the 4th round pick who spot started and was active nearly every game, is a bigger disappointment than the 2nd round pick who barely played (and when he did, did very little)?

Interesting.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

one thing I find rather disconcerting is, while the Pats keep drafting these midget sub 6 foot CB's like Wheatley and Wilhite,the other successful playoff teams in the league have a plethora of 6'4" and taller fast ,talented WR's...it's like somebody is trying to PROVE that Ellis Hobbs one on one with Plaxico Burress IS a good matchup...I just don't see it.

That's why I was high on Sean Smith last year. He was listed at 6'3" so you know he can be physical and jam guys at the line and also go up and compete for the ball easier with a Moss, Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Burress, etc. I thought that was a very good pick by Miami. I'm content with Butler but I would've been fine with Smith too. I really like his game.

 

[Sicilian]

one thing I find rather disconcerting is, while the Pats keep drafting these midget sub 6 foot CB's like Wheatley and Wilhite,the other successful playoff teams in the league have a plethora of 6'4" and taller fast ,talented WR's...it's like somebody is trying to PROVE that Ellis Hobbs one on one with Plaxico Burress IS a good matchup...I just don't see it.

Yeah, we need giants like:

Ty Law (5'11")
Asante Samuel (5'10")
Champ Bailey (6'0")
Darrelle Revis (5'11")
Jairus Byrd (5'10")

Instead of these midgets:

Jonathan Wilhite (5'11")
Terrence Wheatley (5'9")
Leigh Bodden (6'1")
Darius Butler (5'10")

Clearly height is the problem with our crop of CBs

 

[BionicPatriot]

People who say Wilhite sucks have no clue about football. Wilhite reminds me of a good strong DL that needs to learn to use his hands better. Same with Wilhite. He's never getting beat deep, he just isn't fighting, isn't jumping. Like others said he seemed a little "shell shocked" later in the year. He just wasnt agressive using his hands. If he can start using his hands, he'll be a pretty solid #3 guy for us. But some guys have bad habits they never break, I hope he isn't one of them.

As other said Asante Samuel was far from elite status his second year with the Patriots too. I'm fine with this group, assuming we can keep Bodden. If they lose him though CB becomes a glaring hole that we don't want to have tow aste time filling. Re-sign Bodden, focus on the front 7 and away we go.

 

[The Dynasty]

So, the 4th round pick who spot started and was active nearly every game, is a bigger disappointment than the 2nd round pick who barely played (and when he did, did very little)?

Interesting.

They both are not very good, face it. Butler is better than them both and he was a rookie this season. Wilhite got picked on far more than Wheatley this season.

 

[Sicilian]

They both are not very good, face it. Butler is better than them both and he was a rookie this season. Wilhite got picked on far more than Wheatley this season.

Because he played a lot more than Wheatley did. And when I saw Wheatley get beat, he was way off the receiver. When Wilhite allowed catches, he was always in pretty tight coverage, just didn't have that last instinct to make a play on the ball. I think that's a lot easier to correct than not being near the receiver.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because he played a lot more than Wheatley did. And when I saw Wheatley get beat, he was way off the receiver. When Wilhite allowed catches, he was always in pretty tight coverage, just didn't have that last instinct to make a play on the ball. I think that's a lot easier to correct than not being near the receiver.

Wheatley is an interesting case. He was ahead of Wilhite prior to his injury last season, but he's been essentially a ghost ever since. Did he lose his nerve, did looking back on tape show the staff that they had overrated his rookie performance, etc....

This is the sort of thing I wish we could get some insight on. In fact, if anyone wants to bounce the question off of Reiss, I'd be very interested in his opinion.

 

[BradyFTW!]

So, the 4th round pick who spot started and was active nearly every game, is a bigger disappointment than the 2nd round pick who barely played (and when he did, did very little)?

Interesting.

Depends on what timeframe you're talking about. From the draft to now, Wheatley is obviously a bigger disappointment. For just this season, I'd say Wilhite was. I liked some of what I saw from Wilhite as a rookie, and hoped he'd build on it, but he didn't seem to, and that disappointed me. With Wheatley, I didn't expect anything from him because he had been hurt for most of his rookie year.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Wheatley is an interesting case. He was ahead of Wilhite prior to his injury last season, but he's been essentially a ghost ever since. Did he lose his nerve, did looking back on tape show the staff that they had overrated his rookie performance, etc....

This is the sort of thing I wish we could get some insight on. In fact, if anyone wants to bounce the question off of Reiss, I'd be very interested in his opinion.

I too remember Wheatley batting down a Manning pass. He hasn't looked the same since unfortunately.

 

[The Dynasty]

Because he played a lot more than Wheatley did. And when I saw Wheatley get beat, he was way off the receiver. When Wilhite allowed catches, he was always in pretty tight coverage, just didn't have that last instinct to make a play on the ball. I think that's a lot easier to correct than not being near the receiver.

Wheatley only played in 5 games this season, so it is tough to call him a disappointment because he hasnt been given the chance to show what he can or cannot do on the field. Wilhite on the other hand has been given the chance to play and he didnt do anything to make his case that he should be starting. This season is big for the 2 of them because they will be in their 3rd seasons and its time for them to contribute and if they dont they will certainly be dumped, if they arent in this off season.