Here to give Maroney props

[Deus Irae]

Sorry, but that's a pretty stupid point to latch onto. Large groups can be right just as often as they are wrong. People look at the evidence and make a decision based on it. Anyone who showed confidence in Matt Cassel after the 2008 preseason wasn't doing anything beyond 'in Belichick we trust', because there really wasn't anything to go on with the guy except a bunch of ****ty throws against vanilla defenses with a patchwork O-line.

Sometimes people are right about a guy based on what they've seen, and sometimes that guy just hasn't shown it yet.

Who gets to be "right" and who gets to be "wrong" when it comes to guys on the edge like Maroney just comes down to when Belichick eventually decides to let them move on, or resign them.

Only in Fantasyland would that be the criteria. This is the internet. That's close, but not quite the same thing.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nope.

(Consider your points dealt with).

Well, given that you have no points other than to pretend you know Belichick's mind, there's really nothing more to discuss.

 

[tobias funke]

I love the "anyone with a brain" nonsense, though, since "anyone with a brain" apparently thought Cassel was a goner in the exhibition season. Also, the media "accepted" that Cassel was gone.

I'll try to make this analogy very simple so you can follow it, because it doesn't seem like you've followed very much of what I've said so far:

Let's replace Matt Cassel with Joey Galloway, and pretend there is a fictional Deus Irae who is a fan of Joey and thinks he will stick with the team, even after a relatively poor preseason. He even played so poorly he was benched (much like Cassel after his relief appearance in the Dolphins game one season). This fan of Joey's persevered though, and knew Joey would get his chance to shine as soon as Randy Moss got hurt, because Joey was being asked to run over the middle too often, and he is primarily an X receiver like Randy. Gotta play to his strengths (like the short passes with Matt Cassel).

But Randy Moss didn't get hurt, and Joey Galloway was cut.

And Joey's fan was very upset because he never got to say Hey man I told everyone Joey could do it even though he looked terrible when he played football for us!

 

[tobias funke]

Only in Fantasyland would that be the criteria. This is the internet. That's close, but not quite the same thing.

James Sanders gets a new deal: yay! he's been a good roleplayer for us! good for him!

James Sanders sits on the bench: what a crappy player! why are we paying him all this money! I can't believe we gave him a new deal!

Belichick has said many times the roster is an ever-evolving entity, something that can change at literally any moment based on another team's roster decision, an injury, a loss forcing a philosophy change, another player getting healthy, etc.

I'm honestly baffled that you find it such a stretch that Matt Cassel was even close to becoming a free agent in 2008. I mean I get that you're afraid to read anything into Belichick's comments for whatever reason, but then what's the point of ever discussing anything he says? If you don't read into what he says at least a little bit, this is the most boring football organization off the field on the planet, which is surely not the case.

If I remember correctly, even Mike Reiss considered Cassel being cut a distinct possibility, and made it one of the storylines of the preseason. I don't know about you, but I consider Reiss pretty decent at what he does.

 

[The Dynasty]

James Sanders gets a new deal: yay! he's been a good roleplayer for us! good for him!

James Sanders sits on the bench: what a crappy player! why are we paying him all this money! I can't believe we gave him a new deal!

Belichick has said many times the roster is an ever-evolving entity, something that can change at literally any moment based on another team's roster decision, an injury, a loss forcing a philosophy change, another player getting healthy, etc.

I'm honestly baffled that you find it such a stretch that Matt Cassel was even close to becoming a free agent in 2008. I mean I get that you're afraid to read anything into Belichick's comments for whatever reason, but then what's the point of ever discussing anything he says? If you don't read into what he says at least a little bit, this is the most boring football organization off the field on the planet, which is surely not the case.

If I remember correctly, even Mike Reiss considered Cassel being cut a distinct possibility, and made it one of the storylines of the preseason. I don't know about you, but I consider Reiss pretty decent at what he does.

I am not going to get involved with this argument because I havent read the whole thread, but I will say that you are correct with Reiss. He predicted that Cassel would be cut. I concider Reiss the best in the business.

Good luck with Deus, seems like he has nothing better to do than to start fights on irrelevent things and refuses to appriciate other peoples opinions.

 

[tobias funke]

Good luck with Deus, seems like he has nothing better to do than to start fights on irrelevent things and refuses to appriciate other peoples opinions.

That's alright.

He has to appreciate mine, because it's clear I'm right.

 

[RayClay]

So much for giving him props.. looks like the argument is starting up again.

The argument is all that's important.

Having a running back now fighting for every yard doesn't matter if we can prove some statistic is not tops in the league, or guess which teams he would or wouldn't start for.

This isn't a football game where converting for first downs and touchdowns is paramount.

This is a message board. Defending your argument is all that counts.

 

[RayClay]

I too am waiting for Maroney to bounce it outside and get that stiff arm going again.

In boxing they say, take the body and the head will follow. This hard running is making defenses pay new respect, they don't like being embarrased having somebody run right up the middle.

Being a beast up the middle is going to mean he will be more successful bouncing it out for wide open stuff. rmember, he was most succesful at first, then had been injured.

Defenses get a book on a player and that assessment could have been, "likes to run outside, dangerous as hell" (maybe hesitates, looking for hole too, sorry).

He's rewriting that book. They can no longer afford to risk letting him get going. I'd like to see some power sweeps too.

Still, running up the gut is the test in the NFL. If you can't rip defenses that play soft, they will string you out to death on outside runs.

 

[BlitzFritz]

Promise, last time I will ever comment about Maroney. If he was a 4th round pick then most people would be happy with the production. Unfortuntately for him he was drafted in the first round and know has to perform to that level of expectations.

I watch him and think, does he do anything that any other RB can't do? Is he stronger?faster? have better hands? block better? read blocking better?

Not really, he is an average NFL running back. Dime a dozen. Looking quickly at NFL Rosters, the only teams that I think he would be the starter are:

• Cleveland
• KC
• Tampa

So, below average starter, average RB overall.

thank you. completely average. AND now he FUMBLES !

 

[MoLewisrocks]

James Sanders gets a new deal: yay! he's been a good roleplayer for us! good for him!

James Sanders sits on the bench: what a crappy player! why are we paying him all this money! I can't believe we gave him a new deal!

Belichick has said many times the roster is an ever-evolving entity, something that can change at literally any moment based on another team's roster decision, an injury, a loss forcing a philosophy change, another player getting healthy, etc.

I'm honestly baffled that you find it such a stretch that Matt Cassel was even close to becoming a free agent in 2008. I mean I get that you're afraid to read anything into Belichick's comments for whatever reason, but then what's the point of ever discussing anything he says? If you don't read into what he says at least a little bit, this is the most boring football organization off the field on the planet, which is surely not the case.

If I remember correctly, even Mike Reiss considered Cassel being cut a distinct possibility, and made it one of the storylines of the preseason. I don't know about you, but I consider Reiss pretty decent at what he does.

Reiss is pretty good at what he's supposed to do, not nearly as good at what the industry forces him to do. He's a reporter, not a scout or analyst. None of them are. They misread the situation with not only Cassel but with just about every backup and situation involving one on this roster for the last 4 or 5 years. They've done this for the simple reason they don't grasp what this organization is seeking at the position. Happens a lot with other situations, too.

And then like posters here they get defensive about their position and attempt to blame the organization for making them look less insightful because it couldn't be that they just aren't.... They took a remark one of them reported hearing, that the team loved Gutierrez work ethic heading into the 2008 season, and before KOC was even drafted began to spin that into some mass insinuation that Cassel had one foot out the door. That kneejerk fans who over reacted as usual to his throwing a pick in garbage time coming in cold off the bench embraced that is not surprising. That they embraced Gutierrez and O'Connell's efforts to make things happen in pre season is just fan fueled ignorance based on the importance of winning even pre season contests. That none of it meant much in context of what Cassel had already shown over 3 seasons here, not to mention Cassel remained 2nd on the depth chart by snaps and usage throughout the 2008 pre season while Gutierrez visibly unraveled in the face of roster competition and KOC remained nothing more than a rookie prospect, was lost on all the kneejerks including those in the media.

Reiss admitted long ago he was wr...wr...wrong and totally misread that entire situation which was only underscored when both Gutierrez and KOC were jettisoned this season in favor of the unknown but obviously (to anyone paying attention) more level headed and steady if not flashy Hoyer...AND NO FAILED VETERAN JAG. Mike's still not sure how all that happened, which is sad, but he doesn't even attempt to defend his postion any more. Message board egos being what they are, however, folks like yourself will continue to attempt to 'til the day you die which is why you will never learn.

I'm sure Belichick is disappointed in the way things have unfolded with the running game as a whole here over the last 5 seasons. But that disappointment starts with himself. He misread Dillon's projected remaining value when he extended him heading into 2005. He miscalculated when he drafted a RB with breakaway skills when he had an OL that has it's hands full passblocking consistently. He tried to mitigate that by replacing Dillon's goal line skillset with Morris only to have him severely injured a month into his first season. But having acquired Moss and Welker the team was transformed into a pass first offense anyway so it appeared deficiencies in the run game were just another weakness he could scheme to cover. Until it didn't work well down the stretch. So he began to fill the goal line void redundantly adding Jordan, only to have him succomb to injury too even as Maroney was lost for the season.

And he found nothing worked quite well enough in Brady's absence even though his replacement turned out to be not only a competent backup but an above average NFL starting QB he could even (and this was what he didn't know in pre season) fr..fr..franchise tag and flip for a #34 pick... That they scheduled visits with a couple of veteran jags no one else had signed before Brady went down was never more than the update the rolodex due diligence they always undertake at every position on the eve of a season. That they cancelled those visits was little more than a wise move under the circumstanced to not fuel the local mediots and pitchfork weilding kneejerk fans already established desire to undercut Cassel as well as Belichick given the situation at hand.

This season with Brady back he turned to Fred Taylor... to replace Jordon who was signed to augment Morris who was signed to replace Dillon...only to have both Morris and Taylor go down. Somehow through it all what the kneejerks have focused on is the media created and driven perception that Maroney, who missed most of last season due to injury, dances too much. Even as BB repeatedly not only defends Maroney's effort and performance but calls out his OL for not opening holes consistently after drafting the first pieces of his next generation OL. And they can't for the life of them understand why their PS binky who clearly showed in pre season he was far and away the better back isn't starting...

It's just sad. Belichick isn't that hard to decipher unless you disregard and dismiss what he is both doing and saying... If you want to disagree with or argue about what he's up to and why, have a ball. It's a fools errand but there is no shortage of those here or in the Boston media.

 

[tobias funke]

I'm not sure why you quoted my post because most of what you said doesn't really run counter to any of what I've posted. Reiss was wrong about Cassel, and he follows the team as close as anyone not paid by them can. The fact remains that if he came to a certain opinion based on the visual evidence, it surely isn't "stupid" that a vast majority of the fanbase did as well.

That they cancelled those visits was little more than a wise move under the circumstanced to not fuel the local mediots and pitchfork weilding kneejerk fans already established desire to undercut Cassel as well as Belichick given the situation at hand.

And this statement is literally no different from what I did in terms of supposition. Technically the team never explained exactly why the visits were either planned, or canceled, so it is up to the fans and the media to speculate why either happened. Until Belichick or someone else with the team clarifies why, it will remain that way.

I'm not knocking you for speculating, but you're pretending to be just as "insightful" as I am, whether you admit it or not. IMO there's nothing wrong with that. That to me is the entire point of this message board. If we can only take what is disseminated from the team as fact and never attempt to form an opinion based on watching players and reading between the lines, what is there to discuss?

Also, let me make something clear: I am a Maroney supporter and agree with you 100% that Belichick has never said anything or given us any reason to think he isn't a good player for us who puts in the effort and tries to get the yards that are there. I don't consider myself a 'kneejerk analyst' who immediately assumes because a guy throws an incomplete pass or runs into a pile for no gain that he sucks and won't be on the team.

But that doesn't change the fact that the evidence Cassel provided left a decent chance that he might not make the team. And I have no problem sticking to my guns with my belief that Belichick could have been very close to cutting the guy after his preseason performance, and surely if his game did not improve following his first few starts in 2008. That's the way the NFL works. It's a credit to Cassel that he showed the team he was the real deal over the course of the year. I think that's the main point that gets lost in all of this that Belichick made: Cassel proved himself when he got his chance. If he never got his chance, or the situation were slightly different heading into the season, the Chiefs would probably still be rolling with Thigpen or whoever.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm not sure why you quoted my post because most of what you said doesn't really run counter to any of what I've posted. Reiss was wrong about Cassel, and he follows the team as close as anyone not paid by them can. The fact remains that if he came to a certain opinion based on the visual evidence, it surely isn't "stupid" that a vast majority of the fanbase did as well.



And this statement is literally no different from what I did in terms of supposition. Technically the team never explained exactly why the visits were either planned, or canceled, so it is up to the fans and the media to speculate why either happened. Until Belichick or someone else with the team clarifies why, it will remain that way.

I'm not knocking you for speculating, but you're pretending to be just as "insightful" as I am, whether you admit it or not. IMO there's nothing wrong with that. That to me is the entire point of this message board. If we can only take what is disseminated from the team as fact and never attempt to form an opinion based on watching players and reading between the lines, what is there to discuss?

Also, let me make something clear: I am a Maroney supporter and agree with you 100% that Belichick has never said anything or given us any reason to think he isn't a good player for us who puts in the effort and tries to get the yards that are there. I don't consider myself a 'kneejerk analyst' who immediately assumes because a guy throws an incomplete pass or runs into a pile for no gain that he sucks and won't be on the team.

But that doesn't change the fact that the evidence Cassel provided left a decent chance that he might not make the team. And I have no problem sticking to my guns with my belief that Belichick could have been very close to cutting the guy after his preseason performance, and surely if his game did not improve following his first few starts in 2008. That's the way the NFL works. It's a credit to Cassel that he showed the team he was the real deal over the course of the year. I think that's the main point that gets lost in all of this that Belichick made: Cassel proved himself when he got his chance. If he never got his chance, or the situation were slightly different heading into the season, the Chiefs would probably still be rolling with Thigpen or whoever.

The point you miss is visual evidence in preseason is meaningless unless you grasp what the coaches and organization are looking for and attempting to ascertain in context. They aren't looking for guys who find a way that isn't the prescribed way. They are looking for disciplined, level headed guys who run the plays called so they can assess the team in it's entirety. Particularly they look for that against first team opposition. Some of us kept trying to explain that the the rest of you only all you cared about was who improvised and moved the chains against third stringers in a desperate effort to win meaningless games hoping that would save his job.

Cassel was never close to being cut except in the minds of the media and some fans who don't understand what they are watching. He was the #2 throughout TC and the preseason, as he had been for the prior 2 seasons. Were they contemplating cutting him he would have been replaced at some point so the new #2 could get first and second team reps. Instead the guy some fans and the media was certain would be the #2 because they felt he was performing better with and against 3rd and 4th stringers never advanced and got those reps and predictably got cut. Duh...

And a year later it happened again because the flashier guy they drafted in the 3rd round failed to develop within the system because he lacked the base intangibles skillset they are always looking for. Coachability, discipline, poise and presence, the ability to make good decisions consistently and quickly, the capacity to read defenses pre and post snap and make prescribed adjustments consistently. It's never the guy who kept the play alive and pulled something unscripted out of his ass in pre season here because you can't count on him doing that consistently at the next level and you can't support him with scheme because you can't trust him to run it correctly or play within it. Same deal with freelancers on defense.

 

[tobias funke]

The point you miss is visual evidence in preseason is meaningless unless you grasp what the coaches and organization are looking for and attempting to ascertain in context.

I don't miss that point at all. That's a clear facet of how the NFL works. Only the team really knows what it wants, and that's why cut-down day is often such a surprise.

Yet for anyone on this forum to pretend they know for sure the answers to those questions is ludicrous. So we all do the best we can.

And my whole point is that there hasn't been any real insight into the decision-making process regarding that preseason from the team at all, until that small quote by Belichick.

And in my opinion, that quote (partly that Cassel didn't play 'all that great' in the preseason, and that he really came into his own once he started having gameplans tailored to his strengths and participating in meetings in a leadership role) lends a tiny bit of that insight. I can't imagine a reason Belichick would say that if he knew all along Cassel had it in him to be a franchise QB. It just doesn't compute. The only reason he strung those words together in that order is because part of his was surprised with Cassel's ability to improve and lead the team.

And Cassel's progression that season was out there for everyone to see. Everyone saw how he got a little better in every game. McDaniels himself has talked about that aspect in particular. And the only way you can do that (get better in the eyes of the beholder) is if the perception of you is that you need improvement.

Anyways, I'm sorry, but "never close to being cut" just doesn't make sense in this context, especially with the fact that our #2 QB right now is Brian Hoyer.

If Brady goes down and Hoyer becomes our starter, how do you think the situation will play out? Obviously the guy will have some fans, because he's put up some good things on tape, but like you said, it's mostly against inferior competition. So who will be honestly confident that he can get things done in Brady's absence? Considering that he is a rookie, and again hasn't really played against first-stringers, would it really make any sense to believe he can get this team anywhere as a starter?

And that being said, if Belichick felt like he could upgrade the backup QB position, why wouldn't he? In that respect, it's only logical to assume that there are many circumstances that could come up even in this season where Hoyer could actually be close to being cut, especially if he were forced to play and couldn't get it done. In some respects, you'd have to assume that Hoyer's job security is actually better than Cassel's was, because the Pats are only carrying 2 bonafide pocket passers and Hoyer hasn't had nearly the time in the system as Cassel has, so his mistakes could be assumed to be more 'correctable'.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

And my whole point is that there hasn't been any real insight into the decision-making process regarding that preseason from the team at all, until that small quote by Belichick.

And in my opinion, that quote (partly that Cassel didn't play 'all that great' in the preseason, and that he really came into his own once he started having gameplans tailored to his strengths and participating in meetings in a leadership role) lends a tiny bit of that insight. I can't imagine a reason Belichick would say that if he knew all along Cassel had it in him to be a franchise QB. It just doesn't compute. The only reason he strung those words together in that order is because part of his was surprised with Cassel's ability to improve and lead the team.

And Cassel's progression that season was out there for everyone to see. Everyone saw how he got a little better in every game. McDaniels himself has talked about that aspect in particular. And the only way you can do that (get better in the eyes of the beholder) is if the perception of you is that you need improvement.

Anyways, I'm sorry, but "never close to being cut" just doesn't make sense in this context

Actually, it does. While no one claimed to have known he would be a franchise QB, quite a few people never questioned that if given the chance he would indeed be a viable starting QB in this league. Including starting as Brady's backup if it came to that. That assessment was made on the body of his work here over 3 seasons and born out in the 4th.

"It hasn't surprised me. I've always believed in myself and I've surrounded myself with positive-thinking people,'' he said. "That's why a lot of times I don't watch the sports shows or listen to the radio because of that simple fact, that there's too many critics out there and if you listen to everybody's opinion, I think it works against you.''

The man whose opinion counts most believes in him. Coach Bill Belichick said Cassel needed a chance to play.

"I don't think anybody at the beginning of the year thought that, 'Oh, he just can't play,''' Belichick said. "There was some sentiment around about that outside this building, but I'm sure there wasn't any sense of that from the players or the coaches that worked with him.''

Or some of us here, albeit few...

I think it's pretty clear that Belichick is admitting he wasn't positive that he made the right decision about Cassel at first, and wasn't impressed with his preseason performance.

Just like the rest of us last year. Cassel surprised everybody, including his coach.

Your problem with reading into things is you read too much into them. Which is the exact same mistake the media made when they started the whole Cassel controversey heading into the 2008 season based on reading into someone in the organization commenting that they loved Gutierrez work ethic into they no longer loved Matt Cassel as Brady's backup and he in fact had regressed to one foot out the door...

 

[tobias funke]

Actually, it does. While no one claimed to have known he would be a franchise QB, quite a few people never questioned that if given the chance he would indeed be a viable starting QB in this league. Including starting as Brady's backup if it came to that. That assessment was made on the body of his work here over 3 seasons and born out in the 4th.

What does it make you think about a player when he's inserted into a game that is mostly in-hand, allowed two throws, one of which is an INT, and is immediately pulled again? Is that part of the 'body of work' you're talking about? What kind of conclusions are people supposed to draw about a guy after seeing that, and then having it followed up with a pretty mediocre preseason?

I'm not saying it's completely wrong to have believed in the guy, but neither does that mean it's very farfetched to believe that he hadn't shown much, outside of a decent quarter against a completely overmatched Redskins team in 2007.

Or some of us here, albeit few...

If they thought he "just couldn't play", he never would have lasted the first three years.

That doesn't change the fact that the NFL is about what you've done on the field. You can be great in practice, or even in preseason, but if the results don't come in a game that matters, it doesn't matter whether or not you 'can play'. You won't stick around. Belichick knows that as well as anyone.

Your problem with reading into things is you read too much into them. Which is the exact same mistake the media made when they started the whole Cassel controversey heading into the 2008 season based on reading into someone in the organization commenting that they loved Gutierrez work ethic into they no longer loved Matt Cassel as Brady's backup and he in fact had regressed to one foot out the door...

Two things. First, I did think (like Reiss) that the QB depth chart going into 2008 would be Brady and then Gutierrez/O'Connell in some order, but I wouldn't have been happy about it at all, and I don't think anyone else would have been. I wasn't super excited to head into the season with Cassel either, but when he wasn't cut, I said what I assume many other fans said: "if Belichick thinks he's worth keeping, then he is, and hopefully he knows something we don't."

Second, throughout 2008, O'Connell was the backup QB, putting us in a situation much like we're in now. Considering that O'Connell was gone before the start of this season, how happy do you think Belichick was about that? And how happy do you really think he is going into the heart of the season with another rookie as Brady's top backup?

Guys that may not necessarily be on the team in another circumstance stick around sometimes because there is no other option. Sometimes they get a chance to play and surprise everyone with what they're really capable of. Sometimes they get a chance to play and do absolutely nothing, just like everyone expects. Speculating as to who will fall into which category is fun, but there is nothing special about being 'right' or 'wrong', because it really doesn't mean you necessarily were thinking along the same lines of the team at all. That's really the impression that Belichick's quote gives me.

 

[eagle eye]

Just an interesting little stat I worked out.

In 4 games against top 4 rushing Ds, Maroney is averaging 4.7 ypc and 1 td.

Thats two games against the Jets who are no.2 against the run, and one game each against the Dolphins and Titans who are ranked 4th and 1st respectively against the run.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What does it make you think about a player when he's inserted into a game that is mostly in-hand, allowed two throws, one of which is an INT, and is immediately pulled again? Is that part of the 'body of work' you're talking about? What kind of conclusions are people supposed to draw about a guy after seeing that, and then having it followed up with a pretty mediocre preseason?

I thought he was rusty (kinda like Brady after missing a year...) and made a mistake against a defense that routinely even gives Brady fits coming in cold off the bench. I didn't see him have a pretty mediocre preseason, and neither did Bill and I think that is where the real disconnect for fans happened. I saw a guy doing what he was asked to do, run the system in preseason amidst a lot of veterans who were not exactly performing up to snuff themselves behind a patchwork OL facing first string opponents who tend to treat a matchup with us even in preseason like its...their superbowl.

I'm not saying it's completely wrong to have believed in the guy, but neither does that mean it's very farfetched to believe that he hadn't shown much, outside of a decent quarter against a completely overmatched Redskins team in 2007.

I guess maybe I have a better memory than some because he had shown me more including almost an entire game in his rookie season against a Miami team whose HC was treating it like a lot more than a mailed in season ender. After which I observed Bill chose to go with just two QB's on the roster even though one of them was Cassel (until he had an opportunity at the end of the season to add an old pal for the stretch run as #3 so he could play the mentor role and maybe have a kodak moment...). Then I saw him take a flyer on an UDFA as a potential developmental backup followed a year later by drafting another in the third round of a shallow draft he was not enamored with at a time when the prognosticators were predicting a relatively bare cupboard at the position entering the 2009 draft (unless some underclassment came out early which would not have interested him). What all this told me was Cassel would not be here after 2008 and Gutierrez might not either although I have long understood that BB longed to be able to cultivate the capacity to develop QB's as potential value trading chips.


If they thought he "just couldn't play", he never would have lasted the first three years.

There you go. And if they thought he sucked in comparison to Gutierrez or KOC he would have slid down the roster over the course of training camp and the preseason in 2008...only he didn't...

That doesn't change the fact that the NFL is about what you've done on the field. You can be great in practice, or even in preseason, but if the results don't come in a game that matters, it doesn't matter whether or not you 'can play'. You won't stick around. Belichick knows that as well as anyone.

Everyone should know that. But they should also know you can determined that prior to them appearing in the regular season as well as you can predict them advancing even when from a fan based perspective they aren't doing a damn thing to win in the preseason. If you know what you're looking for and at.


Two things. First, I did think (like Reiss) that the QB depth chart going into 2008 would be Brady and then Gutierrez/O'Connell in some order, but I wouldn't have been happy about it at all, and I don't think anyone else would have been. I wasn't super excited to head into the season with Cassel either, but when he wasn't cut, I said what I assume many other fans said: "if Belichick thinks he's worth keeping, then he is, and hopefully he knows something we don't."

Well, you thought wrong and you might have been better off not assuming something that clearly had not happened. I know as a paid professional, Mike certainly would have been better served not to. I knew Belichick felt he was worth keeping before he wasn't cut because he wasn't demoted all off season, either. And it was obvious to anyone who watched the way the practices went that Gutierrez was not performing well in any setting and was the one losing ground to a rookie because he was not developing beyond what we saw of him in the previous pre season.

Second, throughout 2008, O'Connell was the backup QB, putting us in a situation much like we're in now. Considering that O'Connell was gone before the start of this season, how happy do you think Belichick was about that? And how happy do you really think he is going into the heart of the season with another rookie as Brady's top backup?

I think he was fine with the situation in 2008 given the circumstances because he believed he had a guy who could play given the opportunity and he knew if push came to shove the rookie wouldn't be any worse as a last resort than any jag he could have added once the season commenced. Neither for that matter could Gutierrez be which is why he was brought back.

Guys that may not necessarily be on the team in another circumstance stick around sometimes because there is no other option. Sometimes they get a chance to play and surprise everyone with what they're really capable of. Sometimes they get a chance to play and do absolutely nothing, just like everyone expects. Speculating as to who will fall into which category is fun, but there is nothing special about being 'right' or 'wrong', because it really doesn't mean you necessarily were thinking along the same lines of the team at all. That's really the impression that Belichick's quote gives me.

It gives you that impression because that's what you want to believe. Guys don't stick around because there is no other option, they stick around until there is a better option. If they are of no use to him Bill moves on even if that creates a void in the roster because either way it's a wash and the roster spot can be filled with someone who can do something else that may help the team cover for that void or weakness.

Given Bill's track record, I have found over the years that while I still have the urge to criticize some of the moves Bill makes in the moment, there is far more to be learned in trying to figure out why he did it and understand it. I used to think if he had one failing it was in not treating his players with a little more TLC, particularly come contract time. Be proactive, throw 'em a bone. I eventually came to understand that he doesn't do that because even their behavior in those situations is a test here. He only wants guys who want to be here and win here enough to make sacrifices in order to and he only wants self motivitated players on his roster because he's got enough on his plate and that of his staff figuring out how to put these guys in a position to win without having to stroke them emotionally or financially, througout the process. And that is why Seymour and Samuel are no longer here.

Honestly, I for one don't try to portray myself as special compared to other posters on a message board because what difference would that make... I do, however, strive to decipher what BB is doing because I accept I am watching football genius at work. And who knows, maybe just a fraction of that will rub off on me if I am merely observant as opposed to critical. I'd much rather persue that incredible possibility than play armchair draft guru or GM vs. Bill or even some of the self proclaimed football geniuses posting here these days...

I think Bill is more disappointed that he has not been able to construct or scheme an OL that is equally adept at run and pass blocking in Brady's prime than he is that Maroney didn't turn out to be Adrian Peterson...at a 5th of the cost. Because he likely realizes that if he had he'd be holding out for a lot more money by now.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Except for the newly developed fumbleitis, Maroney had a solid game. Props to him. Hope he can keep it up. The good news is that mediocre performing RBs get resigned to mediocre contracts. So if we decide to keep Maroney it's not likely to cost a lot. I'm ok with Maroney as 2nd or 3rd string. I wouldn't mind an upgrade to the RB position in the draft though. Maroney is more of a Felix Jones complementary back. He's not a feature back but he can be a cog in the stable. Keep running hard young man. He seems to be getting a bit better week by week. And that's a good thing.

 

[stcjones]

3.5 YPC for 77 yards and some in here are getting hard-ons ...not quite ready to crown him an all-pro based on an above average and decent but Far from great performance yesterday.

Show me similar performances weeks in a row,then get back to me :snob:

amen.....good post

 

[BradyFTW!]

What's wrong with the OL? I thought they played extremely well yesterday even playing without 2 of their starters. Maroney ran very well yesterday. I think our running game as a whole will improve when we get Morris and Taylor back as well as Light and Neal. Maroney needs someone to compliment him, and BJGE is not that answer.

Weird- I'm one of the bigger Maroney fans that you'll find, but I wasn't enthralled by his performance on Sunday. Don't get me wrong, I thought that he did a pretty good job, but he's had much better performances this year. Considering that Neal was out, though, I'll bump it up some.