Heath Evans

[jczxohn1]

Three years from now, would you rather have Maroney and Evans or Maroney and Cobbs?

 

[mgteich]

I'd like Maroney and someone much better than Cobbs, another Maroney.

Three years from now, would you rather have Maroney and Evans or Maroney and Cobbs?

 

[arrellbee]

I'm watching Evans runs in the TD series that put the Pats up 27-0. Last night several people were bashing him for his efforts - what a bunch of pee pots! Golly gee whiz, some people will complain if the dollar bill they find on the ground is a 1 instead of a 5. Heath had some good 'no quite' running against a stacked defense. If BB wants a clock-killer to back up Dillon, instead of Cobbs as an understudy third down specialist, he isn't doing too badly to consider Evans.
:bricks:

OK. You think Beisel is solid and, if I read you correctly, you think Evans would be a better choice than Cobbs if the Pats were to keep one of them. Any other bubble players that you recommend ? - that's a genuine interest question, not some poke.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Come on guys can we get serious here for a minute.

Patrick Cobb's upside is Tiki Barber or Kevin Faulk redux.
Heath Evan's upside is Ron Dayne.

Ummm any questions?

I think if you're talking about keeping the best PLAYER then Cobbs makes the 53. There is no way you're going to convice me H. Evans has more talent or upside than Cobbs after what I've seen from them both.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

OK. You think Beisel is solid and, if I read you correctly, you think Evans would be a better choice than Cobbs if the Pats were to keep one of them. Any other bubble players that you recommend ? - that's a genuine interest question, not some poke.

Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear, I do not care to type "he sucks" and consider it an accurate assessment of a player's performance or value to the New England Patriots - my football team of choice. I don't ever recall writing that Beisel was solid; talented and improving yes, a player who has a lot of room for growth in the Belichick defensive system. Whether he can ever actually fill the role isn't my call or yours, as a fan who wants to understand the game and not just vent my spleen, I choose to look at what he does in the context of the game, which includes 21 other players on the field, and try to see what BB and Pees might be seeing - he is still on the club, I assume the coaches aren't doing it so they can look at his wife's picture in his locker everyday. If and when he gets cut, he's gone and I don't intend to obsess about him, there will be new players to analyze and cheer for.

Again, Cobbs vs. Evans was not the point of this thread, though some have sought to discuss that here. While in the chat room and catching up in the game thread afterward, there were people attacking Evans' running during the goal line series. I didn't get to see the game until the replay the next day, so I did not weigh in. Yesterday, watching that series on NFL Network, I was again irritated at the people who seemingly blindly attack a player's effort without any thought to the situation. Evans ran with effort, the kind people should appreciate. He got hit and didn't give up, the Redskins' players had to gang tackle him when he wasn't geting hit in the backfield because a lineman missed a block. His effort to get into the endzone on a one yard run was excellent, the kind of effort I want to see from a player fighting to make the roster. Whether he or Cobbs is the better fit for how BB puts the club together this year is an engaging discussion, it isn't helped by blindly typing 'he sucks' or equivalent.

mgteich and others have started roster threads, there you can discuss the relative merits of a smaller, quicker back verses a larger, slower back in terms of what you think the team structure will look like. Both have value to the club, it is extremely unlikely both will be kept. I have no problem with someone saying they prefer Cobbs because he may have Tiki Barber upside. I have no problem with someone saying they want Evans because he will wear down a defense more when BB starts grinding the game out to protect a lead. Both are valid viewpoints and worthy of discussion.

As far as "bubble" players and recommendations, every player that is currently on this roster has been working hard and trying to improve. For example: I can look at the play of an Eddie Freeman, whom I expect to get cut this time around, and tell you there is talent there, with further work he could be a servicable reserve DL in the system. But there are other young players, such as Santonio Thomas, who are ahead of him because Thomas (in this case) spent a year on the Practice Squad and has a better grasp of the 3-4, two gap techniques. He also has had the benefit of Woicik and Nash in the off-season program, as well as more film and classroom time with Pepper and Seymour and Warren and BB. Thomas is a hard cut, Freeman is an easier one because he is far behind the other "young" players who can grow and develop for a role in the system. LeKevin Smith is an easy cut because he is eligible for the Practice Squad, he should clear waivers with little trouble and be available to work with there. Sullivan is not an easy cut, neither is Klecko, both have value to the organization, neither is Practice Squad eligible. If I had to fill out the DL roster behind Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Green, and Wright, I'd choose Thomas and Sullivan, both are better suited for BB's 3-4, both played well or showed improvement in their playing techinique and their hustle. Klecko gets the pink slip because they have greater upside in the system, and I think there is a slightly better chance Klecko remains available on the shadow roster.

I hope that helps you understand what I am thinking as players are discussed and evaluated here.

 

[bucky]

Anybody who's watched the last 3 preseason games should have noticed the following:

1) Garret Mills is a great route runner, but has no idea how to play FB and he totally blows as a lead blocker at this point in his career.
2) Cobbs is a really good-looking runner, but can't block or pick up the blitz. That makes him unusable this year.
3) Evans plays ST, is a very good lead blocker and pass blocker, and can certainly run the ball if necessary.

I think Cobbs is looking at the PS. Mills will obviously make the team, but may see a lot of inactive duty early on in the season. Evans is on the bubble regardless of what happens to the other guys. His roster spor is really a factor of what happens at other positions, how much he can contribute on ST, and how close Pass is to coming back. But I do think Evans has more to contribute THIS year than either Mills or Cobbs.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Anybody who's watched the last 3 preseason games should have noticed the following:

1) Garret Mills is a great route runner, but has no idea how to play FB and he totally blows as a lead blocker at this point in his career.
2) Cobbs is a really good-looking runner, but can't block or pick up the blitz. That makes him unusable this year.
3) Evans plays ST, is a very good lead blocker and pass blocker, and can certainly run the ball if necessary.

I think Cobbs is looking at the PS. Mills will obviously make the team, but may see a lot of inactive duty early on in the season. Evans is on the bubble regardless of what happens to the other guys. His roster spor is really a factor of what happens at other positions, how much he can contribute on ST, and how close Pass is to coming back. But I do think Evans has more to contribute THIS year than either Mills or Cobbs.

The pro-Cobbs case - he has potential to be a Kevin Faulk replacement possibly with better up the middle running skils (but we don't need or want one now).

I have revised my outlook and think that BB will keep players who can perform well in December/January game conditions with playoffs on the line. That would be big back Evans.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Anybody who's watched the last 3 preseason games should have noticed the following:

1) Garret Mills is a great route runner, but has no idea how to play FB and he totally blows as a lead blocker at this point in his career.
2) Cobbs is a really good-looking runner, but can't block or pick up the blitz. That makes him unusable this year.
3) Evans plays ST, is a very good lead blocker and pass blocker, and can certainly run the ball if necessary.

I think Cobbs is looking at the PS. Mills will obviously make the team, but may see a lot of inactive duty early on in the season. Evans is on the bubble regardless of what happens to the other guys. His roster spor is really a factor of what happens at other positions, how much he can contribute on ST, and how close Pass is to coming back. But I do think Evans has more to contribute THIS year than either Mills or Cobbs.

I have to disagree on point 3, Evans remains a poor blocker, even if he is ahead of Mills blocking at this stage. Cobbs has actually done a better job of blitz pick-up than I expected, not Faulk by any means, but his guy rarely pressures Cassel, and he is getting the right guy.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Box, I sincerely hope you feel better now!

To use your analogy, Cedric Cobbs is the $20 bill that got lost in the laundry machine. I just saw a highlight of him running well for the Broncos. Chapman is the $5 bill that was swiped by the Colts. Evans is the $1 bill that we found under the car seat in desperation at the toll booth.

And to use your other analogy, what makes my pickle taste sour as all get out is the fact that Cobbs will most absolutely without any shadow of a doubt be poached from our Practice Squad in a flash after his good showing in the pre-season, just like Cobbs and Chapman were gobbled up. Not even a question that anybody who runs through would be tacklers for ten yards at a time in some instances and gets a couple touchdowns will be gone. Scrubs or no scrubs. There were scouts at all our games, and who has flashed more than Cobbs on offense this year amoung our back-ups?

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Dillon, Maroney, Faulk, and Mills are locks. That's 4 RBs (if you consider Mills a FB)

If the Patriots retain a 5th RB, it is between Evans and Cobbs (Pass is gone).

I think Cobbs is retained, but both are good players.

 

[flutie2phelan]

Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear, I do not care to type "he sucks" and consider it an accurate assessment of a player's performance or value to the New England Patriots - my football team of choice. I don't ever recall writing that Beisel was solid; talented and improving yes, a player who has a lot of room for growth in the Belichick defensive system. Whether he can ever actually fill the role isn't my call or yours, as a fan who wants to understand the game and not just vent my spleen, I choose to look at what he does in the context of the game, which includes 21 other players on the field, and try to see what BB and Pees might be seeing - he is still on the club, I assume the coaches aren't doing it so they can look at his wife's picture in his locker everyday. If and when he gets cut, he's gone and I don't intend to obsess about him, there will be new players to analyze and cheer for.

.... Yesterday, watching that series on NFL Network, I was again irritated at the people who seemingly blindly attack a player's effort without any thought to the situation. Evans ran with effort, the kind people should appreciate. He got hit and didn't give up, the Redskins' players had to gang tackle him when he wasn't geting hit in the backfield because a lineman missed a block. His effort to get into the endzone on a one yard run was excellent, the kind of effort I want to see from a player fighting to make the roster. Whether he or Cobbs is the better fit for how BB puts the club together this year is an engaging discussion, it isn't helped by blindly typing 'he sucks' or equivalent.

mgteich and others have started roster threads, there you can discuss the relative merits of a smaller, quicker back verses a larger, slower back in terms of what you think the team structure will look like. Both have value to the club, it is extremely unlikely both will be kept. I have no problem with someone saying they prefer Cobbs because he may have Tiki Barber upside. I have no problem with someone saying they want Evans because he will wear down a defense more when BB starts grinding the game out to protect a lead. Both are valid viewpoints and worthy of discussion.

.... I can look at the play of an Eddie Freeman, whom I expect to get cut this time around, and tell you there is talent there, with further work he could be a servicable reserve DL in the system. But there are other young players, such as Santonio Thomas, who are ahead of him because Thomas (in this case) spent a year on the Practice Squad and has a better grasp of the 3-4, two gap techniques. He also has had the benefit of Woicik and Nash in the off-season program, as well as more film and classroom time with Pepper and Seymour and Warren and BB. Thomas is a hard cut, Freeman is an easier one because he is far behind the other "young" players who can grow and develop for a role in the system. LeKevin Smith is an easy cut because he is eligible for the Practice Squad, he should clear waivers with little trouble and be available to work with there. Sullivan is not an easy cut, neither is Klecko, both have value to the organization, neither is Practice Squad eligible. If I had to fill out the DL roster behind Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Green, and Wright, I'd choose Thomas and Sullivan, both are better suited for BB's 3-4, both played well or showed improvement in their playing techinique and their hustle. Klecko gets the pink slip because they have greater upside in the system, and I think there is a slightly better chance Klecko remains available on the shadow roster.

So sensible ... balanced ... proportionate ... and clear !

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box, I sincerely hope you feel better now!

To use your analogy, Cedric Cobbs is the $20 bill that got lost in the laundry machine. I just saw a highlight of him running well for the Broncos. Chapman is the $5 bill that was swiped by the Colts. Evans is the $1 bill that we found under the car seat in desperation at the toll booth.

And to use your other analogy, what makes my pickle taste sour as all get out is the fact that Cobbs will most absolutely without any shadow of a doubt be poached from our Practice Squad in a flash after his good showing in the pre-season, just like Cobbs and Chapman were gobbled up. Not even a question that anybody who runs through would be tacklers for ten yards at a time in some instances and gets a couple touchdowns will be gone. Scrubs or no scrubs. There were scouts at all our games, and who has flashed more than Cobbs on offense this year amoung our back-ups?

It has been cathartic in the sense that I've been able see others who approach this with more thought beyond $^&^$*% when discussing a players relative worth.

Boy, I'd like to horse trade with you if that is how you develop an analogy! Cobbs a $20? Just when did he have this miracle run against the mighty Texicans? 1st half, 2nd? The Donkos 1st string was scratching hard to hold it to zero/zero when I turned it off.

Chapman hasn't gone anywhere in the Colts system that I've read; he would have been useful to us in 2005 when we lost RBs left and right, that doesn't rate him a $5 bill today.

Evans was a cheap signing who helped the team out midseason and was kept as a security blanket, he's still inexpensive, which is what I would pay a servicable reserve whom I expected to use primarily on Special Teams. I'm not cutting him because 'he sucks' (he doesn't), I'm not keeping him because he's the next feature back (he's not). I'm evaluating him on actual performance which was much better then portrayed. I value a dollar as a dollar, if I don't have a $20 in my wallet, I don't throw away the dollar I find there. Pissah made a point you might consider, which back brings more to the table mid-season and post-season? Or should BB PUP Pass, dump both Evans and Cobbs, and keep Mincey on the roster? Just don't tell me Evans sucks and is a 1 yd back, both are off the mark in discussing his value to the team.

 

[Ring 6]

Box,

Some fans want 53 probowlers on the roster, so any flawsin any player gets them villified. A young guy who looks like a star against guys who will be watching with us on Directv on Sundays flashes star potential. If it was about keeping the guys who would be stars if every teams best 40 players suddendly quit football, roster decisions would be very different.
Role players make winning football teams. The guy who can play a role but will never be a star starter, even against arena league guys doesnt look as good in garbage time, but will contribute 5-7 plays in a game, whether thats a special teams play, controlling his man in 2gap technique so someone else makes a tackle, lead blocking, or playing an underneath zone well even though 90% of the WRs would eat him alive in man coverage.
A team is made up of players who have all the skills at their position, others who have some and play a role, others who could develop into full time players but are strong in a role now, and the end of the bench that sees the field 5-10 plays and are good at the specific thing they must do in those spots.
Dont be frustrated. Ive seen Head Coaches and GMs who seem to be ignorant to these realities, much less fans.

By the way, the reason BB has habitually stayed away from high priced FAs is that many of them are aging players who are moving backward in this process....they were full time full skill players who are seeing some of their skills deteriorate and are becoming role players, yet are paid as if they were the best players in the league.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

I want Cobbs to get the chance to play against the first string defense in this next preseason game. It won't happen, however.

At this point, Evans appears to be a run of the mill FB, even below average by NFL standards. Cobbs could be much more, if he looks okay against a real defense. Cobbs doesn't need to play smashmouth to be good, just ask Brain Westbrook, Tiki Barber, Warrick Dunn or other guys that are elusive and quick and powerful. I AM NOT saying that Cobbs is going to be anything like those proven players, just that he has a potential upside which I believe exceeds Evans by far. Evans is what he is, and no more. No amount of training will ever allow him to run like Cobbs does already.

Maybe Cobbs is stout and elusive enough to get that tough yard that Faulk can't seem to get. Evans is going to get gang tackled no matter what, because he is not quick or elusive or particularily talented.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Role players. Interestingly old vet Seau in a TV interview said his objective was to learn his ROLE whatever it was and then ensure that he performed his specific role at a top echelon level for the team.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box,

Some fans want 53 probowlers on the roster, so any flawsin any player gets them villified. A young guy who looks like a star against guys who will be watching with us on Directv on Sundays flashes star potential. If it was about keeping the guys who would be stars if every teams best 40 players suddendly quit football, roster decisions would be very different.
Role players make winning football teams. The guy who can play a role but will never be a star starter, even against arena league guys doesnt look as good in garbage time, but will contribute 5-7 plays in a game, whether thats a special teams play, controlling his man in 2gap technique so someone else makes a tackle, lead blocking, or playing an underneath zone well even though 90% of the WRs would eat him alive in man coverage.
A team is made up of players who have all the skills at their position, others who have some and play a role, others who could develop into full time players but are strong in a role now, and the end of the bench that sees the field 5-10 plays and are good at the specific thing they must do in those spots.
Dont be frustrated. Ive seen Head Coaches and GMs who seem to be ignorant to these realities, much less fans.

By the way, the reason BB has habitually stayed away from high priced FAs is that many of them are aging players who are moving backward in this process....they were full time full skill players who are seeing some of their skills deteriorate and are becoming role players, yet are paid as if they were the best players in the league.

Amen AJ, just taking my turn jousting at windmills, can't let you have all the fun. :rocker:

 

[PatsFan37]

I have to disagree on point 3, Evans remains a poor blocker, even if he is ahead of Mills blocking at this stage. Cobbs has actually done a better job of blitz pick-up than I expected, not Faulk by any means, but his guy rarely pressures Cassel, and he is getting the right guy.

First, I wanted to bump this thread, it's a real good one and Box, you had a good clarifying statement on evaluating players earlier that's a good read.

Second, if you want to know why Evans is considered a good blocker, it's because, at least in this article, the media doesn't look beyond the width of his shoulders:

Exhibition stats often carry a man about as far as a paper airplane, and Cobbs knows he's not making this team ahead of veterans Corey Dillon and Kevin Faulk or first-round pick Laurence Maroney. And he may not make it ahead of fullback Heath Evans, a good blocker who is also strong on special teams.

On Evans, I don't think he makes the team, though your points are well taken. He did show up in the first Miami game last year, but not since then in the NFL. As far as Cobbs, he's looking good, but people forget how good Chapman looked last year against 2nd stringers.

It's not only the lack of quality of 2nd stringers in stopping the run, it's that a defense needs experience working together in game situations to stop an agile runner. We don't know how Cobbs will look against a 1st string defense where the holes are small and close quickly and the edges are sealed.

Dillon may not have gained many yards on most of his first quarter runs Saturday, but does anyone think those second stringers would have stopped him after 2 or 3 yards in the fourth quarter?

 

[CrazyDave]

Can't say I have much to contribute to this thread, except Cobbs / Evans is one of the most interesting situations going.
I like them both. I can't see them losing Cobbs after what he has shown, but Evans runs hard, and has some value as well.
I'm curious as to how this plays out.
Oh, Mills does'nt block very well at this point as someone pointed out.
.02 cents.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

Sure he can, and he may be the next "Little" Joe Morris or Tiki Barber, but he could also be another Kevin Faulk, who can also pound it up inside, just not always with the results we like. Dillon, Maroney, Evans, and Pass are all better suited for that role if needed. I'd rather groom Cobbs as another third down specialist and have him surprise defenses with an occasional inside run, and extend his career for the betterment of the team - if he makes the cut.

That's the way I feel. With Cobbs size, he seems like the perfect 3rd down back (like Faulk). Evans is a hard runner, but is really a true FB. I feel we'd be better off with Cobbs, since we're keep 4 TE's (that includes Mills).

 

[shmessy]

Who says we have to give any of them up until week 6?

I'd like to see Cobbs, Evans and Mills all make the team next week, with Pass on the PUP.

Mills can be called our very versatile 4th TE.

We have only 2 QB's , saving a spot.

We could have just 4 WR's, saving a spot. (Great TE's and ball catching RB's help us here).

Therefore Dillon, Maroney, Faulk, Cobbs and Evans make the team. Cobbs and Evans then vy in an extended tryout Death Match for the first 6 weeks until the decision has to be made when (if) Pass is ready to come back.