Has PATs defense been dismantled?

[AzPatsFan]

I still believe that we are running the 3-4 2-gap for another year. I just don't think that diminishing the value of the best 3-4 NT in football is a good idea. And my only issues are cutting Seymour and not signing another ILB. If we sign a backup veteran ILB like Lenon after Monday, then I'm fine.

4-3
Belichick knows that he can always find backup safeties, as he has for years. The #34 pick in the draft is not needed for a backup unless he is very, very special (and perhaps Chung is).

If McKenzie is projected to be our future 4-3 OLB starter, then indeed Belichick was a genius to be able to get him so late in third, and that's fine. At the time, everyone had him as an ILB (and therefore a major project).

There were many top OLB and OLB/DE prospects available in the 2nd. Certainly Sintim stands out, but there were others. Is the bottom line that Belichick was fine with Woods and Banta-Cain until McKenzie and Crable develop? Perhaps. Also, McKenzie was picked at the bottom of the 3rd. He was the last of the top OLB's. The rest were drafted in the 1st and 2nd. Was Belichick so satisfied with Woods and Banta-Cain that it was OK to risk not to get 2009 OLB help by waiting until #97 to draft a prospect? I suspect so.

MGT,

You have forgotten the second part of BB's often stated dictum,...We take college DEs and make them 3-4 OLBs.... and... we take college OLBs and make them 3-4 ILBs. The only reason that there is not more but very good,young, ILB depth is that Ty McKensie is on IR.

 

[Patspsycho]

Yes our D was dismantled (what was left to it) and thank god it happened. Our D the last few years has been on a steady DECLINE. It had to be addressed.

IF we had kept all of last years D (or as much as possible) we would probably start off stronger on D this season, more unified than we will with our newly reformed D.

HOWEVER as the season progresses, I think our reformed, faster, younger, fresher D will gel and perform as a unit, improving overall , week by week. I do not expect it to meet or exceed out 2003 and/or 2004 D, but I do think we will be peaking at the end of the season and into the playoffs, the time when Offense starts to slow down a bit due to the weather, wear and tear, etc... and this is when we'll need our D to be it's best.

The D this year will start off finding it's way, making mistakes and learning from them. By the time all is said and done this season, I think we will see a considerable improvement not only compared to the beginning of this season, but also compared to 2008 and 2007, at least.

This year our D will be firing on all cylinders by weeks 15, 16, 17 and on, whereas the last few years our D was limping by week 8 and replaced by week 12 by mid season JAGs who were in turn limping in by week 14.

For the last 3 years many fans and the media have been harping about the NEP aging, ancient defense. So now it's revamped, remolded and reborn. and now the same media and many of the same fans are freaking out because we've "dismantled" our (once great) D.

Amen to that sir.

 

[mayoclinic]

:

Yes our D was dismantled (what was left to it) and thank god it happened. Our D the last few years has been on a steady DECLINE. It had to be addressed.

IF we had kept all of last years D (or as much as possible) we would probably start off stronger on D this season, more unified than we will with our newly reformed D.

HOWEVER as the season progresses, I think our reformed, faster, younger, fresher D will gel and perform as a unit, improving overall , week by week. I do not expect it to meet or exceed out 2003 and/or 2004 D, but I do think we will be peaking at the end of the season and into the playoffs, the time when Offense starts to slow down a bit due to the weather, wear and tear, etc... and this is when we'll need our D to be it's best.

The D this year will start off finding it's way, making mistakes and learning from them. By the time all is said and done this season, I think we will see a considerable improvement not only compared to the beginning of this season, but also compared to 2008 and 2007, at least.

This year our D will be firing on all cylinders by weeks 15, 16, 17 and on, whereas the last few years our D was limping by week 8 and replaced by week 12 by mid season JAGs who were in turn limping in by week 14.

For the last 3 years many fans and the media have been harping about the NEP aging, ancient defense. So now it's revamped, remolded and reborn. and now the same media and many of the same fans are freaking out because we've "dismantled" our (once great) D.

:youtheman::youtheman::agree:

Beautifully said. Thank God the 2005-2008 defense has been dismantled. The defense is dead ... long live the defense. By December, if not sooner, the defense should be clicking on all cylinders and should be a major upgrade.

 

[olschool]

After the ball squirting through his hands, for the int., that we all knew was coming, in the game that shall not be mentioned ;
I hope that everyone can finally stop referring to that mediocre tackling, malcontent, money grubbing, so-called defensive back, Samuel, as someone who we should miss. I'm glad he's long gone, and even gladder that his baby brother, Hobbs, is gone with him. They were the star cornerbacks in one of the worst pass defenses in Patriots history.

Sorry, I can't blame the " system ", they just plain stunk out the joint.

This years group has no choice but to be better, they couldn't possibly be worse; And if they are bad, it will just be more of the same, journeyman quarterbacks playing Marino, all over the field.

 

[BradyFTW!]

After the ball squirting through his hands, for the int., that we all knew was coming, in the game that shall not be mentioned ;
I hope that everyone can finally stop referring to that mediocre tackling, malcontent, money grubbing, so-called defensive back, Samuel, as someone who we should miss. I'm glad he's long gone, and even gladder that his baby brother, Hobbs, is gone with him. They were the star cornerbacks in one of the worst pass defenses in Patriots history.

Sorry, I can't blame the " system ", they just plain stunk out the joint.

This years group has no choice but to be better, they couldn't possibly be worse; And if they are bad, it will just be more of the same, journeyman quarterbacks playing Marino, all over the field.

This year's group can't possibly be worse than Asante? Asante was a pro bowl cornerback. I don't like him either, but trying to claim that he isn't a good football player is just stupid.

 

[shmessy]

When over half of your defense is new starters, it ain't the same defense.

That was the goal that most everyone in New England was clamoring for the last few years, so yes, "overhaul" is an accurate term.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Box_O_Rocks
Another factor to consider is communications.
-- Sanders and Meriweather were really clicking toward the end of last season, they are picking up from that point and will be playing at a higher level before we even realize it. rebuttal - The problem is that they are both average NFL starters so they can have the best communication in the world but that will only mask their deficiencies You see average, I see Meriweather growing as a player and a playmaker. He has the freedom to be more of a playmaker because James Sanders is so dependable as a deep man and as a Field Marshall.

Brace is a clear upgrade behind LDE and NT over Green/Wright. rebuttal - Really? later this the post you mention Green as an upgrade over Seymour, so without playing a snap Brace is better than Seymour, Green and Wright. Wright has proven to be pretty effective, I would take him over a rookie. Yes, really. Double-check your reading comprehension my friend. Green, at 4-3 DE, is NOT a drop-off from Seymour - he's quicker and faster off the edge. In that "one" assignment Green is at least as good, note I did not rate him an upgrade over Seymour in any assignment, but I also don't consider him a significant drop-off, especially with Wright to spell him.

Seymour was NOT Ty Warren's and Vince Wilfork's back-up, Mike Wright and Le Kevin Smith were. Brace is stronger against the run - based on preseason - than either of those two. Wright was a servicable reserve NT, but last season he struggled playing LDE and Smith moved ahead of him when Warren got injured. Brace playing head-up on the RT is going to be tough to run on, tougher than Wright. Brace playing head-up on the C is stronger than Wright, yes, based only on pre-season, but those 35+ extra pounds make a real difference in that role - he's never played a snap in the regular season, but neither had Mayo before he started last season, he was the right choice then, I'm confident Brace is a stronger run stuffer than Wright, who is now freed up to rotate with Green at his strongest position and to be a force on passing downs.

Green/Wright may be considered a downgrade from Seymour, but spelling each other keeps the position fresher and both are much better suited for the RDE role than the other two positions. The drop-off is actually pretty slight.

Playing Wilfork as a 3-tech, or using Vince and Pryor/Wright (when healthy) to disrupt the interior is a clear upgrade in the 4-3. Brace is no downgrade as a NT in this formation. rebuttal - Really? Yes, in the 4-3 Seymour was being used on the edge at DE, BB now has a stronger rotation inside with three strong penetrators and Brace, who can be a good anchor.

Green as a DE in the 4-3 is not a downgrade from Seymour. rebuttal - Seymour is a 5 time probowler, 6'6, 310 pounds, Green is a spot backup that has been practically invisible since the 2003 AFC Championship. So invisible he's had 7.5 and 6.5 sacks in the two of the last three years. His drop-off last year was a result of injury - and lest we forget - Sey has been pounded on plenty by this forum for production drop-off when he is injured. Green was Seymour's primary replacement in 2007 when Sey was rehabbing, that wasn't too bad a season for the Pats.

Sorry, I have to play a gigantic BS card, I hope you don't mind, my comments are in bold. I hope and expect the defense to gel and improve as the season progresses, maybe they are better than last year but the defense was terrible last year, the question is will this unit be effective enough to compete against the best teams in the NFL once the playoffs begin. No one knows the answer yet, but in the end it comes down to who plays the best not who is the best. If things go well the defense will only have to play 1 or 2 outstanding games to make the Superbowl, once there anything can happen.

Well, I do mind you misreading my remarks in a couple places, time to polish the bifocals.

Others have pointed out this defense is all on paper, but that's not exactly true - preseason may not be the best time to assess team defense, but you can get a pretty good idea concerning individual play. Brace and Pryor are the real deal, how and where they will be used is still open, but there's no doubt they will be used.

Rodney Harrison and Tedy Bruschi are now part of the media and both are talking up their successors, Sanders/Meriweather and Mayo/Guyton. Perhaps that's just loyalty, but Rodney has been supportive of Sanders before he retired and BB paid out an average of $3M/year to show a little support of his own. Mayo is now a defensive Captain - that's what his teammates think of him.

The Seymour trade is a done deal, the prospects for this defense apparently looked good enough for BB to make the trade. Looking at things as objectively as I can, I'm not too disturbed by this trade. The kids in this defense looked good individually in preseason, BB apparently thought so too.