Goodell publicly admits Deflategate litigation is about control, not PSI

[Ivan]

Kraft apologists take note.
Yet to hear ANYTHING from the owner as the NYJFL escalates its attacks on the franchise & Brady.

Agree completely, the Patriots need to respond forcefully to this, hopefully the silence is because they are crafting the response.

 

[Marko]

the issue isn't that there are too many rules, the issue is that goodell overstepped his bounds and was wildly inconsistent regarding enforcement.

Exactly, and he's only proving Berman right when he now claims that the issue is not about Brady. How can he deny Brady's appeal that he was treated in an unfair manner, when he tells everyone now that he has an agenda! An agenda to maintain the power that he is abusing already!

 

[woolster22]

Note also that in the case involving the Vikings DC, Gunther Cunningham, he was discussing looking forward to the Chiefs cuts. He didn't even mention any players by name, and was still sanctioned with the loss of a pick and was forced to swap another.

Woody Johnson specifically mentioned a player, under contract to another team, by name, and then started discussing contract numbers.

Truly outrageous and the lack of punishment reeks of bias.

I don't see how any honest observer can argue otherwise.

When Mike Greenberg was asked about it on M&M, he mentioned he was happy to have Revis as a Rats fan, and then went off on a tangent discussing how rich Woody Johnson was, while dodging the issue of the insulting lack of punishment entirely.

And the briggs (?) scenario involved trade talks and a miscommunication over wetter they could contact him to discuss an extension. When you get into the details it's even more appalling.

The thing that really stands out is frame gate was set in motion ON THE SAME DAY that Kraft formally filed a complaint with the league.

Hush, hush folks, because integrity.

 

[Observer]

I think Goodell is playing to three segments of the Owners, the one audience about which he gives a hoot.

1) A small minority of Owners with an IQ above room temperature, who have nothing against the Patriots, who understand that there was no "deflation" and that the investigation was a sham, but who want him to preserve what they view as the power they invested in the Commissioner, no matter how arbitrarily he might use it.

2) Another small minority with a measurable IQ, who have nothing personally against the Patriots, who don't know whether the Pats broke the rules but who think that the Commissioner's power to discipline them should be upheld.

3) The vast majority of Owners who have it in for the Patriots and want him to go after them on any pretense, who actually believe that the Pats "deflated" those footballs and who want him to go after the Pats in the name of preserving the power they invested in the Commissioner, but for whom the latter is secondary to their primary goal of getting the Pats.

You forgot those that don't believe the Pats did anything wrong but would get great satisfaction from seeing them labeled as cheaters and punished anyway. This category is probably the majority of the haters.

 

[borisman]

I can't see how the NFLPA can look at what Goodell is doing and not letting this be one of the biggest negotiating points when this CBA expires. And I don't get why some people say the players will have to give something back to get something. WHAT?! For what?!

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Brady I have one thing to say, "finish the game".

 

[BradyFTW!]

The Pats having BB and TFB, and dominating what Roger doesn't want dominated, is literally the only thing keeping me interested in the NFL* at all, and I will walk away from the NFL* when they are gone.

There have already been times during this potentially historic Pats season, that I have felt my interest wane.

I won't be able to devote any of my time in an entity that I do not respect, and cannot be sure is even being played on a level playing field.

On Monday night, during the second drive of the game I realized I just didn't care what happened and switched to watching Simpsons reruns. It was the first time I've watched something else when an NFL game was on in at least a decade.

 

[upstater1]

It's OK to try to ruin someone's reputation by comparing them to the Black Sox, if your concerns are procedural.

Integrity. Ethics. Morality. Everyone in the media agrees we must uphold these. The owners agree. Bob Kraft agrees.

By all means, no one denounce the slandering of someone to preserve procedures. Because that would not be ethical.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't know if its been mentioned yet but goodell likens this to the Blacksox scandal of 1919. I posted in jest that goody was making this sound like the black sox scandal, but i never thought it could be true. Apparently its true.


"As you can see in the sample above, the league makes the argument that its "success depends on its integrity and the public's confidence that its games are fair." The NFL then uses the Black Sox scandal as an example of what happens when "those core values are diminished."

Of course, there are a few key differences between the scandals, namely that the NFL does not have definitive proof that Brady deflated the footballs below the NFL's allowed PSI level. During the Black Sox Scandal, two of the players under investigation confessed. "

NFL appeal in Tom Brady case likens Deflategate to 1919 Black Sox scandal - CBSSports.com

If they want to go down this road in comparing this to the Black Sox Scandal, bring it!

A Chicago Grand Jury acquitted all 8 players but Landis decided that it would be bad for the league's image to allow them back in so he banished them.

It was also rumored that Sox owner Charles Comiskey who was in debt at the time was in on the fix. It also rumored that he was trying to reduce payroll and had lobbied Landis to ban the players so he could get them off his payroll.

Because Shoeless Joe was unable to afford an attorney, Comiskey appointed him one- a clear conflict of interest.

Eventually it was proven that Shoeless Joe Jackson never accepted the $5,000 from teammates and gamblers. In the 1919 World Series he hit .375 which led all players and also recorded the most number of put outs.

Tom Brady = Shoeless Joe Jackson

Too bad Shoeless Joe didn't have the MLBPA and Greg Kessler back then. Otherwise he'd be in Cooperstown. Such a shame.

 

[memento]

I can't see how the NFLPA can look at what Goodell is doing and not letting this be one of the biggest negotiating points when this CBA expires. And I don't get why some people say the players will have to give something back to get something. WHAT?! For what?!

There were crazy stories about Goodell storming out of negotiations in the last CBA talks. He also agreed to a joke interview with Zach Galifinakus then backed out when he couldn't get them to cut the jokes. Goodell is a man that would watch everything burn instead of acting in good faith.

Fortunately, if the courts uphold the law the NFLPA can still retain basic labor rights without negotiating for them.

 

[memento]

If they want to go down this road in comparing this to the Black Sox Scandal, bring it!

A Chicago Grand Jury acquitted all 8 players but Landis decided that it would be bad for the league's image to allow them back in so he banished them.

It was also rumored that Sox owner Charles Comiskey who was in debt at the time was in on the fix. It also rumored that he was trying to reduce payroll and had lobbied Landis to ban the players so he could get them off his payroll.

Because Shoeless Joe was unable to afford an attorney, Comiskey appointed him one- a clear conflict of interest.

Eventually It was proven that Shoeless Joe Jackson never accepted the $5,000 from teammates and gamblers. IN the 1919 World Series he hit .375 which led all players and also recorded the most number of put outs.

Tom Brady = Shoeless Jackson

Too bad Shoeless Joe didn't have the MLBPA and Greg Kessler back then. Otherwise he'd be in Cooperstown. Such a shame.

The whole scandal happened before there was CBAs and labor rights. It's an entirely different era of law. It's a bizarre reference to make. They didn't even reference it directly, they referenced the movie Eight Men Out.

And the most puzzling aspect: Clements references the 1919 World Series Scandal along with the other major sports leagues as an example of why the commissioner needs unfettered arbitration powers while the NFL is the only league that doesn't mandate a neutral arbitrator!

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

If I am Brady, I am strongly considering a defamation lawsuit. This further evidence of malice. The NFL is upping the rhetoric without evidence of Brady's involvement in Deflategate for the sole purpose to make his deeds justify their actions to win back control. It is tough to prove malice in a celebrity defamation case, but the NFL is doing their best to give Brady all the evidence he needs.

"malice
n. a conscious, intentional wrongdoing either of a civil wrong like libel (false written statement about another) or a criminal act like assault or murder, with the intention of doing harm to the victim. This intention includes ill-will, hatred or total disregard for the other's well-being. Often the mean nature of the act itself implies malice, without the party saying "I did it because I was mad at him, and I hated him," which would be express malice. Malice is an element in first degree murder. In a lawsuit for defamation (libel and slander) the existence of malice may increase the judgment to include general damages. Proof of malice is absolutely necessary for a "public figure" to win a lawsuit for defamation."

Goodell's isn't stupid enough to publicly express any ill will toward Brady and the Patriots but the wildly disparate way he administers punishment to the Patriots vs. how he treats other players/clubs should be enough to infer malice. IMO

 

[RobertWeathers]

The whole scandal happened before there was CBAs and labor rights. It's an entirely different era of law. It's a bizarre reference to make. They didn't even reference it directly, they referenced the movie Eight Men Out.

And the most puzzling aspect: Clements references the 1919 World Series Scandal along with the other major sports leagues as an example of why the commissioner needs unfettered arbitration powers while the NFL is the only league that doesn't mandate a neutral arbitrator!

Typical NFL....shooting from the hip and not being thoughtful in it's argument.

The movie was actually based the 1963 book "Eight Men Out" which was eventually proven to be mostly false but it is a good read.

Comiskey was cheaper than cheap. The owner in "The Natural" was loosely based on a combination of Landis and Comiskey..."The Judge"

What is also accurate was that during his negotiations to become commissioner, Kennesaw Mountain Landis insisted on having absolute power and unlimited authority over players and owners.

Sound familiar?

 

[Rob0729]

"malice
n. a conscious, intentional wrongdoing either of a civil wrong like libel (false written statement about another) or a criminal act like assault or murder, with the intention of doing harm to the victim. This intention includes ill-will, hatred or total disregard for the other's well-being. Often the mean nature of the act itself implies malice, without the party saying "I did it because I was mad at him, and I hated him," which would be express malice. Malice is an element in first degree murder. In a lawsuit for defamation (libel and slander) the existence of malice may increase the judgment to include general damages. Proof of malice is absolutely necessary for a "public figure" to win a lawsuit for defamation."

Goodell's isn't stupid enough to publicly express any ill will toward Brady and the Patriots but the wildly disparate way he administers punishment to the Patriots vs. how he treats other players/clubs should be enough to infer malice. IMO

If the evidence he has says that at most Brady did was being generally aware and Goodell knows that is probably the most he did. By say Brady was the mastermind of a cheating scandal for the purpose to make him look more guilty than he actually is to push his agenda, that is malice. The hard part is proving it.

I firmly that Goodell and the League have reached the standard of defamation of a celebrity. I do not know though if Brady could prove he reached that level. Those are two different things.

 

[Marko]

The whole scandal happened before there was CBAs and labor rights. It's an entirely different era of law. It's a bizarre reference to make. They didn't even reference it directly, they referenced the movie Eight Men Out.

And the most puzzling aspect: Clements references the 1919 World Series Scandal along with the other major sports leagues as an example of why the commissioner needs unfettered arbitration powers while the NFL is the only league that doesn't mandate a neutral arbitrator!

The HUGE difference is that the Black Sox players tried to lose, even if Brady was guilty he would have had all intentions of competing to win, not even close!

 

[vyrago]

Typical NFL....shooting from the hip and not being thoughtful in it's argument.

The movie was actually based the 1963 book "Eight Men Out" which was eventually proven to be mostly false but it is a good read.

Comiskey was cheaper than cheap. The owner in "The Natural" was loosely based on a combination of Landis and Comiskey..."The Judge"

What is also accurate was that during his negotiations to become commissioner, Kennesaw Mountain Landis insisted on having absolute power and unlimited authority over players and owners.

Sound familiar?

Sounds like Paul Ryan.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

If the evidence he has says that at most Brady did was being generally aware and Goodell knows that is probably the most he did. By say Brady was the mastermind of a cheating scandal for the purpose to make him look more guilty than he actually is to push his agenda, that is malice. The hard part is proving it.

I firmly that Goodell and the League have reached the standard of defamation of a celebrity. I do not know though if Brady could prove he reached that level. Those are two different things.

Plus, discovery could reveal a smoking gun in the form of an email by Goodell saying something dumb like "let's get this prick!"

 

[upstater1]

The good thing is that this is an opportunity for someone like Kessler to take down a bigwig like the former solicitor general. I know Kessler is renowned in sports and labor law, but his opponents in this case are above his level. This is the make or break case of a lifetime for him, and even better, he has the Berman-head-start. Way for him to burnish his credentials. So he better come out firing--and if he somehow loses this--WOAH!

 

[Rob0729]

The good thing is that this is an opportunity for someone like Kessler to take down a bigwig like the former solicitor general. I know Kessler is renowned in sports and labor law, but his opponents in this case are above his level. This is the make or break case of a lifetime for him, and even better, he has the Berman-head-start. Way for him to burnish his credentials. So he better come out firing--and if he somehow loses this--WOAH!

I don't think Kessler will handle the appeal. He doesn't do that type of law.

Most likely it will be David Boies, famous for arguing Bush v. Gore in front of Supreme Court (Gore's side) and represented the NFLPA in court during the lockout. He is the NFLPA's go to guy on appeals.

Boies is a great attorney, but his track record isn't as good as Kessler's.

 

[TommyD4207]

The good thing is that this is an opportunity for someone like Kessler to take down a bigwig like the former solicitor general. I know Kessler is renowned in sports and labor law, but his opponents in this case are above his level. This is the make or break case of a lifetime for him, and even better, he has the Berman-head-start. Way for him to burnish his credentials. So he better come out firing--and if he somehow loses this--WOAH!

The NFL seems to be infatuated with lawyers how are famous for losing.

Wells, of course, lost the Scooter Libby case. Clement is fresh off of SCOTUS losses (favorable courts to his position, presumably) with Obamacare and DOMA. Pash will soon be known as "The guy who lost the Brady case".

Throw all the losers you can to beat the winners. Sounds like the Rest of the NFL vs. the New England Patriots.