Wow--I happen to have a disagreement in views with most of the folks on this board about Spygate and your team and have been honest about that. In fact, I was once banned here under another name for simply asking the question when the story first broke and Walsh said in the NYT that "there are things that no one has taken responsibility for yet", "is anyone here concerned about this"? That's literally pretty much all I wrote and I got banned. It was an honest question in that I wanted to see what people here thought, yet I was banned and shouted down in very short order, in some cases by folks who said all of this would come to nothing in short order--it still might come to nothing, but I think we can all agree that it's been no short order.
This story interests me, as it does indeed raise and potentially reinforce some of my pre-existing suspicions, so where better to discuss it than a Pats board? I've learned a few things from some of the posters here (VAPats comes to mind), since I don't believe, nor have I ever stated, that anyone here knows what the "truth" on this matter is and perhaps we'll never find out. While I'm no fan of your team or coach, after reading many of the posts here on this topic I still think I keep much more of an open mind on this than most posters here--you're fans of the Pats mainly so you're entitled to have those views certainly, but it's the absolute puritannical certainty of them in the face of contradictory evidence that I find odd. As some of you may note, I've gone on the record stating I think there's about a 70% chance that Walsh let his mouth overload his butt in talking to the press last winter and will have nothing new of interest, but I do think there's a 30% chance he has something you all won't be happy about in a week's time. For those of you saying it's a 0% chance, I just don't see how you can say that from where all of us sit.
To the gentleman above who hopes your team passes even more when they're up on us 48-0 next season, the fact that your team and coach already did similar things last year (that Washington game comes to mind--I actually don't blame you for the 56-10 butt kicking of us last year, as you did actually show some restraint in that one) is one reason why your team is pretty universally disliked outside its immediate fanbase and remember, what goes around comes around. When it does, I'll try to remain classy and not come here to rub it in (like I did by staying away after your SB loss), but posters like you make that a hard impulse to resist. And for all you folks who say that that's just natural, all dominant teams are universally hated, I'd have to disagree on that. Other than perhaps the Cowboys, I can't think of another dynasty (and yes, I'd say this Pats team qualifies as a dynasty) that created this reaction in other fans--did folks hate the '60s Packers or the '70s Steelers? I doubt the former and can vouch for a "no" on the latter, as I lived through that myself.
I don't come here to start fights, but as noted above, I enjoy talking football and I find this topic in particular to be interesting, figuring you all would most likely have the most up to date and informed views on this topic. It's too bad that there's no room at all here for an honest discussion of these points with people with an opposing view......
NOOOOOOOO...... sir you did not say that you are "curious" or "interested". You are not asking "honest questions to see what we thought".
You are saying you dislike our team (which is fine) and hope that bad stuff comes out about the franchise to basically please you as a Buffalo fan. Let me quote what you said, that I took you to task over.....
"What do I hope will happen? Personally, as someone who really doesn't care for your team much, and who suspects that your coach and organization are capable of a lot worse than what they've been charged with so far, I'd like to see Walsh have some of what I suspect has really been going on at Gillette and I'd like to see that made public and, if that happens, your team and coached punished appropriately for that and, if there is a lot there, I'd like to see Kraft's and the other big market owner's lapdog Goodell go as well. Will that happen? We'll now see--something that many of you said would never happen just a couple short weeks ago..... "
End quote.
Does that statement jive at all with what you have just said in response? Absolutely not. If you feel that way, then say it, stand by it, and be prepared to hear the other side of the story. Don't back down and try to back out of what you said. What you said is perfectly fine as your opinion, but either stand by it or take it back after reading what others have wrote and becoming more informed. Don't just tuck your tail between your legs and try to cover up the inflamatory remarks you made, while forgetting that we can just go back and read them.
Well again, I think I have shown that I am not trying to smash you or your franchise because I am a fan of the opposition. I respect your right to your opinion however irrational it is. But at least stick to it or admit you were wrong or at least went overboard.
Let me also give you my opinion on blowing out opponents. Personally If my team loses, I don't care if its by 1 point or being blown out of the stadium. WE STILL LOST! I would honestly rather have been blown away by the Giants in the superbowl, than be beat by 3 points. I would not be left with a lifetime of singling out plays and officials calls and wondering "what if". Being blown out should tell you more about your own team than the ones beating you to a pulp. It pretty much shows you that you need serious work in all phases of the game, and gives you plenty of stuff to take away, that will make you better in the long run.
My old Kenpo Sensei used to say "you never learn anything from winning, you only learn from losing, and when you get your @ss handed to you, you learn it quickly".
Need an example to back up that theory? O.K. here's one that should hit you where you sleep.
Harken back to the first game of the 2003 season. The Patriots go to Buffalo and get slapped around to the tune of a 38-0 LOSS to the Bills. Flash forward to the last game of the season, 13 wins later, and we watch the Pats cornhole the Bills to the tune of a 38-0 WIN! Making it a glorious 14-2 season which ended in a Superbowl title. So from the bottom of my heart......Thank You Bills!
You beat us
badly, We learned
quickly and went on to an historic season. From the exact reversal of 38-0 scores, it would seem to indicate that since we lost, we learned, and from that victory, you learned nothing.
So what if we left our starters in?! the other team not only learns from their mistakes, but in a blowout it gives them an opportunity to get their backups valuable playing time against starting caliber opponents. But alas no... the other teams still left their starters in. I guess it made a ton of sense to leave starters in, in a losing effort. Risking injury and giving the young guys no experience. Bill Bellichick said openly "They didn't pull their starters. If their starters are in, our starters are in". So those teams brought it on themselves.
So honestly if everybody wants to be crybabies and pee their pants because we handed them their @sses, fine. But wouldn't it be better if they used that horrible loss to the Pats as a lesson, and use what they learned to grow and make a run at the title? But of course not, they all just turn their attention to us instead of looking at themselves, and how to avoid it happening again.
Did you hear anybody on the pats or any fan of the pats squeeling like a little girl with a skinned knee after that big loss to the Bills?
You can also look at it like this, there is no lead so big that you can't be beat. Remember a few years back, the Colts overcoming a 34 point 4th quarter deficit against the Bucs?
and for your comment of hoping "we get whats coming to us" because we beat people by wide margins.
Honestly, we did.
We learned nothing from all the winning, because you really can't. The Giants learned from that loss to us in week 17.
The Pats went out there trying to do the same flashy crap they used all year, even though teams learned how to defend against it. When it didn't work, instead of going back to the small things that got them 3 other titles recently, they just kept on doing it, and paid the price.
The Giants learned form their loss and got a Lombardi trophy for their troubles..... we learned nothing from 18 straight wins, and we got a clearance sale on AFC Champs gear for our troubles.:bricks:
My Sensei's proverb in action, in all of these examples.
So, if you would like to continue having honest, thought provoking and friendly discussions with us Pats fans, then open your mind and stick around.
If you just want to vent you verbal frustrations and be a sh!t stirrur, then go p!ss on an electric fence and rejoin the Bills forums. They will gladly let you join their p!ss and moan sessions there...but it might be a little difficult to hear through the sound of all the crickets.
