For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem...

[Patspsycho]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

The question is how much of his job performance is due to him and how much of it is due to the Vikings having superior talent at almost every single position on the field? Hell, I could probably coach that team. I challenge you to name me one position where the Vikings do not have acceptable talent on the field, on both offense and defense.

And, I'm not sure I understand the last question...

Those incremental improvements are not by accident. It isn't as if it spiked one year because they got a blockbuster of a trade (e.g., Allen).

 

[Sicilian]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

Give an example of that in the modern NFL (and by Modern NFL, I mean the last 5 years, since the illegal contact rules changed)

And how exactly would you want me to quantify that? If your secondary can maintain coverage longer, the pass rush has more time to reach the QB. Hence the term "coverage sack". Just because a system isn't predicated on it doesn't mean the theory isn't true.

The pass rush may benefit the secondary more than vice versa, but that doesn't mean the impact of the secondary just gets thrown out the window.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

Eh, they've been drafting High for a couple of years, so of course they have good talent. The issue with Childress is, that had Bret Favre not mysteriously showed up, they'd still be an 8-8 team with no QB. He has seriously neglected the most important position on the field, and then lucked into a pro-bowler.

I agree but Childress recruited Favre who was familiar w/ the offensive system. A big part of coaching is recruiting talent and getting the talent to perform.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

He's simply inherited a loaded team.

He inherited a "loaded team" that went 6-10. Explain.

 

[upstater1]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

It's simple: without playmakers, your team is going to stall.

However, my question is geared to the people that believe that the coaching staff was more to blame this season than the personnel.

Hopefully someone can actually ANSWER this question.

It comes back to Belichick. He took a team with a DL of Ferric Collons, Mark Wheeler, Mike Jones and Pio Sagapolutele to the Super Bowl. So, when it comes to overperforming with poor personnel, Belichick has a track record.

I can't answer the question why, but since I have seen Belichick mold a team without top echelon talent into a top unit, I know he is a good judge of the coaching/talent dynamic. The fact that he got rid of Pees speaks volumes.

Don't forget that in 2001, in a poll of players, coaches and league executives, the Patriots were thought of as the least talented team in the NFL.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

The question is how much of his job performance is due to him and how much of it is due to the Vikings having superior talent at almost every single position on the field? Hell, I could probably coach that team. I challenge you to name me one position where the Vikings do not have acceptable talent on the field, on both offense and defense.

And, I'm not sure I understand the last question...

Anyone who doesn't understand that talent matters far more than the OC need only look at the Vikings from last season compared to this season. Unfortunately, the "Burn the Coordinators!" crowd are looking for scapegoats but don't have the balls to actually point to the head coach, who's stated time and again that the coordinators are running what he tells them to.

 

[mgteich]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

The truth is that Bill Belichick is the best HC ever, and is quite capable of simultaneously performing well at GM, head of player personnel, OC, DC, and stepping in to coach various positions as needed.

 

[upstater1]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

Maybe I'm missing something... You know that there was no attempt to retain Pees?

It has been reported.

 

[upstater1]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

Anyone who doesn't understand that talent matters far more than the OC need only look at the Vikings from last season compared to this season. Unfortunately, the "Burn the Coordinators!" crowd are looking for scapegoats but don't have the balls to actually point to the head coach, who's stated time and again that the coordinators are running what he tells them to.

Belichick fired Pees. If that transfer of ideas, orders or commincation from Belichick to Pees were running smoothly, he wouldn't have fired the guy.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

The coordinators/coaching were the problem. How do I know? Because Belichick felt Pees wasn't working out, and he intimated that the situation with O'Brien wasn't optimal in terms of new ideas, communication. That doesn't necessarily mean O'Brien is bad, but it does mean Pees was not cutting it.

What's your point about Childress? A lot of ratty teams made it to the championship game. Heck, some ratty teams like Chicago with Rex Grossman even made it to the Super Bowl. Don't ask me to explain how crap teams get so far. But I know this: crap teams don't win the Super Bowl (unless they have an incredible amount of luck, 2007, cough cough).

Could you link me to the quote where BB "intimated" the situation with O'Brien was suboptimal? Thanks.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

He inherited a "loaded team" that went 6-10. Explain.

I should have made it more obvious that I was talking about this year. If anything, the fact that he went 6-10 in his first year as a coach with an undertalented team only puts an exclamation point on my original post/point.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

Belichick fired Pees. If that transfer of ideas, orders or commincation from Belichick to Pees were running smoothly, he wouldn't have fired the guy.

Belichick didn't fire Pees. As for the rest of what you wrote, I can only state that you seemingly have never held a management position.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

I'd say we could do better than Pees as DC.

That said, before people go nuts because he's gone. I remember the KC Chiefs 02-06 they were an explosive club with NO defense. They brought in a very experienced DC (his name slips my mind) and you know their results? ****. Because talent and coaching go hand and in. If wade Philips were fired and brought here, even still our defense would struggle the shape the front 7 is in.

I almost think last season was a blessing in disguise. Hopefully all this talk about how much talent is lacking will wake Bb and co. up.

 

[slash83]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

Vikes are in because of their players, not coaches. Jared Allen, Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, Ray Edwards, Ben Leber, Chad Greenway. Thats only the defense...

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

If there was ever a time in which I wish Mav was here still, it would be for this thread. He is pretty much the posterchild of the, "it's all the coordinators" line of thinking.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

I should have made it more obvious that I was talking about this year. If anything, the fact that he went 6-10 in his first year as a coach with an undertalented team only puts an exclamation point on my original post/point.

Since his record as a coach has improved EVERY year, I'm afraid that it doesn't.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

Think Pees quit or used the BS illness excuse because he knew this defense was going to be a hard one to improve on in a short period?

Maybe he realized a team like Denver would be a good place to go since they have a solid lineup already in place while NEs is in a bit of a mess at this time.

 

[paradox]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

Belichick didn't fire Pees. As for the rest of what you wrote, I can only state that you seemingly have never held a management position.

If Pees is in as DC for Denver, then BB fired him. No way he stepped down for the same position in Denver. Very likely BB was nice enough to allow him to step down so he wouldn't get the label "fired"

 

[Brady to Brown]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

"It is what it is"

Belichick bought the groceries and for the most part determines where and how the lettuce and apples are used. The best chef in the world can't make a great salad with brown lettuce.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: For the crowd that thinks that the coordinators/coaching staff were the problem..

Players make the coaches more than coaches make the players...obviously

If you think otherwise then Caldwell and Ryan are geniuses and Billick was the best NFL head coach in 2000

I think something that no one talks about in terms of the Jets being so good on defense is not of Rex Ryan being a great coach and motivator but in more of the credit going to Mangini who drafted several of these key players on the Jets team including magnificent moves to get Revis,not to forget Harris which they got in a trade with Carolina and Keller as well.