- Joined
- Mar 13, 2005
- Messages
- 20,536
- Reaction score
- 1
Registered Members experience this forum ad and noise-free.
CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.Valid points all Nash, but I also don't read too much pessimism into your post either.
Hobbs was a loss, I'd be more confident if BB had retained him, but I also wanted some interior depth on the OL and his trade brought in two promising OL (Orhnberger & Bussey).
As you've noted, this group is the one to watch, but I'm cautiously optimistic.
Why, even Arizona’s Matt Leinart got them, tossing a career-long, 78-yard pass to Larry Fitzgerald for a touchdown that may have actually qualified as an opportune time to allow a big play. It came with 61/2 minutes left in a game New England led by 47 points, the Patriots’ 47-7 romp over the Cardinals at Gillette Stadium on Dec . 21.
I know alot people on here are really excited about the NEW secondary, and scared about the OLB position. Im the other way around. Without getting into the OLB debate, here's why im concerned about the seconday.
Leigh Bodden, why all the love? Is it because he signed for one year, so he'll be motivated? Is it because he had one statistically good season? Lets keep in mind, 3 of those 6 ints were against Cinci. A team that most people feel was a bad team in 07. Game 1 against the Browns, Palmer threw all over the Browns for 401 yards, and 6tds. The fact that Bodden got 2 ints in that game is more of a side note. Game 2 against the Browns, Palmer had a qb rating of 44!! He just plain sucked that day. Why? I don't know, but im not willing to say it was all about Bodden. The other 3 ints he had that year were against QBs that were struggling. So, why all the love for Bodden? I know, he played in Romeos system, he's familiar with it. So was Hobbs, but everybody hated him. I think i'll just take a wait, and see approach on Bodden.
Carson Palmer - Cincinnati Bengals - Game Log - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
Leigh Bodden - New England Patriots - Game Log - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
Shawn Springs, He's OLD, and apparently has some injury concerns. From what i see, he failed to start 16 games over the last 3 seasons.
Shawn Springs - New England Patriots - Game Log - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
So, i guess you could say im not really that excited about him either.
Terrence Wheatley, 2 tackles, and then injured. Showed a little flash, but not enough for me to feel great about him starting. He's almost still a rookie, kinda like Crable.
Jonathan Wilhite, 2nd year player, who showed some flashes last year.
Darius Butler, rookie, so no need to talk about him yet.
So really, why is everybody so confident that this group of CBs is going to be great, and we should not be concerned? This group is a couple injuries away from starting a rookie, and a 2nd year guy. That might be great, but it might not be. See what im saying?
I didnt bring up the safetys, because honestly im not so worried about them.
This group is a couple injuries away from starting a rookie, and a 2nd year guy. That might be great, but it might not be. See what im saying?
So your point is that the Pats would be in trouble at a single position if they had injuries to BOTH starters at the position?
The Steelers are 2 injuries away from starting who? Keiwan Ratliff? William Gay? Joe Burnett?
The Giants are 2 injuries away from starting who? Kevin Dockery? Terrell Thomas? Bruce Johnson?
What team would be better off than the Pats if 2 starting CBs went down? Possibly the Colts since they've invested picks in CBs in the recent past and don't ask them to do too much in their scheme. So the question isn't if the Pats would be in trouble...the question is would the Pats be in more trouble relative to other teams.
The talent level of the CBs on the Pats is pretty high. They still have to show that talent translates to the field, fits the scheme and works well with the other DBs next to them.
Having a boatload of new talent at a position is like having a bunch of wrapped presents under the Christmas tree. They could be a complete bust and you are left with socks and aftershave, but chances are good there are electronics, sporting equipment and power tools in there somewhere.
If we can get past the Cincinnati debacle and look at Bodden, not as a savior or closet elite, but as a solid starting CB who has been productive within the same standards we set for Hobbs (an acceptable standard to most), I'd argue there are two proven NFL starters, and part of another with Wilhite. I still look at Samuel, Gay, and Hobbs transitions from rookies to starters and see Wilhite and Wheatley well along those same timelines. Give Butler half a season and he'll likely be there too. I still like Richardson to boot.There is only 1 cornerback on the Patriots roster that can reasonably be considered proven NFL starter quality, and that's the old man of the group. That player, Springs, has a recent history of missing games due to injury.
The "boatload of talent" is just a hope that physical skills (which nearly every NFL hopeful has in abundance) will translate to NFL success. It's not a reality.
If we can get past the Cincinnati debacle and look at Bodden, not as a savior or closet elite, but as a solid starting CB who has been productive within the same standards we set for Hobbs (an acceptable standard to most), I'd argue there are two proven NFL starters, and part of another with Wilhite. I still look at Samuel, Gay, and Hobbs transitions from rookies to starters and see Wilhite and Wheatley well along those same timelines. Give Butler half a season and he'll likely be there too. I still like Richardson to boot.
Speaking as someone who's had to develop youngsters into leaders, the kids are alright, not old Ty Law or Champ Bailey, but alright.
Sure and he was cut by Detroit, and we can't be knowing all the ins and outs of their lockerroom or GM's spreadsheets, but we can also look at his numbers and say the man is around the ball and making plays - and given the support his teammates from those Cleveburgh and Detroit teams offered, his production is encouraging. He's been a starter in the NFL for four years, granted on poor teams, but then so was Wes Welker. We can agree to disagree as to his baseline.Bodden was cut by an 0-16 team, and it was not all because of his contract. While it's quite possible that he'll bounce back and give the proverbial finger to the Lions, it's also possible that he'll be Fernando Bryant, Part II. I'm not calling the man a stiff or attempting to denigrate him in any way but, given his history, I can't credit him as being verifiably NFL starter quality as of this time.
Sure and he was cut by Detroit, and we can't be knowing all the ins and outs of their lockerroom or GM's spreadsheets, but we can also look at his numbers and say the man is around the ball and making plays - and given the support his teammates from those Cleveburgh and Detroit teams offered, his production is encouraging. He's been a starter in the NFL for four years, granted on poor teams, but then so was Wes Welker. We can agree to disagree as to his baseline.
There is only 1 cornerback on the Patriots roster that can reasonably be considered proven NFL starter quality, and that's the old man of the group. That player, Springs, has a recent history of missing games due to injury.
The "boatload of talent" is just a hope that physical skills (which nearly every NFL hopeful has in abundance) will translate to NFL success. It's not a reality.
Springs had a lingering calf injury last year and previously fractured his shoulder blade. His other injuries have been groin and hamstring pulls, which are going to happen. Assuming there aren't any lingering concerns over the calf and shoulder injuries (and you would think the Pats checked him out), he really doesn't have a history of chronic weakness or problem areas. He is 34 so injuries are obviously a concern but Springs still plays very well when he is on the field.
Bodden is 27 so he is at the peak of his physical/experience development. When you classify him as not being "proven NFL starter quality", I'm not sure what that means. He has started in the NFL and I can prove it. That only leaves "quality" in question, which is a little difficult to gauge given the teams that he has been on. I personally haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement, but reports are generally positive.
Wilhite seems like a competent player that can do what is asked of him (as long as you don't ask too much). Wheatley and Butler are high draft picks with elite skills.
Taken individually, the questions/concerns about each are worrisome. It is like you had family members in 5 different high-risk (earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanoes, etc.) but highly desirable areas of the world. You would worry about each of them, but the odds that your whole family gets wiped out would be remote. I think enough of this DB talent pans out on the field in 2009 to make the Pats secondary a strength by the playoffs.