Fall from 11 or lower to 29

[everlong]

NFL Draft - 2014 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

From CBS's ranking if you could only pick one player that you wished would slide all the way to 29 from 11 or lower who would it be? I have a feeling how this might go so I'll wait to vote.

 

[Kontradiction]

From 11-29 or 11-1? Sorry, it's been a long day. If it's from 11-29, I would go with Kony Ealy. Bookend the other side of that DL with a quality pass rusher. From 11-1? Come on.

 

[mayoclinic]

NFL Draft - 2014 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

From CBS's ranking if you could only pick one player that you wished would slide all the way to 29 from 11 or lower who would it be? I have a feeling how this might go so I'll wait to vote.

What does "11 or lower" mean? The top 11 prospects as rated by NFLDraftScout? That won't happen. Most people would probably vote for Clowney (not me), but it's meaningless since he won't get out of the top 5, much less fall to 29. Guys rated between 11 and 28?

 

[everlong]

What does "11 or lower" mean? The top 11 prospects as rated by NFLDraftScout? That won't happen. Most people would probably vote for Clowney (not me), but it's meaningless since he won't get out of the top 5, much less fall to 29. Guys rated between 11 and 28?

Lower in draft terms to me is the opposite of numerical. 1 is the highest pick. So 11-28 falling to 29.

 

[everlong]

From 11-29 or 11-1? Sorry, it's been a long day. If it's from 11-29, I would go with Kony Ealy. Bookend the other side of that DL with a quality pass rusher. From 11-1? Come on.

I have to admit I didn't expect his name to come up. I just don't see it when it comes to Ealy.

 

[gobesmug]

Eric Ebron. I'm not a fan of taking an offensive player with the #29 pick. But Ebron would look so good in the pats offense, and would make an immediate impact in the redzone.

 

[mayoclinic]

Lower in draft terms to me is the opposite of numerical. 1 is the highest pick. So 11-28 falling to 29.

It's not much of a stretch to think of guys rated 20-28 slipping to 29. Aaron Donald, for example, could easily slip because of size issues once the memory of his Senior Bowl performance dims a bit. It's common for guys who dominate at the Senior Bowl to slip a little bit by the time the draft rolls around (Cameron Jordan, for example, who was touted as a possible top 10 pick all the way up to draft day).

I suspect the obvious one that most people will target is Eric Ebron. No way he makes it out of the top 20 that I see, and he would be a worthy pick at 29. I'd personally still rather go defense, but I certainly couldn't complain about Ebron.

 

[everlong]

It's not much of a stretch to think of guys rated 20-28 slipping to 29. Aaron Donald, for example, could easily slip because of size issues once the memory of his Senior Bowl performance dims a bit. It's common for guys who dominate at the Senior Bowl to slip a little bit by the time the draft rolls around (Cameron Jordan, for example, who was touted as a possible top 10 pick all the way up to draft day).

I suspect the obvious one that most people will target is Eric Ebron. No way he makes it out of the top 20 that I see, and he would be a worthy pick at 29. I'd personally still rather go defense, but I certainly couldn't complain about Ebron.

I know guys slip from 30-38 to 29.

Holy Christ this thead was just to have a little fun and turned into too much work.

 

[mayoclinic]

Holy Christ this thead was just to have a little fun and turned into too much work.

Sorry, I didn't mean to turn it into the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[everlong]

Sorry, I didn't mean to turn it into the Spanish Inquisition.

I was just joking around. I just find it funny when threads go nothing like you thought.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Sorry, I didn't mean to turn it into the Spanish Inquisition.

The truth is that no one expected it

 

[mayoclinic]

Seriously, if I had to pick a "faller" right now it would be Anthony Barr, who was considered a possible top 5 pick at the end of the college football season, and who is now dropping into the teens. If Barr slipped to 20 or so I'd be all over a trade up to get him. Barr and Collins together would be sick.

 

[ashley]

I would choose Calvin Pryor. I'm surprised he is so low at 28.

 

[manxman2601]

Seriously, if I had to pick a "faller" right now it would be Anthony Barr, who was considered a possible top 5 pick at the end of the college football season, and who is now dropping into the teens. If Barr slipped to 20 or so I'd be all over a trade up to get him. Barr and Collins together would be sick.

Apart from Ebron The Obvious, Barr was my first thought. I tend not to like the type ( Dion Jordan) but Barr would be excellent value late in the first. If we are Tlib-less, passing on Dennard would be hard to deal with.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Lower in draft terms to me is the opposite of numerical. 1 is the highest pick. So 11-28 falling to 29.

This is why I generally go with "early"/"late" instead of "high"/"low."

 

[AzorianPats]

For me its CJ Mosley.

I know he doesn't have the size BB typically likes in his LB, but the kids an athletic freak, who can also run with TE. Which also means it free's up Jaime Collins, and gives him opportunities to get to the QB.

All off season we all have been talking about what DE either in the draft or FA can come in and be a force and rotate with Jones and Ninkovich, when in the meantime we might possibly have a beast in house all this time in Collins. Just remember his numbers as a DE in college. He was probably only behind Dion Jordan.

Drafting Mosley kills two birds with one stone for me.

 

[everlong]

Apart from Ebron The Obvious, Barr was my first thought. I tend not to like the type ( Dion Jordan) but Barr would be excellent value late in the first. If we are Tlib-less, passing on Dennard would be hard to deal with.

Can you expound on this? What is it you don't like about the Dion Jordan type? Just too light for the height? Jordan is 6'6" 248 according to his combine results last year which is nearly identical to Jason Taylor to whom he's always compared, especially since the fins took him. Barr is the same weight and 2 inches shorter. I wasn't putting him into the same type based on that and that I think Barr can easily go from 248 to 255 and lose no speed. At 6'4" 255 I was putting Barr more into the classic 80's-90's OLB like LT, Tippett or Derrick Thomas. Not that he'll be as good as them but the classic size and speed.

 

[mayoclinic]

Can you expound on this? What is it you don't like about the Dion Jordan type? Just too light for the height? Jordan is 6'6" 248 according to his combine results last year which is nearly identical to Jason Taylor to whom he's always compared, especially since the fins took him. Barr is the same weight and 2 inches shorter. I wasn't putting him into the same type based on that and that I think Barr can easily go from 248 to 255 and lose no speed. At 6'4" 255 I was putting Barr more into the classic 80's-90's OLB like LT, Tippett or Derrick Thomas. Not that he'll be as good as them but the classic size and speed.

Although Barr has been compared to Dion Jordan, I think he's quite different.

I was one of the earliest Dion Jordan proponents on this board. A 6'6"+ 250# LB with his kind of speed and movement skills and ability to play in space was absolutely ridiculous. Jordan's Combine (4.54 40, 7.02 3-cone) was consistent with that. But, as Manx pointed out earlier than anyone, Jamie Collins had very similar movement skills to Jordan with better explosiveness, and Collins' vertical (41.5" vs. 32.5") more than compensated for the difference in height. I thought Jordan was worth a late 1st round pick and would have been a great value in the 2nd round, but I never expected him to get hyped up to the extent that he did, going #3 overall. Moreover, he was hyped up as an edge rusher, and it wasn't clear to me that that was his strength. Jordan's biggest strength is his fluidity and movement in space combined with his long frame; his weaknesses are his lack of core strength and limited explosiveness. Jordan just isn't strong enough or big enough to be a full time line player, and he doesn't have as much explosiveness as Collins, so that he is less effective coming off the edge from the 2nd level. By the time the draft rolled around I still had Jordan rated a late 1st/early 2nd prospect, but I had Collins rated more highly; going 49 picks after Jordan, it was no contest. I think that Jordan was misused terribly in Miami this season, where they expected him to be another Aldon Smith. That's just not his game.

As for Barr, the biggest question I have is exactly what kind of player is he? Is he best suited in space, or as an explosive Leo kind of player? Is he - as you say - more like LT, Derrick Thomas or Andre Tippett (which is where I would put Khalil Mack), or is he more of a Jamie Collins kind of guy. Some people feel that Barr lacks the fluidity to excel in space, and is best being used as a Robert Mathis kind of role. I'm very interested to see how Barr does at the Combine, particularly his 3-cone and vertical and how he looks in the LB drills, to get a better sense of his explosiveness and ability to play in space.

Part of the problem with these kind of uber-versatile prospects is figuring out how to use them to best effect. The Pats clearly took their time with Collins and I think it paid off by the end of the season. I think Barr has top 10 talent, but what kind of scheme he is drafted into and how he is used will have a big impact on his effectiveness.

 

[mayoclinic]

Part of the problem with these kind of uber-versatile prospects is figuring out how to use them to best effect. The Pats clearly took their time with Collins and I think it paid off by the end of the season. I think Barr has top 10 talent, but what kind of scheme he is drafted into and how he is used will have a big impact on his effectiveness.

BTW, Drew Boylhart had this in his (now freely available) profile on Dion Jordan from last year:

Years ago, the Raiders had a player called The Stork. Ted Hendricks bounced around the NFL until the Raiders traded for him because no one knew what to do with him in spite of the fact that he was impactful for every team for which he played. He was "different" and most coaches don't handle "different" very well. Dion is "different" also and I suspect most teams will pass on him because they won't know what position he will play. You don't pass on athletic players with good production, excellent work ethic and leadership skills just because you don't know what position they might play. Draft Dion, use him as a specialty player until he gets stronger and, before the end of his 1st year, he will find his way onto the field as a starter and at his impact position. Think about it: Dion has the potential leadership skills to be your coach on the field, cover tight ends like a safety, rush the passer as a stand up OLB or as a down defensive end in a 4-3 and you don't think he should be drafted early in this draft? Seriously?

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2013profiles/Dion.Jordan.htm

Two thoughts:

1. The Dolphins clearly don't handle "different" well, on many levels.

2. Substitute Jamie Collins for Dion Jordan in this profile and it reads just as well. The Pats' clearly had a much better approach to handling "different" and not knowing exactly where Collins fit.

Something to think about with tons of hybrid players in this draft like Anthony Barr, Marcus Smith, Kyle Van Noy, Ryan Shazier, Christian Jones, Trent Murphy, Tyler Starr and others who may not fit cleanly into natural slots.

 

[Kontradiction]

BTW, Drew Boylhart had this in his (now freely available) profile on Dion Jordan from last year:



http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2013profiles/Dion.Jordan.htm

Two thoughts:

1. The Dolphins clearly don't handle "different" well, on many levels.

2. Substitute Jamie Collins for Dion Jordan in this profile and it reads just as well. The Pats' clearly had a much better approach to handling "different" and not knowing exactly where Collins fit.

Something to think about with tons of hybrid players in this draft like Anthony Barr, Marcus Smith, Kyle Van Noy, Ryan Shazier, Christian Jones, Trent Murphy, Tyler Starr and others who may not fit cleanly into natural slots.

I'm really not sure why so many posters thought Jamie Collins was going to line up with his hand in the dirt and just rush the passer. I understand he did that very well, but his size and athleticism screamed "coverage specialist at LB", at least in his rookie year. I remember I got into a lot of debates with posters last year (sometimes heated) who inferred that I was an idiot for making the case that Collins was going to be used primarily as a coverage specialist in his first season. Fast forward one year, and that's exactly what he was used for.