Does Belichick Last Beyond 2023, and What Needs to Happen?

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Does anyone believe RKK would fire BB? He's only fired 1 HC as the owner and BB won't be the second. They can go 2-15 and BB would be back.

RK would do everything in his power to make it look like it is Bill's decision to leave. Of course he will not make it look like he fired him. However Kraft is a businessman and as soon as he feels that BB's presence as coach and GM is leading to consistent drop in value of the team...he absolutely will part ways.

 

[All3Phases]

RK would do everything in his power to make it look like it is Bill's decision to leave. Of course he will not make it look like he fired him. However Kraft is a businessman and as soon as he feels that BB's presence as coach and GM is leading to consistent drop in value of the team...he absolutely will part ways.

Just like they did with Brady

 

[venecol]

Does anyone believe RKK would fire BB? He's only fired 1 HC as the owner and BB won't be the second. They can go 2-15 and BB would be back.

Of course RKK won't fire Bill, but he can and should start a transition plan. We don't want to make the same mistakes made after Tom and Josh left. Need to be smart about this since the end is near.

Edit: same thing Ivan said. Lol

 

[Ivan]

Amen. Bill needs to stop acting like he owns the team and show a little humility

Belichick isn’t acting like he owns the team, he is doing exactly what Kraft agreed to when they hired him away from the Jets, he’s running all football operations. And while I certainly didn’t like his approach this season the last thing I want is Bob Kraft making football decisions. Just ale one look at what happened in Dallas when Jones put himself in charge of football operations. Hire great football people and let them do their job. I’m all for bringing back Robinson or Licht to start getting ready for life after Belichick, but I don’t want the Kraft’s running football operations.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Just like they did with Brady

you raise a good point. I suspect this was primarily Bill's decision to let Brady go. If Kraft was involved...he made the incorrect assessment that Brady's play would fall off a cliff making the team less competitive and he did not want to pay him 50 million.
This was a monumental error of epic proportions.

For Belichick, if his coaching and GM decisions result in Pats no longer being relevant with no hope for the immediate future, I have no doubt Kraft will find a way to make a change in a manner that would minimize the PR blowback.

 

[Ian]

you raise a good point. I suspect this was primarily Bill's decision to let Brady go. If Kraft was involved...he made the incorrect assessment that Brady's play would fall off a cliff making the team less competitive and he did not way to pay him 50 million.
This was a monumental error of epic proportions.

For Belichick, if his coaching and GM decisions result in Pats no longer being relevant with no hope for the immediate future, I have no doubt he will find a way to make a change in a manner that would minimize the PR blowback.

I’m also one who wish they rode it out, but I guess it doesn’t change the fact we would have gotten to this point eventually. It’s essentially the same problem we would have faced either way, it just ended up happening a little sooner than it would have had they stuck with him.

It’s just too bad the guy who did get some time playing behind him - Stidham - didn’t pan out, which forced them into the spot they’re in. Sort of wonder how much better someone like Mac would have been working behind and learning from the GOAT…”it is what it is,” I guess.

 

[Wozzy]

you raise a good point. I suspect this was primarily Bill's decision to let Brady go. If Kraft was involved...he made the incorrect assessment that Brady's play would fall off a cliff making the team less competitive and he did not way to pay him 50 million.
This was a monumental error of epic proportions.

For Belichick, if his coaching and GM decisions result in Pats no longer being relevant with no hope for the immediate future, I have no doubt he will find a way to make a change in a manner that would minimize the PR blowback.

Brady was a free agent who chose to leave. BB didn’t “let him go” and there was no way Kraft was going to try and keep him hostage after he took less money the last six seasons here so they could seriously compete and win three more rings. This narrative that BB let him go is nonsense.

As for BB, this season was clearly a failure and a lost season based on coaching decisions. That being said, the team is in an upward trajectory if they can fix the offensive coaching quickly and definitively, then have another great offseason like they have the last two.

 

[All3Phases]

Brady was a free agent who chose to leave. BB didn’t “let him go” and there was no way Kraft was going to try and keep him hostage after he took less money the last six seasons here so they could seriously compete and win three more rings. This narrative that BB let him go is nonsense.

He chose to leave because of the refusal from the organization to offer him a market deal for his caliber/age. He wanted commitment and the team didn’t want to commit. Saying He chose to leave after wanting long term deals doesn’t add up.

As for BB, this season was clearly a failure and a lost season based on coaching decisions. That being said, the team is in an upward trajectory if they can fix the offensive coaching quickly and definitively, then have another great offseason like they have the last two.

Their overall roster is much better than it was in 2020, but they need an overhaul to the offensive staff, and their quarterback is mediocre. Hard to continue an upward trend with those question marks

 

[doesntmatter1]

BB will last as long as Kraft allows him. BB is officially in coast mode. Our coaching staff is already one of the smallest in the league and they don't even try to properly replace them with new blood. We don't scour the college ranks and settle for friends and family. Special teams is BB specialty and look how far that has fallen.

Robert Kraft will get this fixed imo. Kraft is a fan of the game and sees what we see. I think Kraft is the reason we announced that we are interviewing new offensive coordinators because Bill seemed perfectly fine keeping things as they are. I predict BB can only withstand 2 more seasons with embarrassing playoff exits and poor regular season efforts in November and December.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Brady was a free agent who chose to leave. BB didn’t “let him go” and there was no way Kraft was going to try and keep him hostage after he took less money the last six seasons here so they could seriously compete and win three more rings. This narrative that BB let him go is nonsense.

As for BB, this season was clearly a failure and a lost season based on coaching decisions. That being said, the team is in an upward trajectory if they can fix the offensive coaching quickly and definitively, then have another great offseason like they have the last two.

Brady wanted to leave because BB and Kraft decided in the previous 1-2 years not to sign him beyond 1 year at a time.
? upward trajectory. Not necessarily so

 

[Wozzy]

He chose to leave because of the refusal from the organization to offer him a market deal for his caliber/age. He wanted commitment and the team didn’t want to commit. Saying He chose to leave after wanting long term deals doesn’t add up.

By the time he wanted to secure a longer term deal the team was committed to going all in to win as many rings as possible. If he stayed they would have had to endure a season like 2020 where they spent no money, got him no vet weapons and they would have to take a "down" year to reset their cap space. Was Tom willing to lose a year at age 42, I don't think so.

Their overall roster is much better than it was in 2020, but they need an overhaul to the offensive staff, and their quarterback is mediocre. Hard to continue an upward trend with those question marks

This is because they reset their cap in 2020, see what I wrote above. Leaving for Tampa was the best thing for the player. Starting over and rebuilding was the best thing for the organization, even if 2022 didn't go to plan.

 

[Wozzy]

Brady wanted to leave because BB and Kraft decided in the previous 1-2 years not to sign him beyond 1 year at a time.
? upward trajectory. Not necessarily so

Brady agreed to take less money from 2014 on to give the team a chance to win more rings. How do we know? He literally had to sign those contracts. If he didn't want to he could have held out, it wasn't about money for him he wanted to win.

Once they had done that he wanted a long term deal and the Patriots were already in a cap hole at that point. We can bemoan how they did things, but can't complain about playing in 4 Super Bowls and winning 3 of them.

 

[Ring 6]

BB will last as long as Kraft allows him. BB is officially in coast mode. Our coaching staff is already one of the smallest in the league and they don't even try to properly replace them with new blood. We don't scour the college ranks and settle for friends and family. Special teams is BB specialty and look how far that has fallen.

Robert Kraft will get this fixed imo. Kraft is a fan of the game and sees what we see. I think Kraft is the reason we announced that we are interviewing new offensive coordinators because Bill seemed perfectly fine keeping things as they are. I predict BB can only withstand 2 more seasons with embarrassing playoff exits and poor regular season efforts in November and December.

Just to be clear, your opinion is bill belichick isn’t trying to win?

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Brady agreed to take less money from 2014 on to give the team a chance to win more rings. How do we know? He literally had to sign those contracts. If he didn't want to he could have held out, it wasn't about money for him he wanted to win.

Once they had done that he wanted a long term deal and the Patriots were already in a cap hole at that point. We can bemoan how they did things, but can't complain about playing in 4 Super Bowls and winning 3 of them.

Playing in 4 super bowls and winning 3 was obviously incredible. After that, Kraft and BB could have made the decision to keep Brady no matter what. They decided to not do everything to keep him, which could have included franchising him or manipulating the cap to give him the extension he wanted.
It was a super difficult decision. They thought they were doing the right thing. With 20;20 hindsight it was a bad decision that has resulted in putting the patriots into the sinkhole of mediocrity with no easy escape.

3 years out from Brady's departure, it appears to me that BB may have possibly underestimated the difficulty of rebuilding post Brady. Some of this may have been overconfidence on BB's part based on the unprecedented success he had while Brady was here.
With 6 or 7 top flight QB's in AFC, not at all sure Pats are on an "upward trajectory". If you simply look at facts and data, without Brady, BB is an average coach and bad GM....so it's difficult to have confidence they will be on an upward trajectory while Bill is at the helm in his 70's.

 

[All3Phases]

By the time he wanted to secure a longer term deal the team was committed to going all in to win as many rings as possible. If he stayed they would have had to endure a season like 2020 where they spent no money, got him no vet weapons and they would have to take a "down" year to reset their cap space. Was Tom willing to lose a year at age 42, I don't think so.

He wanted a longer term deal after the 2017 and 2018 season, they refused. You have no idea how 2019 and the future plays out if he was signed prior. Signing your Elite level qb to cheap deals isn’t an issue, and 2/50
Is cheap. Let me ask this, how many teams have lost their franchise qb to free agency in the history of the sport?

This is because they reset their cap in 2020, see what I wrote above. Leaving for Tampa was the best thing for the player. Starting over and rebuilding was the best thing for the organization, even if 2022 didn't go to plan.

Well they have yet to find the biggest piece. I’m afraid it’ll be a bumpy ride til then

 

[Ring 6]

Playing in 4 super bowls and winning 3 was obviously incredible. After that, Kraft and BB could have made the decision to keep Brady no matter what. They decided to not do everything to keep him, which could have included franchising him or manipulating the cap to give him the extension he wanted.
It was a super difficult decision. They thought they were doing the right thing. With 20;20 hindsight it was a bad decision that has resulted in putting the patriots into the sinkhole of mediocrity with no easy escape.

3 years out from Brady's departure, it appears to me that BB may have possibly underestimated the difficulty of rebuilding post Brady. Some of this may have been overconfidence on BB's part based on the unprecedented success he had while Brady was here.
With 6 or 7 top flight QB's in AFC, not at all sure Pats are on an "upward trajectory". If you simply look at facts and data, without Brady, BB is an average coach and bad GM....so it's difficult to have confidence they will be on an upward trajectory while Bill is at the helm in his 70's.

With true 20/20 hindsight it really wasn’t a bad decision. Unless you care about nostalgia. They needed to rebuild with or without Brady. The fact that they aren’t there yet with 75 mill extra having been spent than if he stayed tells you they weren’t winning if he stayed either.

 

[Wozzy]

Playing in 4 super bowls and winning 3 was obviously incredible. After that, Kraft and BB could have made the decision to keep Brady no matter what. They decided to not do everything to keep him, which could have included franchising him or manipulating the cap to give him the extension he wanted.
It was a super difficult decision. They thought they were doing the right thing. With 20;20 hindsight it was a bad decision that has resulted in putting the patriots into the sinkhole of mediocrity with no easy escape.

3 years out from Brady's departure, it appears to me that BB may have possibly underestimated the difficulty of rebuilding post Brady. Some of this may have been overconfidence on BB's part based on the unprecedented success he had while Brady was here.
With 6 or 7 top flight QB's in AFC, not at all sure Pats are on an "upward trajectory". If you simply look at facts and data, without Brady, BB is an average coach and bad GM....so it's difficult to have confidence they will be on an upward trajectory while Bill is at the helm in his 70's.

Franchise tagging a player sounds great from a fans point of view but Kraft, BB and Brady had a twenty year relationship. They weren’t going to get petty and stuck to their word. It was never going to happen. Holding HOF players hostage is what dumpster fire teams like Detroit do to Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson. You don’t do it, not only because you have a personal relationship with said player but it will stain your reputation among all free agent players going forward. Fans don’t want to say goodbye, everything ends.

As far as the rebuild goes I think BB screwed up royally this season with coaching. It was a total move of hubris to think he could coach Patricia to call offense when neither one of them had ever done the job. Moreover they were in year two of Mac and year one of Zappe, they needed stability there not chaos.

Beyond the snafu that was 2022 I think the rebuild is going fine. If they fix their offensive coaching and have another great offseason they will be competitive again next season. If not we’ll have reason to consider a change in that coaching chair.

 

[Wozzy]

He wanted a longer term deal after the 2017 and 2018 season, they refused. You have no idea how 2019 and the future plays out if he was signed prior. Signing your Elite level qb to cheap deals isn’t an issue, and 2/50
Is cheap. Let me ask this, how many teams have lost their franchise qb to free agency in the history of the sport?

Well they have yet to find the biggest piece. I’m afraid it’ll be a bumpy ride til then

Nothing you posted would change anything that came before. Starting in 2014 they became one of the oldest teams in the league. They built a team of savvy older vets, they weren’t looking to develop rookies. Their QB was in his 40’s and the goal was to win now.

2 years for Brady at 50 million (the contract Tampa gave him) doesn’t include the 13.5 million dollar cap hit they already owed on him. They began kicking the cap can down the road in 2014. By 2018 they were borrowing from Gilmore’s massive contract to fit players under the salary cap and pushing his cap debt down the road.

Understanding the salary cap is just as important as finding a developing young talent in team building. They Patriots organization wasn’t perfect, but 6 rings, 3 to end Brady’s career here will never be duplicated and was unprecedented before it happened. We have to be realistic… Tom wife wanted to live in Miami. We know that now, all things must end. We need to collectively get over it.

 

[Nehalem]

With true 20/20 hindsight it really wasn’t a bad decision. Unless you care about nostalgia. They needed to rebuild with or without Brady. The fact that they aren’t there yet with 75 mill extra having been spent than if he stayed tells you they weren’t winning if he stayed either.

If we signed Brady we wouldn't have had Nelson Agohlor and Jonnu Smith

 

[All3Phases]

Nothing you posted would change anything that came before. Starting in 2014 they became one of the oldest teams in the league. They built a team of savvy older vets, they weren’t looking to develop rookies. Their QB was in his 40’s and the goal was to win now.
And that qb is still good, not sure what the point of this post was.

2 years for Brady at 50 million (the contract Tampa gave him) doesn’t include the 13.5 million dollar cap hit they already owed on him. They began kicking the cap can down the road in 2014. By 2018 they were borrowing from Gilmore’s massive contract to fit players under the salary cap and pushing his cap debt down the road.

You have to acknowledge the 2019 deal wouldn’t have existed if they would’ve extended him when he originally wanted. Even so, that’s not a lot of money for an elite qb. You didn’t answer my question though, how many teams have lost their franchise qbs in FA?

Understanding the salary cap is just as important as finding a developing young talent in team building. They Patriots organization wasn’t perfect, but 6 rings, 3 to end Brady’s career here will never be duplicated and was unprecedented before it happened. We have to be realistic… Tom wife wanted to live in Miami. We know that now, all things must end. We need to collectively get over it.

Getting over it is fair, I just refuted the point of him wanting to leave vs getting shown the door. Irrelevant really I guess