Deion Branch Discussion

[Deus Irae]

I don't think my cloing argument warrants any questions but i will play.

1 = None But jury might still be out on Taylor Price never say never. Also David Givens had a unfortuante injury after cashing in with Tennessee.

If none of the draftee busts went on to success elsewhere, how can you blame their NFL failures on the complexity of the scheme?

2 = David Patten with the Saints: and Jabar Gaffney with the Skins.

Neither Patten nor Gaffney were failures with the Patriots. The issue isn't needing to be more 'vanilla'. The issue is needing to pick the right receivers.

 

[signbabybrady]

This question about Deion Branch seems to have broken down into a comparison of his stats this year to past years. I think that misses the point. Branch was the one true wideout on the field most of the time. The problem is he is simply not a threat to opposing defenses. He is not any sort of deep threat and he is not a threat after the catch. He gets some YAC, but as soon as there is about to be contact he folds and just goes down without even getting hit most of he time. He almost never fights for extra yards. He really puts no pressure on the opposing defense and I submit that no team game plans to stop Branch. In fact, with Gronk, Welker and Hernandez on the field teams would like Brady to go to Branch over the other three.

With a wideout, it is essential that he force the other team to defend the whole field. Branch does not do that.

I agree. Imagine having a WR on the field that teams have to worry about. Branch is on the field almost every play...when you guys are comparing him to 3rd and 4th WRs and touting his stats, you are forgetting that those other WRs play very few snaps compared to Branch.

You get a guy that is dangerous on the outside and then defenses really have to cover everything.

When I hear you guys talk about threatening the deep half the field I immediately think of Stallworth and if you looked at the stats above you would see that Stallworth was third on the team in yards in 07 and Branch was 4th in 11 but branch had more yards than Stallworth as the fourth option. Keep in mind that year we did not get much production out of the TEs. Defenses in 07 had to gameplan around two players Moss and Welker and in 11 they had to gameplan around 3 Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez. Sure maybe the Safety stayed a step or two deeper because of Stallworth but no one was gameplanning to Stallworth and Gaffney.

The WR position does not need a complete retooling it needs two things and this can come from one or two players. It needs someone who can imediately threaten the deep half of the field and it needs a young player. I am OK with a Vet and Rookie or just one first round rookie. Branch gets moved down the dpeth by one or both, we keep a player who Brady loves and knows the system inside and out, we get the youth and deep threat, and we dont spend too much and move onto the D.

 

[skinnydog]

When I hear you guys talk about threatening the deep half the field I immediately think of Stallworth and if you looked at the stats above you would see that Stallworth was third on the team in yards in 07 and Branch was 4th in 11 but branch had more yards than Stallworth as the fourth option. Keep in mind that year we did not get much production out of the TEs. Defenses in 07 had to gameplan around two players Moss and Welker and in 11 they had to gameplan around 3 Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez. Sure maybe the Safety stayed a step or two deeper because of Stallworth but no one was gameplanning to Stallworth and Gaffney.

The WR position does not need a complete retooling it needs two things and this can come from one or two players. It needs someone who can imediately threaten the deep half of the field and it needs a young player. I am OK with a Vet and Rookie or just one first round rookie. Branch gets moved down the dpeth by one or both, we keep a player who Brady loves and knows the system inside and out, we get the youth and deep threat, and we dont spend too much and move onto the D.

Uh, the comparisons don't work at all. Stallworth was initially brought in to be the deep threat and probably would have done a good job of it. But a few months later, they got some guy named Moss from the Raiders who you might have heard of. Possibly the best downfield deep threat in the history of the league. So no, Stallworth was not needed as a deep threat once they had Moss and it was Moss who drew all the coverage. Moss was also good enough that year to routinely catch deep balls while being double or even triple covered. So even if Stallworth was somewhat open becaus of all the attention Moss was getting, brady threw to Moss anyway and moss still caught the ball. Our offense is different now and is based on short to intermediate throws short and usually over the middle of the field. Against most defenses it doesn't really matter if the Pats have a deep threat, but with the good defenses, they can clog up this area rush the passer and guard against a mediocre outside threat like Branch. These are the playoff defenses and what works during the year against the non-playoff teams does not work as well when the Pats get to the playoffs. These are the defenses the Pats need to keep honest and Branch does not do it no matter how well he knows the offense.

 

[signbabybrady]

I still think there would be a place for Branch but this conversation especially my own 07 comparisons have made think about what would be the best offseason course of action.

Both my scenarios still start with the most important thing being retaining our own group of key FA.

But in thinking about how the two offenses work 07 compared to 11 it made me wonder if going all out for a Moss freak WR (not moss himself because he isnt that anymore but 07 Moss) might not be an easier path to dominance than trying to fix the D?

In 07 Moss was comanding so much deep attention that things were kind of easy underneath for Welker. Sure Stallworth and to a lesser exten Gaffney helped to threaten the deep half but it was mostly Moss making it easier on the underneath guys.

Fast forward to 11 or better yet 12 and picture someone like Moss taking that kind of attention deep with him. We now would have three guys to eat it up underneath.

Bring back Welker and do whatever needs to be done to bring in the all world WR and this offense could be better than 07 or 11 or anything ever seen.

and there would still be room for Branch .

I am talking insanity trade 2 ones for Fitz or something crazy

 

[javajunky]

Branch is just not a good complementary receiver to Welker and Hernandez. We need someone who can beat press coverage and/or get deep. Hopefully he will take back-up to stay.