Daniel Graham

[Keegs]

I honestly haven't been paying much attention lately to anything related to Daniel Graham. So I might ask something that is obvious. Which is nice becuase that will make it so much easier to answer.

Are there any talks as to what we are going to do with him?
Resign?
Release after this year?
Trade?

I think Graham is great on this team and i would consider it a huge loss if he left. I personally think they should definitely resign him and just run the 2 TE set all the time.

If we let this guy go its a huge mistake.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I honestly haven't been paying much attention lately to anything related to Daniel Graham. So I might ask something that is obvious. Which is nice becuase that will make it so much easier to answer.

Are there any talks as to what we are going to do with him?
Resign?
Release after this year?
Trade?

I think Graham is great on this team and i would consider it a huge loss if he left. I personally think they should definitely resign him and just run the 2 TE set all the time.

If we let this guy go its a huge mistake.

The prevailing thoughts on this board is that the team does not view him as a critical cog in the wheel of the team past this season.

But most board members also seem to feel that they would "never" trade Graham under any circumstances this season.

I disagree and feel there are plenty of scenarios that would see them get some value in return for trading a player deemed expendible after this season, but I am very much in the minority on that.

 

[World Champs 3X]

I think he will resign. Would love to see the Pats resign him which I think is very possible as long as he does not ask for the bank.

 

[dryheat44]

As documented elsewhere, I don't think he's at all expendible.

 

[maverick4]

re

The prevailing thoughts on this board is that the team does not view him as a critical cog in the wheel of the team past this season.

But most board members also seem to feel that they would "never" trade Graham under any circumstances this season.

I disagree and feel there are plenty of scenarios that would see them get some value in return for trading a player deemed expendible after this season, but I am very much in the minority on that.

I have thought and said Graham could be traded for a few months now.
Although he is pretty valuable, he is replaceable. There is no point paying 2Mill for a player when you can find cheaper players who can do nearly the same thing. I have a hard time believing there is a world scarcity of blocking tight ends who are average at catching. Also, it makes more sense to trade him for value than to let him walk and get nothing in return.
.

 

[JoeSixPat]

FYI - The discussion of the ProFootball Weekly report that the Patriots are not intending on re-signing Graham is on this thread

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=36626

 

[shakadave]

See also http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...wthread.php?t=34585&highlight=Graham+Official
for the Official Re-Sign Graham Thread.

 

[Boston Tim]

Mark me down as someone who feels that he is not replaceable. There is a good reason why BB spends first round picks on the TE position. The required size/strength/speed measurables just can't be found in free agency, unless you are willing to overspend.

If we finally get decent play from our RT, we might just be able to send Graham and Watson on passing routes. Then you'll see their true value. Here's hoping that Kaczur has a good training camp...

 

[JoeSixPat]

I have thought and said Graham would be traded for a few months now.
Although he is pretty valuable, he is replaceable. There is no point paying 2Mill for a player when you can find cheaper players who can do nearly the same thing. Also, it makes more sense to trade him for value than to let him walk and get nothing.

People talk as if there are no veteran TE's out there if depth is a concern...

Is it just crazy talk to suggest getting something rather than nothing for Graham? Even if that "something" is a reasonably priced veteran that maybe fills a long term need?

Is it crazy talk to suggest that Graham's blocking - while we all agree is great - isn't so great that BB uses defensive players in goal line situations as well?

Is it crazy talk to suggest that available TEs some of whom are decent veteran blockers and probably better pass catchers than Graham - could never fill his shoes in the short term?

I guess it is.

 

[dryheat44]

People talk as if there are no veteran TE's out there if depth is a concern...

Is it just crazy talk to suggest getting something rather than nothing for Graham? Even if that "something" is a reasonably priced veteran that maybe fills a long term need?

Is it crazy talk to suggest that Graham's blocking - while we all agree is great - isn't so great that BB uses defensive players in goal line situations as well?

Is it crazy talk to suggest that available TEs some of whom are decent veteran blockers and probably better pass catchers than Graham - could never fill his shoes in the short term?

I guess it is.

It's not crazy talk, but have you ever seen Vrabel come in as a tight end on a play besides goalline? Maybe on fourth and inches, I don't remember. But even on those plays, Graham is in the game too, and Vrabel is either the other tight end, or the wing.

I just think that if Graham goes, it will require a first round pick on a tight end for Belichick to run the offense he wants to.

I had a lengthy response in the other thread, so I'll spare it here.

 

[patsox23]

I have thought and said Graham could be traded for a few months now.
Although he is pretty valuable, he is replaceable. There is no point paying 2Mill for a player when you can find cheaper players who can do nearly the same thing.

Right. Except in Graham's case, I really don't think you can. I'm not sure people appreciate just how valuable he's been the last few years - and how his numbers have suffered - due to the injuries along the OL. The guy is a beast, a valuable TE and a devastating blocker.

Why would we TRADE him just because we drafted 1.5 TE's in Thomas and Mills?

 

[patsox23]

The prevailing thoughts on this board is that the team does not view him as a critical cog in the wheel of the team past this season.

I think many here feel that way based solely on the PFWhispers column suggesting it. I, for one, thnik Graham is extremely valuable. If he's too $$$, then we won't sign him, but that's true of almost every player on the team.

 

[Keegs]

Right. Except in Graham's case, I really don't think you can. I'm not sure people appreciate just how valuable he's been the last few years - and how his numbers have suffered - due to the injuries along the OL. The guy is a beast, a valuable TE and a devastating blocker.

Why would we TRADE him just because we drafted 1.5 TE's in Thomas and Mills?

I agree.
We can't just assume that either of those 2 would step in and be the best blocking TE in the league.
Anyways, wasn't one of them drafted as a Fullback anyways. To my understanding, the other was Fauria's replacement on the depth chart.

I still don't see how they can consider letting this guy go.

 

[maverick4]

re

Right. Except in Graham's case, I really don't think you can. I'm not sure people appreciate just how valuable he's been the last few years - and how his numbers have suffered - due to the injuries along the OL. The guy is a beast, a valuable TE and a devastating blocker.

Why would we TRADE him just because we drafted 1.5 TE's in Thomas and Mills?

I am aware that most of Graham's value drew from the fact that he could help the O-Line block. This was useful when our O-Line had a few street free agents on it. With strong additions to our O-Line over the past two years, I do not see why Watson could not step in as our #1 TE, with a run package of Light, Mankins, Koppen, O'Callaghan, Kaczur, and Hockstein (as FB/TE). I think Graham should be traded for a defensive player.
.

 

[maverick4]

re

I think many here feel that way based solely on the PFWhispers column suggesting it.

Not true; I had suggested it before the draft.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

We drafted a TE and a FB. Thomas was taken to supplement the loss one TE to FA. Mills was taken as a FB to infuse youth in the backfield. I don't see why people read this as Graham's departure. NE will resign him for sure if the price is right.

:wha:

 

[spacecrime]

Although he is pretty valuable, he is replaceable. There is no point paying 2Mill for a player when you can find cheaper players who can do nearly the same thing.

Interesting. You could change the 2 mil to 5-6 mil and say the same thing about not extended Deion Branch....

 

[maverick4]

re

Interesting. You could change the 2 mil to 5-6 mil and say the same thing about not extended Deion Branch....

True. It depends on how much you value Graham. Even though he was a 1st rounder, I think a player of his skill could be found in, say, the 3rd round of a draft (meaning the Pats reached a bit). How much different is Graham from rookie Anthony Fasano, for example? They are similar players - blocking TE's with mediocre hands.

I am in the extend Branch camp, as long as it is somewhere slightly below 5Mill. My reasoning is that there are lots of fast players, but only a few who can run precise routes to get open in the NFL, and also have great hands. Branch is one of those few players, so he is worth paying the money for (just not elite money).

 

[dryheat44]

True. It depends on how much you value Graham. Even though he was a 1st rounder, I think a player of his skill could be found in, say, the 3rd round of a draft (meaning the Pats reached a bit). How much different is Graham from rookie Anthony Fasano, for example? They are similar players - blocking TE's with mediocre hands.

Whoa...stop that foolishness. Fasano is a slow possession receiver, who is not a particularly good blocker.

Graham may not have the best hands, but to call him mediocre (which someone did earlier) in the passing game is ludicrous. What gets lost is Graham's speed and ability to run routes. He will destroy linebacker coverage every time, and all but the best cover safeties as well. He opens things up for the WRs, because he can't be covered one-on-one by a linebacker.

Fasano can be covered one-on-one by most linebackers in the league, and probably a few athletic defensive ends.

And if you switch Branch with, say, Jerry Porter, and let Porter catch passes from Brady and Branch from Kerry Collins, you might not be as impressed with Branch as compared to the average #1/2 WR.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well, as I pointed out in another thread, what would you pay to re-sign Graham?

The franchise tag is @$3.5 mil a season for top tier TE - and the transition tag is $2.7 or so (I looked it up and listed it in another thread but that's just my quick recollection).

For someone like Ben Watson - even knowing that he's all about potential at this point - I'd probably pay that.

For a TE who has primarilly been used as a blocker, that's too rich for my blood.

People talk about the ProFootball Weekly article - citing unnamed sources - but does anyone have a source saying that the Patriots are definately interested in re-sigining him?

All that could be posturing by the team because I can't imagine them paying him even the average amount of the top 10 TEs out there - and maybe they are trying to deflate Graham's market value to get him back into the $1 million range of where he is.

So if Graham will take $1 - $1.5 mil a year I'll hapilly have him back. If he demands $2 million plus, that's a lot of cash for a blocker - especially when BB can plug in a defensive guys when the blocking counts most on the goal line.