Crying over spilled milk: should've drafted DeMarco Murray over Ridley or Vereen

[Deus Irae]

Again, i know that the draft is a crap shoot. And there is no sure thing, even the #1 pick is not a sure thing. I get it, that is why this is me crying over spilled milk,

What makes this miss more frustrating, was that the Pats took 2 RBs in the same range of Murray. Meaning they were thinking RB, looking RB, and picked 2 RBs. So this makes them different than the other 32 teams. I will even say if the Pats didn't take a RB, or only 1 RB in the draft, than I would not be so upset. Maybe our needs or we thought the best Player Available was a LB, or Olineman or whatever, than its not so bad.

But this means they evaluated Rbs, and took 2 at very high picks, and the one guy who could have been the game changer, they missed on. If he was like Arian Foster and came out of no where, that is one thing. But he was rated in the same range of Vareen and Ridley. The Pats could have easily taken him.

First rule of holes

 

[Sicilian]

First rule of holes

When you're in one, stop digging?

 

[Patsrock]

Again, i know that the draft is a crap shoot. And there is no sure thing, even the #1 pick is not a sure thing. I get it, that is why this is me crying over spilled milk,

What makes this miss more frustrating, was that the Pats took 2 RBs in the same range of Murray. Meaning they were thinking RB, looking RB, and picked 2 RBs. So this makes them different than the other 32 teams. I will even say if the Pats didn't take a RB, or only 1 RB in the draft, than I would not be so upset. Maybe our needs or we thought the best Player Available was a LB, or Olineman or whatever, than its not so bad.

But this means they evaluated Rbs, and took 2 at very high picks, and the one guy who could have been the game changer, they missed on. If he was like Arian Foster and came out of no where, that is one thing. But he was rated in the same range of Vareen and Ridley. The Pats could have easily taken him.

Or the simple fact is you like Murray a lot better than the Pats did. And you have no idea how Murray would do in the Pats system.

 

[Deus Irae]

When you're in one, stop digging?

Indeed. He's killing his arguments with his own posts. Here's one example:

There is no excuse for such a lapse in scouting judgement. I mean this was a no brainer, one guy is clearly superior to the other two guys in every facet of the game.

If he was like Arian Foster and came out of no where, that is one thing. But he was rated in the same range of Vareen and Ridley.

 

[Avenger]

Vereen was the best pass catching back in the draft, and runs well too. Could pass block pretty well at Cal. It's frustrating so see him with these nagging injuries though, he had the highest upside for RBs in the draft and wasn't particularly injury prone in college. Ridley is a solid runner and catches pretty well too, I think they will make a solid 1-2 punch especially in the McDaniels offense.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I know I have written this before, and I know there is nothing the Pats can do about this now, and this is just bringing up the past.

One star

Thank you Ian for the Ignore Thread feature!
It's very useful.
Bye!

 

[Rob0729]

Again, i know that the draft is a crap shoot. And there is no sure thing, even the #1 pick is not a sure thing. I get it, that is why this is me crying over spilled milk,

What makes this miss more frustrating, was that the Pats took 2 RBs in the same range of Murray. Meaning they were thinking RB, looking RB, and picked 2 RBs. So this makes them different than the other 32 teams. I will even say if the Pats didn't take a RB, or only 1 RB in the draft, than I would not be so upset. Maybe our needs or we thought the best Player Available was a LB, or Olineman or whatever, than its not so bad.

But this means they evaluated Rbs, and took 2 at very high picks, and the one guy who could have been the game changer, they missed on. If he was like Arian Foster and came out of no where, that is one thing. But he was rated in the same range of Vareen and Ridley. The Pats could have easily taken him.

I don't get your point. So Murray was hit or miss like Ridley and Vereen. That means all three players could go either way and there is no guarantees for either.

Besides, by December, we might be saying thank god the Pats took Ridley instead of Murray. We are talking about comparing these players on one season. A little early to declare the winner here.

 

[BBass]

I cannot agree with you that Murray is superior to Ridley or Vereen. Murray was given a superior opportunity during his rookie year then Ridley or Vereen.

Ridley played 3rd string behind Woody and Benny. Vereen red-shirted. Murray started behind Felix Jones who was out with a injury, they gave Murray all the snaps and he made the most of it. Had a great year till he was injured. I want to see how Ridley and Vereen do with the same level of reps this season and then pass my judgement.

I will say I do not see a superior runner to Ridley based on what I have seen in games and if you roll the 1 game against the 31st ranked rush defense of the Rams in which he ran for 253 yards on 25 carriers you are left with 640 yards on 139 carriers with a 4.6 avg. So statistically I don't see it either.

 

[BBass]

Take a look at his game by game stats and you will also see that he was really struggling in the games leading to his injury, his numbers came in 3-4 game period.

Sun 9/11
@ NYJ
L 24-27 2 0 0.0 0 0 1 13 13.0 13 0 0 0
Sun 9/18
@ SF
W 27-24 (OT) 6 21 3.5 8 0 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0
Mon 9/26
vsWSH
W 18-16 2 6 3.0 6 0 0 0 .0 0 0 0 0
Sun 10/2
vsDET
L 30-34 4 12 3.0 7 0 1 -1 -1.0 -1 0 0 0
Sun 10/16
@ NE
L 16-20 11 34 3.1 8 0 1 7 7.0 7 0 0 0
Sun 10/23
vsSTL
W 34-7 25 253 10.1 91 1 0 0 .0 0 0 0 0
Sun 10/30
@ PHI
L 7-34 8 74 9.3 26 0 1 -2 -2.0 -2 0 0 0
Sun 11/6
vsSEA
W 23-13 22 139 6.3 32 0 4 47 11.8 17 0 0 0
Sun 11/13
vsBUF
W 44-7 20 135 6.8 25 1 6 36 6.0 17 0 1 0
Sun 11/20
@ WSH
W 27-24 (OT) 25 73 2.9 8 0 6 32 5.3 14 0 0 0
Thu 11/24
vsMIA
W 20-19 22 87 4.0 18 0 4 41 10.3 18 0 0 0
Sun 12/4
@ ARI
L 13-19 (OT) 12 38 3.2 7 0 0 0 .0 0 0 0 0
Sun 12/11
vsNYG
L 34-37 5 25 5.0 9 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 0 0
REGULAR SEASON STATS 164 897 5.5 91 2 26 183 7.0 18 0 1 0

 

[Joey007]

If you're crying about spilled milk over this, I gotta wonder what you were like after our 2006 and 2007 drafts.

 

[JJDChE]

I like Murray a lot, but Ridley looks pretty freaking good. I'm super high on what Ridley can do this year. I'm expecting well over 1,000 yds from Mr. Ridley, so I'm going to wait on calling Murray the victor.

Regardless of my Ridley man love, this thread is all really about knocking the Pats for crappy drafting, but they could have had Murray rated higher and been targeting him at 73, or even been trying to trade up but couldn't find a partner. We just don't know. That makes the OP double stupid for posting this. 1.) We don't really know who is the better back yet, 2.) We don't have any idea where the Pats had Murray slotted on their draft board.

 

[Ring 6]

Listen I know the draft is a crap shoot, and guys like Brady, Warner, etc. fall through the cracks every year. But the Pats were clearly targeting Rbs in 2011, and spent two straight picks on them, (I guess in theory Murray was taken two picks ahead of Ridley, so they didnt pass over him twice), I am sure Murray was on their board, and they whiffed. But if you are targeting a position, and take two RBs in a row, you have to take the best rb in the draft with at least one of those picks, if he is available. This is not a case of teams passing on Brady etc.

Listen, nothing they can do about this now, but when BB watches this guy run all over a defense they he couldn't sniff a running game against in the Super Bowl, it has to make him regret the 2011 draft. I understand systems make players, a lot of the time, and maybe if he was in NE he would be producing similarly to the guys the Pats have, but I somehow doubt that BB would see this kids talent, and not find a way to give him the ball 15-20 times a game.

The old drafting in hindsight approach. Always a winner.

 

[Ring 6]

Take a look at his game by game stats and you will also see that he was really struggling in the games leading to his injury, his numbers came in 3-4 game period.

Sun 9/11
@ NYJ
L 24-27 2 0 0.0 0 0 1 13 13.0 13 0 0 0
Sun 9/18
@ SF
W 27-24 (OT) 6 21 3.5 8 0 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0
Mon 9/26
vsWSH
W 18-16 2 6 3.0 6 0 0 0 .0 0 0 0 0
Sun 10/2
vsDET
L 30-34 4 12 3.0 7 0 1 -1 -1.0 -1 0 0 0
Sun 10/16
@ NE
L 16-20 11 34 3.1 8 0 1 7 7.0 7 0 0 0
Sun 10/23
vsSTL
W 34-7 25 253 10.1 91 1 0 0 .0 0 0 0 0
Sun 10/30
@ PHI
L 7-34 8 74 9.3 26 0 1 -2 -2.0 -2 0 0 0
Sun 11/6
vsSEA
W 23-13 22 139 6.3 32 0 4 47 11.8 17 0 0 0
Sun 11/13
vsBUF
W 44-7 20 135 6.8 25 1 6 36 6.0 17 0 1 0
Sun 11/20
@ WSH
W 27-24 (OT) 25 73 2.9 8 0 6 32 5.3 14 0 0 0
Thu 11/24
vsMIA
W 20-19 22 87 4.0 18 0 4 41 10.3 18 0 0 0
Sun 12/4
@ ARI
L 13-19 (OT) 12 38 3.2 7 0 0 0 .0 0 0 0 0
Sun 12/11
vsNYG
L 34-37 5 25 5.0 9 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 0 0
REGULAR SEASON STATS 164 897 5.5 91 2 26 183 7.0 18 0 1 0

55-466 in 3 games vs StL, Philly, Seattle
Without those he is 109-431-3.95ypc
I don't think 3 games determines a career.

 

[Mogamedogz]

While typically I never miss out an opportunity to voice my displeasure with Bill's apparent mental block as it applies to evaluating/drafting stud quality offensive skill position players.. You can't fault him for missing out on this kid. So did 31 other teams.

You know who else he missed out on?

Greg Jennings
MJD
Hakeem Nicks
Mike Wallace
Amad Bradshaw
Frank Gore

The list is endless really.

You can’t be mad at him for guys that he doesn’t select. Critique him for the bums he DOES select (Vereen) if you want something to complain about.

 

[shmessy]

No, he doesn't. Frankly, his point is pretty much self-refuting. And the reason that Brady went in round six is because 32 teams didn't think he was clearly the best QB in the draft and destined to be a HOF player.

......and almost every team made that same statement 6 times in that draft!

Perhaps the OP should have learned by now that drafting is a VERY inexact "science".

 

[WhiZa]

I thought Murray was the 2nd best back out of that draft after Ingram. He had it all from speed, cutting, size, and even catching the ball. He's downside was his injury history and the fact the Pats had room for more than just one back they decided to take two HEALTHY RBs that could share the load.

The bottom line is Murray is only going as far as his knees take him. Would you rather have Vareen and Ridley for 10 years or Murray for 5? Pats are always thinking long term.

 

[Claremonster]

I know I have written this before, and I know there is nothing the Pats can do about this now, and this is just bringing up the past.

But.....

How can the Pats scouting department and BB, look at Steven Ridley and Shane Vareen, and think either one was a better prospect than Demarco Murray. This screw up cannot be overlooked. can you imagine the dimension he would have brought to the Pats offense.

When you watch him run, and you watch Ridley run, I can't help but ask the Pats, what were you thinking!!!!, and saying that over and over again. There is no excuse for such a lapse in scouting judgement. I mean this was a no brainer, one guy is clearly superior to the other two guys in every facet of the game. he must of scored low on a Wonderlic test or something.

Can some reporter ask the Pats what they saw in the 2 backs they have chosen over Murray? ,and also outside of BB if the person or people who help make the call, were fired, or at least reprimanded by the team.

You should tell BB to fire his scouting dept. and hire you instead.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Sooooo.......we're giving them one season?

2008 rookie season: 268 attempts, 1,282 yards, 4.8 ypc, 9 TDs

2008 rookie season: 107 attempts, 454 yards, 4.2 ypc, 0 TDs

The first stat line is for then Texans RB Steve Slaton.
The second stat line is for Ravens RB Ray Rice, taken a full round earlier than Slaton.

To think of what the Ravens missed out on....... :enranged:

 

[Dodie]

it's part of the game I guess and that's what makes it interesting, otherwise it'll be boring if we'll have the power to predict everything lol

but our RB health issues are really alarming smh

 

[patchick]

So many reactions to this. Here are a few:

- Murray was the 5th RB selected, a mid third-rounder. That was right in line with his pre-draft projections. Yet the Patriots were inexcusable idiots for not taking this obvious, obvious stud in round 2? Hmm.

- The #1 most popular fan choice in the PatsFans draft contest in 2011, among all players at all positions was...Shane Vereen. Those who didn't like the Vereen pick typically wanted Mikel Leshoure instead. (Remind me again how Murray was the obvious, obvious stud?)

- On day two in 2011, the Patriots drafted a player who could have been a first-round stud if not for injuries, and he ended up on IR. This led to countless angry screeds about what idiots they were for wasting a pick on a guy with that kind of injury history. But now we have an angry screed for NOT drafting day-two a player who could have been a first-round stud if not for injuries, and who ended up on IR!

- The fact that you realized "oops, this entire premise was false, Murray was actually drafted before Ridley" but then decided that was somehow irrelevant doesn't reflect very well on your argument.

- Murray may well end up the steal of the 2011 draft, or he might not. Time will tell. Regardless, the fact that a good player was drafted elsewhere is never a meaningful slam on a whole draft organization.

Every single pick is a gamble. As with any long-term gambling exercise, you have to look at total results over time. One Tom Brady doesn't make you a draft genius, and one Chad Jackson doesn't make you a draft dunce.