Crying over spilled milk: should've drafted DeMarco Murray over Ridley or Vereen

[Sicilian]

Wouldn't that go for Brady too??? peterpat has a very good point.

No, because the point is that it's impossible to know who's actually going to turn into the next greatest thing. Thus, when you look at something in hindsight, you can't say it was an obvious gaffe by the Patriots to not take Murray, when there were questions enough that every team passed on him... twice.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Than why did the Pats draft Gronk, if durability is such a concern for this team.. the reason why players like Gronk and Murray fall to the 2nd or 3rd round is because of injury issues in college. And I know he got hurt last year, but that injury was a basic football injury that anyone would have gotten hurt, that was not a durability injury. That is like saying Gronk is injury prone, because Pollard rolled over his ankle in the AFCC game, and he was not healthy for the SB.

Not to mention they spent two picks on RBs, when you do that, you let yourself take a risk than on one of them.

Because not all injuries are alike. Obviously the Pats evaluated Gronk and thought he was worth the risk. And they either thought Murray wasn't worth the risk or maybe they didn't think he was that good. But the reason he had a third round grade was because he couldn't prove that he could stay healthy in college. And I really liked him coming out and had him in many of my mocks coming out. I still think he is more talented than Vereen and Ridley, but I can also see why they would have passed on him. It's easy for us to say they should have taken a risk on the guy but we aren't paying him millions of dollars or risking our jobs on a wrong evaluation. Injuries are a part of football but some guys just get hurt more than others. Whethers it's a durability issue or just bad luck, a player on the sidelines is no use to a team.

 

[PatsFan2]

Ridley has pro bowl potential IMO. It is not fair for you to judge him until he has had the chance to be the number one guy. He is about to get that chance. Further, Murray is made of glass.

I don't think a injury history weighs on anything Gronk - Kaczur and Vollmer all had a history of back problems...the Pats Drafted them. Ras-I Dowling was a mash unit to say the least...they drafted him. Stop making excuses. peter is saying that the Pats had a need at the position and missed on a potentially great player.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

We could say the same thing for Brandon Tate over Mike Wallace??? The Patriots scouting department have really flunked in the WR and RB departments. Hopefully Ridley will prove me wrong but as of now their evaluation of young RB's get an F+ and their evaluation of young WR's gets Z-.:snob:

Too bad we didn't draft Mike Wallace.

Maybe the Patriots could then have an offense that's 21/21 in scoring and turnovers.

When you have explosive who cares if you don't score and always turn the ball over.

 

[Danger Zone]

It seems as if the Red Sox first fans are moving in here early this year.

They're going to be squatting for another year I'm guessing

I like baseball, but not when I'm jonesing for anything football and all I ever seem to catch the local sports radio talking about is the Red Sox.


EDIT: Over a year old, but still good for cleaning out some of that greener grass from your eyes.

(And I personally feel we hit big on our 2012 draft class).

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/decade-the-making-the-ultimate-nfl-draft-grades/2419/

 

[Rob0729]

How could every team pass on Arian Foster seven plus times in the draft when there had to be at least a half dozen to dozen teams who needed a RB?

The reason why the Pats passed on Murray (as well as many other teams who wanted a RB) are many. Murray was injury prone in college. He had a minor fumbling problem. He admitted that his offseason commitment to improving was lacking in years prior to his senior year. He was no slam dunk coming out of college.

 

[Sicilian]

I don't think a injury history weighs on anything Gronk - Kaczur and Vollmer all had a history of back problems...the Pats Drafted them. Ras-I Dowling was a mash unit to say the least...they drafted him. Stop making excuses. peter is saying that the Pats had a need at the position and missed on a potentially great player.

Ignoring the fact that he's extrapolating Murray's career after half a season, he then tried to start an inquisition as to how they could possibly even THINK of passing on this surefire DeMarco Murray. No one has to answer for this "screw-up", because if Murray were the clear frontrunner to the point where passing on him is such an obvious blunder, someone would have taken him top ten (because that's where the can't miss backs go in this league).

 

[PatsFan2]

Ignoring the fact that he's extrapolating Murray's career after half a season, he then tried to start an inquisition as to how they could possibly even THINK of passing on this surefire DeMarco Murray. No one has to answer for this "screw-up", because if Murray were the clear frontrunner to the point where passing on him is such an obvious blunder, someone would have taken him top ten (because that's where the can't miss backs go in this league).

Same could be said for Gronk if we knew what we know now...you are not making a good case.

 

[PatsFan2]

Seriously though the Gronk pick healed alot of wounds on the Offensive blunders of the Patriots over the years especially at WR. Gronk is an will probably be the Best Offensive pick by BB since Brady.

 

[woolster22]

I don't think a injury history weighs on anything Gronk - Kaczur and Vollmer all had a history of back problems...the Pats Drafted them. Ras-I Dowling was a mash unit to say the least...they drafted him. Stop making excuses. peter is saying that the Pats had a need at the position and missed on a potentially great player.

And different teams have different levels of risk they are willing to take.

Seems to me that rb would be one position where injuries must be taken more seriously. These guys take a pounding, and their average career length shows that. Two years of heavy reliance on one back leaves him a shell of his former self.

Having a significant injury history before getting to the big time doesn't bode well for setting healthy, let alone playing out a rookie contract. Factor in playing one of the most physically degrading positions and suddenly the risk looks a lot more like reality rather than possibility. So is a flash in the pan, hurt every season, two team rental where you go, or do you look at the healthier alternatives?

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sicilian]

Same could be said for Gronk if we knew what we know now...you are not making a good case.

I think my case is fine, you just seem to want BB and the Pats held up to standards of clairvoyance that the rest of the league doesn't have either. Murray may turn out to be the better player, but the tone of the OP is one of outrage and exasperation for a mistake that 1) hasn't even been proven a mistake yet, and 2) was made by every team in the league twice.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think my case is fine, you just seem to want BB and the Pats held up to standards of clairvoyance that the rest of the league doesn't have either. Murray may turn out to be the better player, but the tone of the OP is one of outrage and exasperation for a mistake that 1) hasn't even been proven a mistake yet, and 2) was made by every team in the league twice.

Lets just agree to dissagree and leave it at that...really happy the season started last night.

 

[Sicilian]

Lets just agree to dissagree and leave it at that...really happy the season started last night.

Fine by me

 

[Rob0729]

Than why did the Pats draft Gronk, if durability is such a concern for this team.. the reason why players like Gronk and Murray fall to the 2nd or 3rd round is because of injury issues in college. And I know he got hurt last year, but that injury was a basic football injury that anyone would have gotten hurt, that was not a durability injury. That is like saying Gronk is injury prone, because Pollard rolled over his ankle in the AFCC game, and he was not healthy for the SB.

Not to mention they spent two picks on RBs, when you do that, you let yourself take a risk than on one of them.

First, not all players are equal. It is generally considered that Gronkowski would have been a high to mid first round pick if he didn't have his back injury. I don't know if anyone would have considered Murray a high first round pick if he wasn't injury prone in college.

Second, Murray is injury prone because he missed time every year in college except for his senior year. It wasn't just because of last year. Gronk had a major back injury in college, but was healthy otherwise.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Listen I know the draft is a crap shoot, and guys like Brady, Warner, etc. fall through the cracks every year. But the Pats were clearly targeting Rbs in 2011, and spent two straight picks on them, (I guess in theory Murray was taken two picks ahead of Ridley, so they didnt pass over him twice), I am sure Murray was on their board, and they whiffed. But if you are targeting a position, and take two RBs in a row, you have to take the best rb in the draft with at least one of those picks, if he is available. This is not a case of teams passing on Brady etc.

Listen, nothing they can do about this now, but when BB watches this guy run all over a defense they he couldn't sniff a running game against in the Super Bowl, it has to make him regret the 2011 draft. I understand systems make players, a lot of the time, and maybe if he was in NE he would be producing similarly to the guys the Pats have, but I somehow doubt that BB would see this kids talent, and not find a way to give him the ball 15-20 times a game.

Well let's give Ridley a full season as a starter before we go declaring Murray as a 'hands down' better pick. BJGE was our starter in 2011 even though Ridley got a share of the carries.

I think it's way too early to 'reprimand' the Pats scouting department for drafting Vereen and Ridley instead of Murray. Vereen hasn't been healthy enough to play and Ridley may yet turn out to be a 1,000 yard back when given starter minutes.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, I hate Monday Morning QBing on the draft. The draft is a crapshoot and no pick is an 100% homerun. That is why there are plenty top 10 draft pick busts.

If Murray was a slam dunk pick or even close, there is no way he would have lasted until the third round. He had significant question marks just like any other pick that drops to the third round.

People bring up their binkie draft picks that the Pats pass on when those binkies work out, but always seem to forget the binkies who end up being disapointments or outright busts.

 

[Rob0729]

Well let's give Ridley a full season as a starter before we go declaring Murray as a 'hands down' better pick. BJGE was our starter in 2011 even though Ridley got a share of the carries.

I think it's way too early to 'reprimand' the Pats scouting department for drafting Vereen and Ridley instead of Murray. Vereen hasn't been healthy enough to play and Ridley may yet turn out to be a 1,000 yard back when given starter minutes.

Yeah, Ridley has shown some signs that he can be a big play maker. We need to see him get the chance before we make any judgements.

BTW, the Cowboys spent several fairly high draft picks over the last decade to get their stud RB. They spend a first of Felix Jones, a fourth on Marion Barber, a second on Julius Jones, and a fourth on Tashard Choice. So they had to get it wrong multiple times before they got it right.

Also, both Barber and Jones were flash in the pan type of RBs. Each were good for a short period of time and then fell off. There is a possibility Murray could follow that mold.

 

[Sicilian]

Yeah, Ridley has shown some signs that he can be a big play maker. We need to see him get the chance before we make any judgements.

BTW, the Cowboys spent several fairly high draft picks over the last decade to get their stud RB. They spend a first of Felix Jones, a fourth on Marion Barber, a second on Julius Jones, and a fourth on Tashard Choice. So they had to get it wrong multiple times before they got it right.

Also, both Barber and Jones were flash in the pan type of RBs. Each were good for a short period of time and then fell off. There is a possibility Murray could follow that mold.

That actually seems to be common amongst running backs, especially feature backs. It seems to have the quickest drop off from stud to dud of any position in the NFL.

 

[Rob0729]

That actually seems to be common amongst running backs, especially feature backs. It seems to have the quickest drop off from stud to dud of any position in the NFL.

That's true, but both Barber and Jones were very flash in the pan. Barber really only had two good seasons and one decent one (BTW, the hope for Ridley and Vereen is that he didn't hit until his third season).

Felix Jones hit his second year and started to become injury prone since.

 

[Peter Pat]

Again, i know that the draft is a crap shoot. And there is no sure thing, even the #1 pick is not a sure thing. I get it, that is why this is me crying over spilled milk,

What makes this miss more frustrating, was that the Pats took 2 RBs in the same range of Murray. Meaning they were thinking RB, looking RB, and picked 2 RBs. So this makes them different than the other 32 teams. I will even say if the Pats didn't take a RB, or only 1 RB in the draft, than I would not be so upset. Maybe our needs or we thought the best Player Available was a LB, or Olineman or whatever, than its not so bad.

But this means they evaluated Rbs, and took 2 at very high picks, and the one guy who could have been the game changer, they missed on. If he was like Arian Foster and came out of no where, that is one thing. But he was rated in the same range of Vareen and Ridley. The Pats could have easily taken him.