Could Pete Carroll have turned it around in NE?

[patfanken]

On pete last year here when he was 8-8 Adam missed 2 easy 4th quarter fg.
One was against bills a 31 yarder and the other last play of game against KC.
He could have been 10-6.

Its amazing how impactfull Adam has been in Pats history. Not only with the great kicks he made, but in the ones he missed. At 10-6 Pete Carrol would never have been fired, and thus BB would have been forced to stay with the Jets, and BOY would history have changed.

IMHO, Carroll is a better coach than he is gets credit for. He was a victim here of a horrible GM who had control over player selection, and he was also the victim of some bad injury situations, and that doesn't include having to start Scott Zolack in a playoff game. Can you think of a worse 3 year run of draft picks than the ones we got in those 3 years???

HE was also a victim of the sarcastic, image conscious media, who constantly harped on his enthusiasm and energy. His success at USC isn't simply luck. That program was in complete disarray before he showed up. I doubt he will have the success BB's enjoyed, but it would be a mistake to underestimate him. Personally I hope he does well.

 

[BadMoFo]

Wow, what a snake Carroll is.

Source: Two-year postseason ban for USC football - ESPN Los Angeles

Throwing stones in glass houses? This was us three years ago.

 

[TruthSeeker]

This morning on Mike & Mike someone said that Tedy Bruschi said that if Pete Carroll had been granted one more year in New England, he could've turned it around.



I like Pete, and I supported him when a lot of other Pats fans were calling for his head. But I thought the general consensus was that by the end of the '99 season, most of the players had given up on him. I especially remember the game at Philadelphia, everyone said the players didn't seem to give a darn.

Plus there's his record - 10-6, 9-7, 8-8... So am I missing something?

No, you're not missing anything.

And the mistake that was made after Parcells left was corrected with the hiring of BB.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Pete would never have turned it around here. His W-L performance here was decreasing. During the emotional height of the Border Wars, Parcells & BB knew just how to defeat a Bledsoe QB'd, Carroll coached Pats team. He was an emotional, players coach who was losing his influence on the team. He like Herm Edwards was constantly puzzeled and confused by gameday situations and decisions.

That said, some people study their weaknesses and improve their approach. If he's done so, he's intelligent and may be a decent change for the Seahags. Should prove entertaining.

 

[TrueBeliever]

Wow, what a snake Carroll is.

Source: Two-year postseason ban for USC football - ESPN Los Angeles

It's almost like karma that Kiffin now gets stuck with dealing with all of the consequences of Pete's shenanigans.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Having watched that train wreck, I highly doubt that Carroll would have turned it around!
Not with Greir running the Pats drafts. The one thing i do know is that Bobby Greir was the worst talent evaluator of college players in the history of this franchise.
I hear so much pissing and moaning on this board about BB's lack of success. Just take a look at Greir's last couple of drafts.

It was like being a Jets fan on draft day watching the crap he picked!

But Woody and Tannenbaum have figured out how to remedy that Jester drafting myopia. They trade their entire draft for one or two very high picks who "can't fail", or aging veterans. Pats fans constantly criticize a mid-decade draft, when the Pats got nothing but pro bowler Meriwether; because they traded the draft for both a HOF and a ProBowl WRs, to augment a Superbowl club for the final push. It worked to get a 16-0 season, and a Superbowl berth, too.

The JEST have been doing that exact same thing for half a decade, or even longer. They have had success too. Look at ILB David Harris, and CB Darell Revis, and all timers like DL Robertson and OLB Gholston. "Can't miss" trade up selections all. And also Kellen Clemons, Bret Favre, and the Sanchize hiself.

They can now ALMOST field a competent starting 22.

Last year they had no significant injuries, and it worked with lots of Colt help, to go to an actual winning season at 9-7. Jabba Wrecks decided to do his own injuries to the squad, getting rid of Thomas Jones and Leon Washington, 2/3 of their running game; and then disposed of a ProBowl guard and replaced him with a Rookie.

The only problem is that a team wears down with only two additions every year, as the paper thin, JEST "May Superbowlers" will discover. Meanwhile, the Mediots have all jumped aboard as they know predictions of Jets Superbowls, will produce lots of sales and ratings, for their tongue-in-cheek efforts.

 

[dhamz]

Last year they had no significant injuries, and it worked with lots of Colt help, to go to an actual winning season at 9-7. Jabba Wrecks decided to do his own injuries to the squad, getting rid of Thomas Jones and Leon Washington, 2/3 of their running game; and then disposed of a ProBowl guard and replaced him with a Rookie.

So in one sentence they had no significant injuries last year. In the next, they are going to have issues because they got rid of Leon Washington. Something doesn't add up there.

 

[AzPatsFan]

So in one sentence they had no significant injuries last year. In the next, they are going to have issues because they got rid of Leon Washington. Something doesn't add up there.

I said "significant" injuries for that specific reason. When did they lose Leon? And who else was there at that one specific position, where they USED TO have depth, but not anymore?

As for other significant self-induced wrecking, I could point to Wreck's wreck of the Safety depth by getting rid of ex-probowler Kerry Rhodes. He repaired it, by drafting another rookie in Kyle Wilson at CB, or was Cromartie supposedly a help, or just a patch in place of dumped Lito Sheppard?

 

[lillestroom]

Why the knocking of Bledsoe here? He did a remarkable job in what I regard as p1ss poor conditions.

As a QB he led the team and tried to hold it together under Carroll. Lesser men would have folded, and we'd have been 3-13 rather than 8-8

 

[LasVegasPatsFan]

He was canned after one season with the Jets. 6-10 record. Yeah, he would have turned the Pats around...heading towards the door. He was only successful at USC because every top player wanted to play there. He wont be in the NFL more than 2 years.

 

[stinkypete]

In Bruschi's mind, that team would have turned it around under any coach. That's just how Bruschi rolls, he's a coaches' player, the ultimate team guy.

When Carrol was fired, the team already had Bruschi, Willy Mac, Troy Brown, Ty Law, Lawyer, Ted Johnson, Faulk, Tebucky...essentially the core of the defensive back 7 that stopped the greatet show on turf, on top of 2 of Brady's early favorite go to guys. So, yes, if Bruschi believes that those guys would be the great players and the veteran leaders that they became, regardless of coach, then Carrol could have turned it around.

Of course, if Carrol sticks around, no switch to the 3-4, so no Vrabel, David Terrell probably gets drafted instead of Seymour, and Bledsoe plays out his contract.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Gotta respect Bruschi's opinion on anything football and especially anything Patriots.

But, for an outside observer, this is about something too long ago to be able to know anything. It's a guess wrapped inside a hypothetical.

 

[loosebearing]

Some here forget that Carroll had the team going backwards ... not forwards.

1997 > 10-6

1998 > 9-7

1999 > 8-8

2000 > 5-11 (with Bledsoe)

2001 > SUPERBOWL

That's a turnaround. Would it have happened one year earlier with Pete - you gutta be sh**ting me.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, had Robert Edwards not blown out his knee, the Pats would've easily made the playoffs in '99 and quite possibly BB is coaching somewhere else. It was the game between the NY Jets and New England Patriots on Monday night that put BB back in the spotlight. The announcers kept giving him so much props for stopping the hot Patriots' offense. That was the game that gave the rest of the NFL the blueprint in stopping the Pats offense and pretty much derailed their season.

 

[loosebearing]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, had Robert Edwards not blown out his knee, the Pats would've easily made the playoffs in '99 and quite possibly BB is coaching somewhere else. It was the game between the NY Jets and New England Patriots on Monday night that put BB back in the spotlight. The announcers kept giving him so much props for stopping the hot Patriots' offense. That was the game that gave the rest of the NFL the blueprint in stopping the Pats offense and pretty much derailed their season.

If my father had been Bill Gates - yada yada yada

Woulda Coulda Shoulda

"You are what you are" Bill somebody

 

[captain stone]

This morning on Mike & Mike someone said that Tedy Bruschi said that if Pete Carroll had been granted one more year in New England, he could've turned it around.



I like Pete, and I supported him when a lot of other Pats fans were calling for his head. But I thought the general consensus was that by the end of the '99 season, most of the players had given up on him. I especially remember the game at Philadelphia, everyone said the players didn't seem to give a darn.

Plus there's his record - 10-6, 9-7, 8-8... So am I missing something?

No, no you're not. Tedy's just sticking up for a guy whom he prob. liked very much as a person, and who prob. taught him a bit about playing defense. But Pete just wasn't ready to be the HC of the NEP.

Regarding the Eagles game: Wasn't that where Larry Whigham blocked a punt, stopped to admire himself, and forgot to notice that the Eagles could - and did - advance the forwardly-blocked ball for a 1st down?

 

[captain stone]

Think back to the game where Carroll was frantically calling for timeout on the sidelines and all his players - even Bledsoe - looked right at him and ignored him. He accepted that insubordination and it was the end. I supported him right up until then.

Carroll's success as a head coach has more to do with recruiting success than anything else, and beyond any assertions of indescretions in his methodology in that realm, the fact that he was inviting the nation's best players to come and play for a laid back coach in a laid back state, at a laid back college with beautiful California girls and the high hopes of... well, getting laid...

... and it's not tough to understand why the nation's best players were inclined to come and play at USC. Don't get me wrong - it's not like he still couldn't botch that up, but he had a helluva head start over other teams given the caliber of playing he was using.

Those "recruiting" techniques, nor style of leadership are going to work in the NFL.

Sorry Seattle. He wouldn't have turned it around here and I doubt he will there.

He did, after all, allow himself to lose to Vince "9 Wonderlic" Young, fer crap's sake.

 

[captain stone]

Pete Carrol will be coaching at Notre Dame by 2013. I don't despise the guy, but I just don't think he's cut out for the NFL unless he's a DC.

I think ND has found itself a pretty good coach already. Pete's services there will not be needed, nor requested.

 

[captain stone]

I guess Tedy has started drinking in the morning.

Post of the Day candidate.

 

[captain stone]

Not sure the board is right on this one.

At least not when it comes to Carroll in general--I agree it was too late for him to shift the tide in New England.

He's got a good football mind, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. The problem, everyone seems to agree, is that "rah rah" doesn't work in the NFL.

Not sure if that's true. There are emotional guys (eg, Bill Cowher) who have succeeded, won Super Bowls. The bigger problem with Carroll with the Pats was his authority was undercut--by Bobby Grier, which was allowed by Kraft. The same Grier--or "BG" has the players called him when they ran up the back stairs to talk to him instead of the Coach--who was drafting bad players that would have killed any team, any coach.

Look, thank God that happened--he wasn't winning 3 Super Bowls like Belichick, obviously. But he's older, still has football saavy, and will likely not be undercut again. I give him a fighting chance in Seattle.

Fair points, esp. about Booby Grier.