Contracts to deal with

[mgteich]

Edelman had a broken foot during free agency so he was on the market for a while, likely factoring into us bringing him back at the minimum.

Edelman's injury did factor in. Also, the fact that no one else but the giants had any interest at all factored in. The bottom line is that Edelman was brought back to be a backup. To put this in perspective, the week we signed Edelman, we also made an offer to Sanders.

 

[Ivan]

The best way to evaluate Amendola is to remove his biggest catches and then look at him.

Matter of fact that's the best way to evaluate any player.

 

[Ivan]

What's not hard to understand that backups get paid backup money and starters get paid starters money especially when a team is faced with salary cap overages.

And players with something to prove get restructured deals that are incentive laden.

 

[mgteich]

When a player does not meet "future performance", he is asked to take a pay cut. Ask former New England Patriots wide receivers Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson and Brandon Lloyd about pay cuts. Ask former New England Patriot safety Lawyer Milloy about pay cuts. Ask former New England Patriots offensive guard Logan Mankins about pay cuts.

Either take a pay cut or hit the road, jack.

In including Milloy, all you are showing is that patriots cut players who won't play for what they are willing to pay them. That isn't news.

However, your strategy of paying starter pay or vet minimum and little in-between is not generally the method of the patriots. In this case, IMHO, the team will offer more than that, with significant incentives for performance.

 

[Brady6]

Edelman's injury did factor in. Also, the fact that no one else but the giants had any interest at all factored in. The bottom line is that Edelman was brought back to be a backup. To put this in perspective, the week we signed Edelman, we also made an offer to Sanders.

So in 2012 Edelman played in 9 games and had 21 catches for 235 yards and 3 touchdowns, we paid him $750K to return as a backup. Edelman was also 26 years old at the time, and a great ST player.

However you think Amendola who is entering his 30s, played in 16 games had 27 catches for 200 yards for 1 touchdown is worth much more than $1.5M?

I am not seeing the logic here.

 

[mgteich]

Did two rookies starting on the offensive line for the New England Patriots during the 2005 NFL Season work for you especially after the departures of Andruzzi and Klemm:

Mankins
Kaczur

Most folks here did not like Kaczur at all.

In any case, pointing to the successful strategies of the 2005 team seems misplaced. But yes, the team was in a bind and used two top draft choices. So, yes, of course, Belichick starts rookies if he has too.

Of course, you didn't respond to what I actually posted, but that's not really new. My objection was to planning to start a rookie with Kline as the backup. I have no problem at all with draft a rookie high in the draft with the expectation that he will start with Connolly as the backup if he isn't ready.

To me, the best situation is indeed to draft an OL good enough to start at LG. Connolly would be the game day interior line backup, one of the very best in the league. In this scenario, Fleming might be pushing Wendell for his starting RG spot.

 

[ATippett56]

And players with something to prove get restructured deals that are incentive laden.

That was not the case for Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...id/4719728/analysis-of-ochocincos-restructure

 

[ATippett56]

Most folks here did not like Kaczur at all.

In any case, pointing to the successful strategies of the 2005 team seems misplaced. But yes, the team was in a bind and used two top draft choices. So, yes, of course, Belichick starts rookies if he has too.

Of course, you didn't respond to what I actually posted, but that's not really new. My objection was to planning to start a rookie with Kline as the backup. I have no problem at all with draft a rookie high in the draft with the expectation that he will start with Connolly as the backup if he isn't ready.

To me, the best situation is indeed to draft an OL good enough to start at LG. Connolly would be the game day interior line backup, one of the very best in the league. In this scenario, Fleming might be pushing Wendell for his starting RG spot.

What I have read throughout the forum is the following:

No one is willing to make any concessions whatsoever on any impending unrestricted free agent while the New England Patriots are currently over the salary cap for the 2015 NFL Season.

http://www.patscap.com/

As of January 31 the Patriots have a total of $147,231,728 devoted to projected to be 65 signed or tendered players. The Patriots have $4,616,819 in dead money. $147,231,978 + $4,616,819 = $151,848,547 in total cap commitments. I am projecting that the Patriots will make tender offers to all 5 ERFAs. The 2015 League cap is projected to be $146 million. My current projection for the Patriots 2015 adjusted cap number is $147,879,554. $146,000,000 (Projected League Cap) + $6,442,054 (2014 CarryOver Amount) - $4,562,500 (LTBE/NLTBE adjustment) = $147,879,554. $151,848,547 minus $147,879,554 = $(3,968,993) overage. I am using $146 million as the Projected League Cap since the Cowboys owner Jerry Jones predicts that number and the NFLPA is using a 10% incease in its RFA tender numbers.

No offense to Miguel but I would prefer Robert Kraft to predict a salary cap figure instead of Jerry Jones.

 

[mgteich]

So in 2012 Edelman played in 9 games and had 21 catches for 235 yards and 3 touchdowns, we paid him $750K to return as a backup. Edelman was also 26 years old at the time, and a great ST player.

However you think Amendola who is entering his 30s, played in 16 games had 27 catches for 200 yards for 1 touchdown is worth much more than $1.5M?

I am not seeing the logic here.

I didn't make the patriot decision in 2012. I do NOT think that it was reasonable to risk him singing somewhere else for a million so. I thought that he should have been re-signed at the same time as Amendola (perhaps after a week looking at the market). The reality is that the patriots tucked it to Edelman, and refused to pay him as more than a end of the bench backup.

The differences between Edelman then and Amendola now is that Edelman was injured and also that Amendola is under contract. So yes, a healthy Edelman was worth much more than $1.5M then, and a healthy Amendola is worth more than $1.5M now.

BTW, we'll see soon. I don't have a clue with regard to how much the patriots will offer Amendola. I would say that an agent that recommends acceptance of a contract of $1M with $500K of incentives should probably be fired. If this is the best offer by the patriots, and it very well might be, then Amendola will likely do what Edelman did in 2012. He will test the market. Maybe no one will be interested and Amendola will come back begging to be signed to a minimum contract.

That's what agents and markets are for. Amendola can get analysis from his agent and recommendations. And then, if market information is needed, he can refuse the patriot offer. Of course, the patriots can play hardball and not cut Amendola until training Camp (risking injury). I would think that Amendola could get a $1M contract with $500K incentives from someone in August if that's the way it plays out. There's always someone wanting a healthy veteran receiver.

 

[Marinlik]

Well the $1M takes into consideration we have given him $11.9M for 2 seasons of mediocre performance, so if we give him $1M it is essentially a 3-year/$12.9M contract, which is $4.3M per season, which in my opinion is still significantly overpaid. I would give him $1M for a base and keep his $500K in incentives, any more than that he can walk. He is not going to get a much better offer than that on the UFA market, it is a good UFA market and a deep draft.

You shouldn't count past payments for future contracts. There really is no logic to doing that. You just end up with numbers that are bad both for the player and for the team.

 

[Brady6]

This is my issue, and it is not Amendola, he is a fine player, good kick returner, solid depth WR. He made some plays in the playoffs, and helped us win. My issue is the fans of Danny Amendola are too extreme, everything he does is overvalued, and polarized, it is not good enough that people want him back at a reduced salary, you need to argue that he is worth $X and make him sound as if he is a highly desired free agent if he goes to the market. It is over the top, and it is consistently the problem whenever an Amendola discussion opens up. Posters become highly defensive and sensitive, their irrational and cannot consider any logic, it makes Amendola impossible to even discuss in a realistic and reasonable fashion.

The fact of the matter is, is that Amendola being the biggest topic on a team that has other contracts such as Revis, Wilfork, McCourty, Mayo, etc. to consider is a ****ing joke, a complete joke in fact, he is the #3 WR on the team, he had 1 catch or less in more than 50% of the games this season. I mean do you realize how insignificant Danny Amendola is to this team, how replaceable his production is, how little aside from maybe 2-3 games he did for this team during his tenure here? He is not worthy of this much talk, I saw a thread title with Revis and Amendola in it, I almost started to tear up I was laughing so hard at those 2 players being held in the same company. It is a joke, and an embarrassment to this board that we (me included) spend this much time on a player that means so little.

The differences between Edelman then and Amendola now is that Edelman was injured and also that Amendola is under contract. So yes, a healthy Edelman was worth much more than $1.5M then, and a healthy Amendola is worth more than $1.5M now.

Injury concerns? You realize Amendola is one of the most associated players in the NFL with injury concerns? So that is not any difference.

 

[Brady6]

You shouldn't count past payments for future contracts. There really is no logic to doing that. You just end up with numbers that are bad both for the player and for the team.

I think it matters when you are talking about restructuring the current contract. Not if he was a UFA.

 

[Marinlik]

I think it matters when you are talking about restructuring the current contract. Not if he was a UFA.

Well it doesn't. You have to talk about what you could get from the saved cap space, either to replace him or spend on another position. That's what's important. Not how much he has been payed in the past.

 

[mgteich]

What I have read throughout the forum is the following:

No one is willing to make any concessions whatsoever on any impending unrestricted free agent while the New England Patriots are currently over the salary cap for the 2015 NFL Season.

Is this supposed to add any information to the discussion. I believe that the ONE necessary decision has been made. The patriots will NOT pay Revis $20M for 2015. The team will NOT pick up his bonus. If that is the case, Revis will be a free agent on March 10th if there is no new contract signed.

DO YOU AGREE that Revis is not being paid $20M?

If this is so, then $20M can be removed from the cap projections. And, under ANY predictions of the new cap, we would be significantly under. BTW, why are you discussing anything about the cap if you need to wait for an official statement from Kraft as to the numbers?

 

[Brady6]

Well it doesn't. You have to talk about what you could get from the saved cap space, either to replace him or spend on another position. That's what's important. Not how much he has been payed in the past.

Amendola's bonus was prorated over 5 years so if I pay him $1M and $500K roster bonus his cap hit is $2.7M. You don't think his signing bonus should be considered when restructuring the contract that he received the bonus for? I disagree completely.

 

[mgteich]

[QUOTE="Brady6, post: 4124076, member: 32717"

Injury concerns? You realize Amendola is one of the most associated players in the NFL with injury concerns? So that is not any difference.[/QUOTE]

No one but the giants would even look at Edelman because of injury concerns, even for a contract of under $1M in 2013. You seem to believe that Amendola is in the same situation in 2015. I disagree.

 

[Bruins29]

It is a joke, and an embarrassment to this board that we (me included) spend this much time on a player that means so little.

The irony here is just......ironic

 

[ATippett56]

Well it doesn't. You have to talk about what you could get from the saved cap space, either to replace him or spend on another position. That's what's important. Not how much he has been payed in the past.

Danny Amendola "post June 1" salary cap savings - $4.5 million

http://overthecap.com/explaining-the-june-1st-designation/

What does get me:

Shane Vereen
Wide Receiver 3rd Round - $563,750
Wide Receiver 6th Round - $466,279

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

In addition to the following wide receivers currently under contract:

Boyce
Dobson
Tyms

 

[mgteich]

Amendola's bonus was prorated over 5 years so if I pay him $1M and $500K roster bonus his cap hit is $2.7M. You don't think his signing bonus should be considered when restructuring the contract that he received the bonus for? I disagree completely.

Let's understand your analysis.

The patriots can pay Amendola $4.5M under his contract for his services or they can tear up his contract and sign a new contract with Amendola, if he is willing. That is the business decision that the patriots need to make.

What you are discussing is a negotiating ploy that you think that the patriots should use. Let us agree for a moment that Amendola's services on open market are worth $3M rather than the contracted $4.5M.

IN THIS SITUATION, your analysis tells us that Amendola should accept less than $3M, perhaps $1M because of the signing bonus he received two years ago. After all, taking $1M would be FAIR to the owners of the patriots. Amendola's average for the first 3 years of his contract would still mean that Amendola is being overpaid. Do I have your argument right?

Under these circumstances, I would expect an agent to recommend that Amendola refuse any offers that do not allow him to earn $3M (perhaps a bit less without incentives and more with incentives). Otherwise, i would expect the patriots to cut Amendola and for him to be playing somewhere else for much more than $1M (if his market value is $3M).
=============================

We do NOT know Amendola's market value. However, it is clear that offering significantly less than market value to Amendola should result in his being cut. The fact that the patriots will use his old bonus as a reason to justify the offer makes no business sense. In any case, there is no reason for Amendola to accept such a deal.

I am NOT ruling out Amendola playing for the patriots for a discount (perhaps with incentives). I just don't think his 2013 bonus will have any effect on the decision.

 

[ATippett56]

Is this supposed to add any information to the discussion. I believe that the ONE necessary decision has been made. The patriots will NOT pay Revis $20M for 2015. The team will NOT pick up his bonus. If that is the case, Revis will be a free agent on March 10th if there is no new contract signed.

DO YOU AGREE that Revis is not being paid $20M?

If this is so, then $20M can be removed from the cap projections. And, under ANY predictions of the new cap, we would be significantly under. BTW, why are you discussing anything about the cap if you need to wait for an official statement from Kraft as to the numbers?

No, I don't view Jerry Jones nor the NFLPA as a viable source for the 2015 NFL Salary Cap.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/01/29/nflpa-salary-cap-projection-2015/22559403/

Last year, for instance, the cap jumped from $123 million to a record $133 million – much higher than the league's original projections. The NFL management council informed teams last month the 2015 cap is expected to be $138.6 million to $141.8 million. The union disagrees and will issue its own projections before the NFL scouting combine begins Feb. 17, Smith said.

As for Darrelle Revis, you don't know whether the New England Patriots will renegotiate a new contract or not. If a new contract is negotiated, you don't know what the salary cap figure will be for the 2015 NFL Season, in addition to the $5 million signing bonus carried over from last season.