Concepts some posters could benefit from learning

[mb6592]

sure, tar and feather it is

cool, pink tar?

 

[makewayhomer]

I agree 100% and noted that Makewayhomers posts since he joined this board are both condescending and arrogant.

I now realize that he is the only one who stands to gain anything by my wager with him, so I'm going to withdraw my participation. The last thing I want to do is give more credance to an idiot!

ok. anybody else want to go head to head? pats-blue?

I mean, if you guys want to shut me up and prove how much of an idiot I am, this seems like a good way.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Of course I disagree that most stat guys are Type A, because there is no such thing as a Type A personality. The A/B/AB model is a long since obsolete model that has survived in popular culture only because it was adopted by HR consultants for business "team building" seminars.

The personality traits grouped into "Type A" don't correlate with one another any more than other, randomly selected, personality traits.

The huge generalizations you're making are entirely unfounded.

You're outta your mind if you don't think there are compulsive/obsessive/neat/organization/everything in it's proper place freaks. You must either be one of them in denial (I think you are!) or you're living in a capsule!

I know for a fact that I am unorganized and spur of the moment type. I don't like a regimented lifestyle and I don't fold my socks or have to check the locks on my door every night.

 

[PatriotsReign]

ok. anybody else want to go head to head? pats-blue?

I mean, if you guys want to shut me up and prove how much of an idiot I am, this seems like a good way.

Why haven't you answered my questions? In case you forgot, here they are again:

1. I'd seiously like you state for all of us here what your motive is on this board.

2. And please explain why you post as if you believe you are some sort of expert here, when you're just another "Bozo on the bus" like the rest of us.

 

[pats-blue]

here is what you don't understand this.

the first study found no evidence of clutch hitting. subsequent studies were able to find a little bit, or some evidence of clutch hitting, including one of the studies I linked to. this is what I have been saying all along, but you keep ignoring.

however, note 3 very important things:

1. neither study identifiied Yaz as a clutch hitter, in fact they both identified him at a choker
2. the ability to be a clutch hitter is a small one. the 2nd article quantifies it as perhaps a .285 hitter becoming a .300, but nothing like a .250 hitter becoming a .400 hitter. this is why they say that some previous studies had underestimated the ability, b/c most of them found even less evidence. but this does NOT mean that the ability is a large ones, it just means that it's more than they had ever found before
3. when the study was reran using more recent player data (1999-2003 iirc) there was no longer any statistical significance of the clutch hitting skill

How dense are you? I just used a DIRECT QUOTE from the 2004 study....

"I don't pretend to understand exactly what makes one player a clutch hitter and another a choker. The correlation with slugging average probably gives a good clue, but half the "skill" seems to be uncorrelated with any obvious batting stats. However, it does appear that clutch hitting exists and that its importance has been generally underestimated"

In what world does this support your position? So because the author can't figure out with stats what makes a player clutch? Because if it isn't in numbers it doesn't exist??? Could it be that some people handle pressure situations better?? Oh you mean it isn't a NUMBER? Yeah it isn't. I pointed out the Lt. Col Grossman book that discusses the effects of pressure and critical incidents on the human body. I don't know much about "stats" but I DO KNOW about the SNS effects on a human being, which besides skill to me is a DIRECT correlation of "clutch" Yet you ignore it or claim it matters little. The author is looking for an absolute certainty in his study and he says it is "unlikely" that a 285 hitter turns into a 400 hitter...who said "clutch" is jumping from a 285 to 400? He didn't even discount it. Why the complete difference in results of the two studies? I thought figures proved EVERYTHING? THey don't. If you have the same numbers if there wasn't BSinvolved they should have the SAME result..but they don't and you can't seem to accept that.

Also in the first study I quoted the "authors" PWA numbers and the FACT that he used that as the most important predicator of "clutch" an that Yaz had the second highest PWA in MLB in 1970. I am pointing out the pure ignorance of the author where he contridicts himself!

 

[makewayhomer]

Why haven't you answered my questions? In case you forgot, here they are again:

1. I'd seiously like you state for all of us here what your motive is on this board.

2. And please explain why you post as if you believe you are some sort of expert here, when you're just another "Bozo on the bus" like the rest of us.

I don't know what kind of answers you want dude.

1. I post here to discuss football and sports, just like everyone else.

2. there are a lot of dumb posters here, sorry, that's the way I feel. I'm smarter than these people. there are also lots of good posters here, I don't think I'm superior to these guys in any way.

 

[makewayhomer]

In what world does this support your position?

it's perfectly consistent with the position I posted in my OP. if you misunderstood, that's not my problem

 

[PatriotsReign]

I don't know what kind of answers you want dude.

1. I post here to discuss football and sports, just like everyone else.

2. there are a lot of dumb posters here, sorry, that's the way I feel. I'm smarter than these people. there are also lots of good posters here, I don't think I'm superior to these guys in any way.

"DUDE"...you don't act like you think you're just like everyone else and honestly, you're just not that smart.

You are not superior to anyone here. Like I said, you're just another bozo on the bus. The sooner you accept that, the more you'll feel a part of what it means to be a Patriots fan.

Intellegence or lack of means nothing. Of course you know none of us can ever be any better than the next guy...right?

 

[pats-blue]

ok. anybody else want to go head to head? pats-blue?

I mean, if you guys want to shut me up and prove how much of an idiot I am, this seems like a good way.

Here is what you dont understand. You are a geek who revels in stats...go play fantasy football. Or play with your numbers on your computer. Personally I enjoy watching the games and rooting for my team...the Pats..unlike your team which seems to be the colts by your "knowledge" of all things colts.

Stats have thier place to a point....but football is a sport played by humans and I am quite sure I know more about the effects of pressure and/or critical incidents on the human body and how it reacts than you will ever know. (first you were invloved in Div III football did you ever get in a game? What position did you play? I would be interested to test your "knowledge" of the actual play of the game in normal and pressure situations)

You also can't accept in any way shape or form that you are wrong or don't understand the totallity of the sport or what others have stated. You twist or ignore and feel everything "supports" your position when it clearly doesn't.

I will add the biggest thing is you tried to preach to us how "clutch" doesn't exisit in sports and the only thing you stuck to was baseball. You completely IGNORED anything that related to your football points in the pages and pages of posts because you have nothing. If you played football please explain how your "theory" applies and you will be ripped apart because you were talking out your ass simply put.

 

[makewayhomer]

Here is what you dont understand. You are a geek who revels in stats...go play fantasy football. Or play with your numbers on your computer. Personally I enjoy watching the games and rooting for my team...

personally, I like to do those things too.

I also enjoy the part of fan that goes beyond waving pom-poms.

that's the last personal attack I'll respond to.

if you want to discuss anything football or sports related or make a friendly wager on or football knowledge, let me know

 

[pats-blue]

it's perfectly consistent with the position I posted in my OP. if you misunderstood, that's not my problem

I know everthing will support your position. That is your personality. Keep preaching and stay ignorant! Let us know how your team is doing later and stop pretending to be a Pats fan...that is mature.

You don't talk football you talk about yourself you just don't realize it.

Gotta go pay more attention to football now that NE lost the MLS again....

Welcome to ingnore because you bring nothing to the table on a football board except a narcissistic personality.

 

[RayClay]

Edited for length, but well worth reading IMO. It seems to me the authors had trouble staying focused on what they were measuring.
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=631174&postcount=410

My intent was just to see if great player rise to the occasion in big games. Though the approach has it's faults (sample size) it is easy to understand a comparison, even without complicated math.

There's one game I did not include that one poster rightly mentioned as an example of Yaz not coming through in the clutch. Of course everyone expected him to and this one conspicuous at bat he popped out.

To be complete, I thought I should add this failure to his total "big game" performance. I have the box score here. I will say I think every at bat is crucial in the post season since the best pitchers are there and many games have only 1 or 2 runs total.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/box-scores/boxscore.php?boxid=197810020BOS


In his "failure" game he actually went 2 for 5 with two runs scored and 2 RBIs.

That's .400 at age 38.

So these are his "big game" totals. Looking at those home run and RBI totals makes me think I'm short changing him just using batting average.


1967 (two game pennant sweep) .875 1 HR 6 RBI

1967 W.S. .400 3 HR 5 RBI

1975 playoffs .455 with 1 HR and 2 RBI

1975 W.S. .310 4 RBI

1978 (one game Playoff ) .400 1 HR 2 RBI

Career postseason RBI totals work out to 153.9 RBIs and 48.6 HRs over a 162 game season.

He only hit more than 28 home runs 3 times in 23 years for comparison (44 in 1967 his best).

 

[gomezcat]

Makewayhomer, you might want to pay attention when people like pats-blue talk about people in pressure situations.

 

[gomezcat]

the head coach of your football fan happens to be very receptive to stats. go read Chris Gaspers new book

"The head coach of your football team happens to be very receptive to stats. Go and read Chris Gasper's new book."

I am less intelligent than you.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

You're outta your mind if you don't think there are compulsive/obsessive/neat/organization/everything in it's proper place freaks. You must either be one of them in denial (I think you are!) or you're living in a capsule!

I know for a fact that I am unorganized and spur of the moment type. I don't like a regimented lifestyle and I don't fold my socks or have to check the locks on my door every night.

I do all those things, too. I work freelance because I don't work well within an office environment. My socks aren't folded, either. In fact, most of my drawer is filled up with socks whose matches I can't find. Also, I'm scolded frequently by my landlady for not bolting the deadbolt behind me.

Of course, these are traits that I would all change about myself if I could. My compulsive sloppiness seems, to me, a worse impediment to my life than would be compulsive neatness. I wish I could convince myself that it's part of what makes me "spur of the moment" and all that, but I've long since learned that these things are separate traits, and are not connected in the way you imply.

My being a slob isn't what makes me "easy going" or a creative type or anything. My being a slob just makes my apartment messy. I know plenty of people who are as free-thinking and spontaneous as I am, who also manage to be neat, tidy people.

Oh, and also, I have a passing interest in stats, a good head for numbers, and an appreciation for the counterintuitive insights statistics provide. So far as I can tell, this is entirely unrelated to my personality as a whole.

 

[gomezcat]

I do all those things, too. I work freelance because I don't work well within an office environment. My socks aren't folded, either. In fact, most of my drawer is filled up with socks whose matches I can't find. Also, I'm scolded frequently by my landlady for not bolting the deadbolt behind me.

Of course, these are traits that I would all change about myself if I could. My compulsive sloppiness seems, to me, a worse impediment to my life than would be compulsive neatness. I wish I could convince myself that it's part of what makes me "spur of the moment" and all that, but I've long since learned that these things are separate traits, and are not connected in the way you imply.

My being a slob isn't what makes me "easy going" or a creative type or anything. My being a slob just makes my apartment messy. I know plenty of people who are as free-thinking and spontaneous as I am, who also manage to be neat, tidy people.

Oh, and also, I have a passing interest in stats, a good head for numbers, and an appreciation for the counterintuitive insights statistics provide. So far as I can tell, this is entirely unrelated to my personality as a whole.

As someone who is frantically cleaning up a LOT of mess before my girlfriend gets home, I can empathise.
I agree that stats have their place, but feel that there are too many things which they cannot measure. My beef with the originator of this thread is his tone.

 

[emoney_33]

It is not fear, it is utter DISLIKE of the personality type. Basically the type-A nerd trying to make himself feel a part of the football fan culture. The only ones willing to hang out and watch a game with them are other geeks...you know the type that likes to bring some stats to show their friends and maybe discuss some new Bill James insight at halftime.

They are loners.

Could you quit it with your damn condescending attitude, stereotypes and insults? YOU have added nothing but ignorance and insults. With your "I can't be wrong attitude", I'll bet I know some "nerds" that more people would WANT to watch a football game with than you. Seriously, get off your soap box.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Could you quit it with your damn condescending attitude, stereotypes and insults? YOU have added nothing but ignorance and insults. With your "I can't be wrong attitude", I'll bet I know some "nerds" that more people would WANT to watch a football game with than you. Seriously, get off your soap box.

That is because you're a stats geek and know more nerds than I do!

I'm just trying to make sure the fantasy league geeks don't mistake this board as their home

Listen kid, If you've followed this post, you'd see that the thread author, Makewayhomer has been with one with the pompous attitude and most of the other posters here have agreed with me.

Hey, I even stated "I'm sure most nerd-types wouldn't want to hang with me either"...so what's your beef?

Try re-reading the 100+ posts Makewayhomer has made in this thread and check out his attitude then you'll understand where my comments were being directed.

Does it actually bother you I don't mix well with the nerdy types? Just an FYI...it is ok NOT to like some people. Life isn't about liking everyone, it's about liking yourself!

 

[emoney_33]

That is because you're a stats geek and know more nerds than I do!

I'm just trying to make sure the fantasy league geeks don't mistake this board as their home

Listen kid, If you've followed this post, you'd see that the thread author, Makewayhomer has been with one with the pompous attitude and most of the other posters here have agreed with me.

Hey, I even stated "I'm sure most nerd-types wouldn't want to hang with me either"...so what's your beef?

Try re-reading the 100+ posts Makewayhomer has made in this thread and check out his attitude then you'll understand where my comments were being directed.

Does it actually bother you I don't mix well with the nerdy types? Just an FYI...it is ok NOT to like some people. Life isn't about liking everyone, it's about liking yourself!

I don't know you so no I don't really care who you get along with. I have followed the entire thread, makeway has not been nearly as condescending as you have. He hasn't been too ignorant aside from his "I'm smarter than a lot of people here" comment a page or two back.

You just called me a stats geek but have no clue whatsoever anything about me. You will never either, but continue on your assumptions, they only make an ass out of YOU in this case. You have proven to be ignorant, and your Type A personality rant is quite laughable. You seem to think anyone who knows mathematics has OCD.

And it is definitely OK to not like some people, but you are stereotyping people into a group, judging their personality, acting as though you are better than them....... BECAUSE THEY ARE "MATHEMATICALLY INCLINED"?

Come on man seriously. You really don't see how ignorant you are acting?

 

[Pat_Nasty]

I don't know you so no I don't really care who you get along with. I have followed the entire thread, makeway has not been nearly as condescending as you have. He hasn't been too ignorant aside from his "I'm smarter than a lot of people here" comment a page or two back.

You just called me a stats geek but have no clue whatsoever anything about me. You will never either, but continue on your assumptions, they only make an ass out of YOU in this case. You have proven to be ignorant, and your Type A personality rant is quite laughable. You seem to think anyone who knows mathematics has OCD.

And it is definitely OK to not like some people, but you are stereotyping people into a group, judging their personality, acting as though you are better than them....... BECAUSE THEY ARE "MATHEMATICALLY INCLINED"?

Come on man seriously. You really don't see how ignorant you are acting?

No, he really doesn't see. I took his lead, and checked out HIS post history the way he did makeway's, and noticed that he never talks about the blocking technique or zone schemes or any of the other "real football" stuff he was touting over stats, as though discussion of one was mutually exclusive with discussion of the other.

No, I just saw a lot of tough-guy posturing, a lot of pointless bravado and a tendency to resort to personal insults at the drop of a hat.