College Football Star Michael Sam Says He Is Gay; May Become First Publicly G...

[upstater1]

Co-ed dorm is not exactly having women changing clothes in front of the opposite sex.

Maybe it makes sense to "smash inhibitions" in the ivory tower you're from, but in the real world, it's ridiculous. I know women who don't change clothes in the locker room when it's all WOMEN. And it doesn't mean they think they're being ogled...just don't like getting naked in semi-public.

I wrote Co-Ed showers. Not dorms. Also, there are mixed use bathrooms.

Here's something else that would apparently blow everyone's mind: up until about 30 years ago, many towns and cities in Europe had outdoor urinals in town squares. Such as you might see nowadays at some outdoor concerts in the USA. I'm not sure if such urinals existed in the USA or not, but I bet they did.

 

[upstater1]

Har har! I'm speaking from having life experience and knowing women in general. I've never met any who'd think it'd be "no big deal" to get naked in a co-ed locker room. You must have no experience with women at all. Loser.

Boston U. 1980s. Co-Ed bathrooms. And showers. But, I can't say I ever saw anyone totally naked. Every morning I'd shower in a stall next to a woman, who invariably turned off the water and wrapped a blanket around her before walking into the open. A little different than being totally naked.

Here's the thing though. For those who use gyms and the like, we're showering naked all the time in front of other men. It just isn't a big deal.

 

[kennyb]

I think this is a changing norm, for both sexes. My father-in-law casually mentioned that when he was a kid, his public school swimming classes were sex-segregated...and naked. No fussing with swimsuits. When my husband and I were in public school that would have been unimaginable, but everybody took it for granted that we'd strip down in a locker room, use group showers, etc. Now my own kids are in middle school and they're appalled at that idea -- everybody huddles alone in little booths in the locker room.

Yes, I've heard that. But I always heard that the female swim classes were not naked. Male nudity wasn't a big deal.

So if "changing norms" means kids go from single sex shower rooms to being appalled at the idea, what makes you think they'd go for co-ed shower rooms? Sounds like it's going the other way, if anything.

 

[Ivan]

Give credit where credit is due, uncle meat has been making me laugh my ass off in this thread. First he acknowledges swinging both ways when he is drunk and then asks for a reacharound for 5$.


Given this my answer for Micheal Sam is to go to Buffalo............

 

[kennyb]

Boston U. 1980s. Co-Ed bathrooms. And showers. But, I can't say I ever saw anyone totally naked. Every morning I'd shower in a stall next to a woman, who invariably turned off the water and wrapped a blanket around her before walking into the open. A little different than being totally naked.

Here's the thing though. For those who use gyms and the like, we're showering naked all the time in front of other men. It just isn't a big deal.

Yes, I grew up in the era of open gym showers. That's not "the thing" cause that isn't what he was talking about. He was talking about co-ed shower/change rooms, where you'd get naked in front of the opposite sex. He said the idea that change rooms should be single sex was "outmoded".

I think most women would have a real problem with that. In fact, I don't know any who wouldn't.

So who is to say it's "outmoded" or "a societal norm". OK, so maybe it is a "societal norm"...who is to say it must be done away with? If the proleteriat don't see it as "outmoded", then why is it "outmoded"?

"The inhibitions of the proletariat must be smashed if we are to create our new utopia".

 

[primetime]

Yes, I've heard that. But I always heard that the female swim classes were not naked. Male nudity wasn't a big deal.

So if "changing norms" means kids go from single sex shower rooms to being appalled at the idea, what makes you think they'd go for co-ed shower rooms? Sounds like it's going the other way, if anything.

Middle schoolers aren't really a representative population. I probably would have been afraid to shower in a group shower room in middle school for about a million reasons but have no problem doing it as an adult, even if I would still prefer to shower in my own, personal shower. The latter isn't really an option for a football locker room, of course (boy, have we gotten far off-topic).

So who is to say it's "outmoded" or "a societal norm". OK, so maybe it is a "societal norm"...who is to say it must be done away with? If the proleteriat don't see it as "outmoded", then why is it "outmoded"?

It doesn't have to be, though this is a silly argument in that could easily have been made for segregation in the Jim Crow South, too - but this one is admittedly less burdensome by several magnitudes.

The argument was made in the context of Michael Sam being given his own locker room because he's an out gay man. The idea was that it's silly. If people are uncomfortable then it's because of their own learned fears and societal norms and it does not reflect on him.

 

[DW Toys]

Agreed. No need to make an announcement unless you REALLY want to call attention to yourself. I thought the same thing about Steve Buckley publicly coming out by devoting a whole column to it. Why make a personal matter everyone else's business?

Good post. Have to agree. Keep your mouth shut and just play ball. I do not need to know nor the public does not. It's a cry for attention. Is this a red badge of courage?

In my humble opinion, I prefer that not any children are exposed to this. This is an adult issue. Children are the future fans of the NFL. They watch football now as youngsters. They look up to young athletes. There is absolutely no reason they even need to know about this stuff now. He is throwing it out for them to see and hear and they will not understand. Don't want this preached in schools for my kids or family, politics or in the work place. Live your life. Leave other people alone about your "coming out" stuff*. Tell your dog or your best friend.

Regardless of how his family portrays this, you have to feel sorry for them. This is a family tragedy. We all know someone either family or friends that this has happened to and no one is happy regardless of the impression of how proud they all are.

Mock, hurt or ostracize those of gender confusion? No obviously, but do they really need to be the distraction they they feel they have to be? If you had three testicles would you want people to know without any doubt you had that deal going on? A coming out party for that? Sorry. No ask, no tell works for me.

*For all of you who are Christian as I, the ACLU and our wonderful Government has claimed it illegal to pray or have Christmas songs that might trend Christian beliefs in said schools or public places because it offends people of other ways of life. So they ban those things. Yet they force feed our children in grade school and the public the life style of those of gay and lesbian gender situations that might offend some of us in many religions and ways of life. But yet that is perfectly fine. If we told those of the Muslim religion they have to listen to the teachings of Judeo Christian ways of life and the GL mantra of "just deal with it" would be the battle cry there, then there would be more law suits than Government lies.....Just saying

If this kid can play ball...great. I don't need to know if he has three testicles or making love to other men.

DW Toys

 

[primetime]

Good post. Have to agree. Keep your mouth shut and just play ball. I do not need to know nor the public does not. It's a cry for attention. Is this a red badge of courage?

For many gay adolescents and teens, it's a potential lifesaver - literally. If "people with three testicles" were bullied, ostracized, harassed, and assaulted for being what they are then people with three testicles in the public light would have a duty to be out and vocal about it as well.

 

[JackBauer]

Regardless of how his family portrays this, you have to feel sorry for them. This is a family tragedy. We all know someone either family or friends that this has happened to and no one is happy regardless of the impression of how proud they all are.

Your entire post was unhinged, but, wow, are you serious with this tripe?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Where do people come up with this crap? Nobody hates the kid. There are people who don't approve of his lifestyle, for sure, but enough with the hate baloney. That's the same as saying that half the USA is heterophobic and hates straight people.

Back the truck up.

You're telling me out of 313.9 MILLION people, "nobody" hates the kid.

Are you ******* serious?

Of course somebody hates the kid. There are people who hate Tom Brady too (Jets fans). There are people who hate me. There are people who hate gay people so much they protest at funerals of war heroes. There are people who hate black people and yellow people and women and children. There are people who hate puppy dogs and ice cream and kittens and sunshine. There are over 5,000 hate crimes annually, and those are just the reported incidents.

We can argue about the severity of those emotions. We can argue about the exact number, and perhaps everyone who disagrees with his lifestyle doesn't necessarily hate him. But to say "nobody" hates them is absolutely, positively, 100% wrong.

This young man is going to deal with quite a lot of hate in the upcoming weeks, months, and years. And if you can't see that, I have no idea what you're looking at.

 

[upstater1]

Yes, I grew up in the era of open gym showers. That's not "the thing" cause that isn't what he was talking about. He was talking about co-ed shower/change rooms, where you'd get naked in front of the opposite sex. He said the idea that change rooms should be single sex was "outmoded".

I think most women would have a real problem with that. In fact, I don't know any who wouldn't.

So who is to say it's "outmoded" or "a societal norm". OK, so maybe it is a "societal norm"...who is to say it must be done away with? If the proleteriat don't see it as "outmoded", then why is it "outmoded"?

"The inhibitions of the proletariat must be smashed if we are to create our new utopia".

People get used to things. No one made a big deal out of the co-ed shower situation. The girls on my floor at Boston U. certainly didn't.

 

[Ivan]

Regardless of how his family portrays this, you have to feel sorry for them. This is a family tragedy. We all know someone either family or friends that this has happened to and no one is happy regardless of the impression of how proud they all are.

Hopefully they will get over it when he buys their new house for them?

 

[MassPats38]

Good post. Have to agree. Keep your mouth shut and just play ball. I do not need to know nor the public does not. It's a cry for attention. Is this a red badge of courage?

The original NY Times article makes it clear that he did it to get ahead of the rumors and innuendo he already had encountered prior to the draft. This is a basic PR approach. Do you let the stories spin out of control, or do you diffuse them with an anticipatory statement? He appears to have tried the latter.

The baseball steroids/PED stories are proof positive of this approach. Admit you used them briefly, and few remember the issue. Deny or refuse to answer questions, and face public scrutiny forever. Ask Tiger if he wishes he had just admitted to womanizing with the way that story blew up on him.

If he did this as self-promotion before he has even made a name for himself in the NFL, then I would consider it a poor tactical decision because it injects an extra layer of analysis into teams considering him. Outside coaching selection, I am unaware of any equal opportunity criteria in NFL player selections. It is purely physical ability to play the game.

 

[DW Toys]

Your entire post was unhinged, but, wow, are you serious with this tripe?

Fact Cousin. Yep I have family members although some not blood. It is no ask no tell here and we love those people to death, but we prefer that it is not in our family discussions at the diner table. If you don't have "family" of that persuasion, and you think I am unhinged (well possibly) you don't know how it is, but we never even want to bring it up, probe or question.

To say we do not have moral concerns would be a lie. Would it hurt us if they used gayness as a forum for self acclaim?....Yes.

DW Toys

 

[BradyFTW!]

Good post. Have to agree. Keep your mouth shut and just play ball. I do not need to know nor the public does not. It's a cry for attention. Is this a red badge of courage?

In my humble opinion, I prefer that not any children are exposed to this. This is an adult issue. Children are the future fans of the NFL. They watch football now as youngsters. They look up to young athletes. There is absolutely no reason they even need to know about this stuff now. He is throwing it out for them to see and hear and they will not understand. Don't want this preached in schools for my kids or family, politics or in the work place. Live your life. Leave other people alone about your "coming out" stuff*. Tell your dog or your best friend.

Regardless of how his family portrays this, you have to feel sorry for them. This is a family tragedy. We all know someone either family or friends that this has happened to and no one is happy regardless of the impression of how proud they all are.

Mock, hurt or ostracize those of gender confusion? No obviously, but do they really need to be the distraction they they feel they have to be? If you had three testicles would you want people to know without any doubt you had that deal going on? A coming out party for that? Sorry. No ask, no tell works for me.

*For all of you who are Christian as I, the ACLU and our wonderful Government has claimed it illegal to pray or have Christmas songs that might trend Christian beliefs in said schools or public places because it offends people of other ways of life. So they ban those things. Yet they force feed our children in grade school and the public the life style of those of gay and lesbian gender situations that might offend some of us in many religions and ways of life. But yet that is perfectly fine. If we told those of the Muslim religion they have to listen to the teachings of Judeo Christian ways of life and the GL mantra of "just deal with it" would be the battle cry there, then there would be more law suits than Government lies.....Just saying

If this kid can play ball...great. I don't need to know if he has three testicles or making love to other men.

DW Toys

I don't even care to get into the rest of the ignorant nonsense that you posted, but the bolded portion is just objectively wrong. Lots of us have openly gay members of our families, and I can assure you that we feel no shame or 'tragedy' about it. Maybe you can't fathom being proud of someone for being secure in who they are despite being constantly told that they shouldn't be, but your views don't reflect on the rest of us who are actually living in the 21st century.

And please, for once, stop trying to excuse your bigotry as sincere religious belief. The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin in exactly the same way that cutting your facial hair and wearing clothes of multiple fabrics are. Your incredibly selective memory re: the Old Testament betrays your homophobia. You're a bigot, plain and simple.

 

[Ring 6]

Good post. Have to agree. Keep your mouth shut and just play ball. I do not need to know nor the public does not. It's a cry for attention. Is this a red badge of courage?

In my humble opinion, I prefer that not any children are exposed to this. This is an adult issue. Children are the future fans of the NFL. They watch football now as youngsters. They look up to young athletes. There is absolutely no reason they even need to know about this stuff now. He is throwing it out for them to see and hear and they will not understand. Don't want this preached in schools for my kids or family, politics or in the work place. Live your life. Leave other people alone about your "coming out" stuff*. Tell your dog or your best friend.

Regardless of how his family portrays this, you have to feel sorry for them. This is a family tragedy. We all know someone either family or friends that this has happened to and no one is happy regardless of the impression of how proud they all are.

Mock, hurt or ostracize those of gender confusion? No obviously, but do they really need to be the distraction they they feel they have to be? If you had three testicles would you want people to know without any doubt you had that deal going on? A coming out party for that? Sorry. No ask, no tell works for me.

*For all of you who are Christian as I, the ACLU and our wonderful Government has claimed it illegal to pray or have Christmas songs that might trend Christian beliefs in said schools or public places because it offends people of other ways of life. So they ban those things. Yet they force feed our children in grade school and the public the life style of those of gay and lesbian gender situations that might offend some of us in many religions and ways of life. But yet that is perfectly fine. If we told those of the Muslim religion they have to listen to the teachings of Judeo Christian ways of life and the GL mantra of "just deal with it" would be the battle cry there, then there would be more law suits than Government lies.....Just saying

If this kid can play ball...great. I don't need to know if he has three testicles or making love to other men.

DW Toys

It must be difficult for you to share the planet with all these people you think you are better than.

 

[DW Toys]

Hopefully they will get over it when he buys their new house for them?

Good point. Even Whitey Bulger made fiends when he bought things for people if you want to look at it sarcastically. People look the other way and I hope he does share with his loved ones.
DW Toys

 

[Ring 6]

Fact Cousin. Yep I have family members although some not blood. It is no ask no tell here and we love those people to death, but we prefer that it is not in our family discussions at the diner table. If you don't have "family" of that persuasion, and you think I am unhinged (well possibly) you don't know how it is, but we never even want to bring it up, probe or question.

To say we do not have moral concerns would be a lie. Would it hurt us if they used gayness as a forum for self acclaim?....Yes.

DW Toys

On the day that you realize you are making those family members feel worthless, flawed and unaccepted because of who they are, I sincerely hope you apologize to them.
I also hope you never meet my children.

 

[DW Toys]

It must be difficult for you to share the planet with all these people you think you are better than.

No in fact Andy. Never said that nor was it ever intended to be that way. I am a sinner. I am sure much worse than you. There was only one perfect person. I say live and let live but don't pound your chest to gain attention to yourself if it is not necessary.

Andy, Did you need to know Sam was gay?

Did I? Nope

DW Toys (a huge sinner and least of all perfect)

 

[JackBauer]

Fact Cousin. Yep I have family members although some not blood. It is no ask no tell here and we love those people to death, but we prefer that it is not in our family discussions at the diner table. If you don't have "family" of that persuasion, and you think I am unhinged (well possibly) you don't know how it is, but we never even want to bring it up, probe or question.

To say we do not have moral concerns would be a lie. Would it hurt us if they used gayness as a forum for self acclaim?....Yes.

DW Toys

I don't know what half of this is supposed to mean, and you and your family are certainly entitled to their views (however anachronistic they may be), but how can you, knowing nothing about Sam personally or his family, call this a tragedy? In fact, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts this revelation (assuming they didn't already know, which is unlikely) probably won't change their views of him one whit. I know I've had friends who I never suspected come out and I was plenty happy for them. If your views of a person shift that substantially based on something relatively trivial like their sexual orientation, that's probably a reflection of your own deep-seated issues.