CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Month

[nekromantique]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

It's also not fair to say that without this trade, we wouldn't have Dennard. He was picked with the 224th pick in the draft. There's a good chance he would have gone undrafted if the Pats didn't take him.

which means practically anyone could have signed him. which means there would have been no guarantee he would be on the pats roster.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

Why does it matter? We wouldn't have taken Hayward with that pick anyway.

 

[LiveShot]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

 

[Claremonster]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

It's easy to play virtual GM. But, in real life...

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

What really pisses me off about that trade is that Cleveland later sends 67 to Denver for 87 & 120.
Bill traded with Denver for Hightower during the first round, so it's not like he didn't know their
phone number. GB took him to the cleaners on that one.

And for the hundreth time, dam the Fat Albert & OchoStinko trades; they handcuffed Bill during
this year's draft, and they'll handcuff him during next year's draft too. We warned him...

The draft is such a massively complex thing that it's unreasonable to break it down so simply. For all we know, BB did call Denver and got refused because they felt their guy would get to them, and then there was a run on players they had similarly-ranked so they got desperate a few picks later. Or maybe they heard some rumblings about their guy afterwards that made them jump.

Sometimes you can offer more than fair value for a spot but a team won't budge because of all sorts of other reasons. This isn't like Madden, and the draft isn't done solely by using the draft value chart and whenever a value trade matches up on the chart, you can press a button and say OK. Look at the Mallett selection.

BB practically shopped that pick on TV by leaking it well in advance of the selection to see if there were any takers. If someone called with a reasonable offer, he would have traded out. If a team wanted Mallett and thought he would slip, this was his way of changing their blood pressure in the decision process. Maybe we did get calls but not with the kind of offers we wanted. I don't know. But the point is simply that each pick is not made in a vacuum; there are a ton of other factors going on, and even a pick a few rounds before might trigger a butterfly effect causing a run on a position no one anticipated. 32 teams value hundreds of players in different ways depending on scheme and value against their different rosters, yet we're going to break it down simply as Cleveland got better value for a pick so they are smarter than us?

As for being handcuffed by the Ocho and Fat Albert trades, sure, that was a factor. But every decision carries a risk factor, and you can't just look at when it doesn't work and point out the negative. A 5th and 6th-round pick for the chance of a 1,000-yard receiver isn't a huge gamble. A 5th-round pick for the chance of a Pro Bowl-caliber DT isn't either. The odds of drafting someone who could give you that type of output in those rounds is probably the same, if not lower.

It was a low-risk trade with high-reward potential. We've done it numerous times. The 2007 draft was handcuffed by the trading of picks for a washed-up Randy Moss and some undrafted punt returner who never broke 700 yards receiving in Wes Welker.

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. But if you only look at one side of the equation, you're eventually going to conclude that nothing works. You can't draft, you can't trade, you can't sign free agents, because every single one of those items carries a risk of failure, and based on looking only at failures, it adds up to failure 100% of the time.

 

[captain stone]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

Perhaps it was indeed Denver's fault for not accepting 62 from Bill instead of 67 from Cleveland;
but there was no way whatsoever I would have traded any draft picks at all for Stinko & Fat Albert.
If the Bungles & Deadskins had released them, then I would have offered nothing but the vet minimum
for either of them.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

The draft is a crap shoot at best..

 

[Rob0729]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

I hate these Monday Morning QBing on drafts. I mean Jets fans can say they could have had Chandler Jones over Quinten Coples. It is two month into this rookies class' career. Let's hold back the rage and excitement.

After his first year, people on this board were comparing McCourty to Revis. Now half this board look at him as a draft bust. Personally I think both sentiments are/were wrong.

I am sure the same will be said about many rookies that people are either high or low on at this point in the season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

FWIW, I find it interesting that in 2007, after making a complete mess of the WR position, BB went out and loaded up on WRs.

Then, in 2010, after having the worst TE unit in the NFL, he arguably brought in the best TE unit of all time.

He tried to do that this year with the secondary, but things haven't worked quite as well as we'd like.

 

[Banjo]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

I'll say it: Green Bay is better at drafting than the Pats are.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

And the pony in this thread is?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

Perhaps it was indeed Denver's fault for not accepting 62 from Bill instead of 67 from Cleveland;
but there was no way whatsoever I would have traded any draft picks at all for Stinko & Fat Albert.
If the Bungles & Deadskins had released them, then I would have offered nothing but the vet minimum
for either of them.

I don't know. Maybe we botched it too I'm just saying, it's incredibly complicated, and it's unfair to look at one single pick independent of all other factors. And even blaming the trades for Ocho and Fat Albert isn't the whole truth about how our draft went.

If we hadn't traded up for Jones and Hightower, we would have had much more flexibility to move around on the second day. But looking at how things have turned out, are we really complaining?

I'm just saying it's unfair to look at one or two things in isolation and draw any conclusions from them. If we watch TB throw for 300 yards and 3 TDs but look at one or two of his incompletions only, he had a crappy day.

FWIW, I find it interesting that in 2007, after making a complete mess of the WR position, BB went out and loaded up on WRs.

Then, in 2010, after having the worst TE unit in the NFL, he arguably brought in the best TE unit of all time.

He tried to do that this year with the secondary, but things haven't worked quite as well as we'd like.

Well it certainly isn't for a lack of trying Even with the TEs, it took a few attempts as we spent 1sts on Graham and Watson.

I do like the Talib trade, and I also think injuries have played a bigger part in the secondary mess than most realize. I think patfanken was on the mark about Chung being in the wrong spot due to Gregory's injury, and the trickle-down effect it's had on the secondary.

I'll say it: Green Bay is better at drafting than the Pats are.

Maybe. They're a very good organization and Thompson has done a great job with the picks he's had.

But I think a lot of Pats fans also look at it with rose-coloured glasses because of the picks they made after trades with us. The Greg Jennings deal is always brought up, but people forget the Packers drafted Daryn Colledge 5 picks before Jennings. Do you think that would happen if they really knew how good Jennings would be?

As for the One-That-Got-Away, Matthews has been a very good fit for their system. I still don't think he fits ours, but no matter, it was a pretty even trade when you work it all out: Matthews and Jamon Meredith for basically Gronkowski, Edelman, and a few busted seasons of Butler and Tate. Some might prefer the GB side, but I'd hardly call it a decisive victory either way.

Thompson has done a great job and deserves a ton of credit. But our guy is pretty good too, and I think over a decade of success has spoiled a lot of fans.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: CB that GB selected with the Pats 2nd Round Pick named Defensive Rookie of the Mo

I'll say it: Green Bay is better at drafting than the Pats are.

What are you basing your claim on?